SpicyTurkey Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Did Republicans campaign on "elect us, and we'll speed things up and have the government do more", or "elect us, and we'll stop Obama from doing any more damage?"They campaigned against government involvement, and against the things Obama did pass - the ACA, the stimulus, etc. Spinning that into voters electing the GOP because they didn't think the government was activist enough is standing reality on its head.Little did they know that the republicans like to intervene as much as the next democrat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C S Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Did Republicans campaign on "elect us, and we'll speed things up and have the government do more", or "elect us, and we'll stop Obama from doing any more damage?"They campaigned against government involvement, and against the things Obama did pass - the ACA, the stimulus, etc. Spinning that into voters electing the GOP because they didn't think the government was activist enough is standing reality on its head.Really, to be more specific, their campaign was pretty much "Where are the jobs, stop the job killing stimulus, stop job killing Obamacare, and, uh, oh yeah, where are the jobs? Interesting that a majority, when polled about the individual aspects of ACA (excluding the mandate) without identifying the program by name, were for them. I believe the same is true when people were polled about aspects of the stimulus without identifying it as such. I could be wrong about the stimulus cause I'm going by memory and can't find a link that indicates either way. I think it was more about jobs or perceived insufficient increase thereof.Edited because appropriately placed commas are a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Except the polls didn't show that people wanted Obama to do more. The single biggest issue was opposition to his signature achievement -- the ACA.You're still trotting this old horse out?The polls tell the story. The ACA was opposed by a majority, thanks to the full brunt of the Republican message machine combined with Citizens United's unprecedented cash flow into the races. But what you so often ignore is the fact that most of the ACA's individual elements polled very favorably.So yes, the Republicans won that war. You guys really put a hurting on Obama. Really showed him up good!That was 2010, though. This is 2012. The tide of public opinion is turning to a more favorable viewing of the ACA, even the mandate:"For the first time since passage of the Affordable Care Act, aka Obamacare, polling reveals that more Americans support the requirement that all Americans purchase health insurance than those who oppose the measure.In a new CNN poll conducted during the period of November 11-13, 52 percent of those surveyed indicated that they now favor the mandate. This is a 6 percent rise in support since the question was last put to the public by a poll in June of this year and the first time those in favor have moved into the majority column."A six percent increase in just five months. All indications that it will only continue to rise?Might be time to take that old horse out back and put it out of it's misery.Plus, you seem to have forgotten that both parties seem to be selling the same story. Obama was saying "these damn Republicans have stopped me from doing more", and the Republicans were saying "vote for us, and we'll stop him." There was no dispute over the Republicans trying to obstruct Obama. In fact, both parties agreed that's exactly what the election was about. The feds should be doing more, or Obama should be stopped. And we know how they voted.Yes, we know how a majority of 37.8% of the country voted. We also know 34% of that number were aged 60 or older; or as they're also sometimes called: the Fox News viewership. Edited to add, because I almost forgot: your Fox News viewership may stay mis-informed (though as the link above says, "the increased support can be found primarily among low-income and older Americans", but the independents get their news from other places and those places show the truth of the matter. Can't lie about the stimulus anymore and say it didn't do anything. Can't lie about Obamacare. Well, I mean you can. But everyone will just point and laugh at you.If you want to do the "well, it was just a referendum on the economy" argument, that applies equally to every election, including the one that put Obama in power.You're correct. Every election is to an extent a referendum on the economy. 2008, however, was also a referendum on Republicans sucking. And the consesus was yes, they did.Don't worry, though. I expect that after Obama trounces you guys in November, you'll have your day in the sun again in 2014. You can really show that damn Obama good one more time before he leaves office!this is what i have to say to this. Hey, you found a clip! Good for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slayer420 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 If the ACA is so good why does Obama never talk about it? If it was so great he would be braging about it everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 He does talk about it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slayer420 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Very little. Not like he talks about killing Osama. I mean why isn't he campaigning on it. I gave you health care, I will give you more great programs like Obamacare. This is one of the biggest thing he did. Yet he doesn’t speak like he is very proud of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Very little. Not like he talks about killing Osama. I mean why isn't he campaigning on it. I gave you health care, I will give you more great programs like Obamacare. This is one of the biggest thing he did. Yet he doesn’t speak like he is very proud of it.Why would he want to give us programs like Obamacare? He gave us Obamacare. And what could possibly constitute "like Obamacare"?Maybe when the ACA starts to break down a little, which conveniently leads to a full single-payer debate. But I expect it will be President Clinton dealing with that matter.ETA: Besides, there are other more recent significant victories to crow about, and the big topic of the moment is jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Very little. Not like he talks about killing Osama. I mean why isn't he campaigning on it. I gave you health care, I will give you more great programs like Obamacare. This is one of the biggest thing he did. Yet he doesn’t speak like he is very proud of it.Because it is unpopular with a relatively large segment of the population. HERP-DERP SOCIULISMS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slayer420 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 That was the point I was making, they were saying the house did not change because of the ACA. Flow and I were arguing that it was the reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 That was the point I was making, they were saying the house did not change because of the ACA. Flow and I were arguing that it was the reason.Who is saying it wasn't a primary reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 That was the point I was making, they were saying the house did not change because of the ACA. Flow and I were arguing that it was the reason. I would mostly side with you in that argument. I believe that The Tea Party gained most of its' momentum from ACA and Stimulus spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I would mostly side with you in that argument. I believe that The Tea Party gained most of its' momentum from ACA and Stimulus spending.I don't think you'll find anyone who disagrees with that. It's the way the GOP Machine used to get that momentum that galls me. Call me naive, but I was surprised that outright lies could be so easily spread and maintained in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I don't think you'll find anyone who disagrees with that. It's the way the GOP Machine used to get that momentum that galls me.Call me naive, but I was surprised that outright lies could be so easily spread and maintained in this day and age. Agreed. The Faux News Machine is loud and shiny and has blonde hair and large breasts. Death Panels and Secret Muslims FTW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Jesus, the Midterm is easy. Midterms have very low voter turnout.So if you can get a core group energized and out to vote, you can get large swings.The GOP managed this by telling people Obama was going to destroy Medicare and raise your taxes (ie - by flat out lying).To say this was a swing in the electorates feelings is ridiculous because a huge chunk of the electorate didn't even show up to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Very little. Not like he talks about killing Osama. I mean why isn't he campaigning on it. I gave you health care, I will give you more great programs like Obamacare. This is one of the biggest thing he did. Yet he doesn’t speak like he is very proud of it.He is campaigning on it. Again, he speaks about it fairly frequently.Unless by "he doesn't talk about it", you really meant "he didn't mention it last night". Which is true. Because that was about what he wants to be done in the future and to avoid anything controversial.It's the SOTU. It's a carefully crafted political message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord O' Bones Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 The 70s were not known for social conservatism, you know. Tons of people experimented with drugs, and yet, here we are, with an incomprehensibly stupid set of drug laws. Maybe the ones who did the experiments on drugs and free love all died early or became beach bums who don't vote? Who knows. But I certainly can't square some of the social policies we see now with the liberation of the 60s and 70s. It seems more likely to me that despite what people believe in during their 20s, many of them change their views as they get older.I feel like many people went a bit overboard with the drug use and free love and then "snapped out of it" and made a shit pile of money after the fact.Three things that haven't really happened since the 90's. Free love is dangerous now. Hardly anyone is making shit piles of money. And drug use has split off into so many directions it's hard to keep track.ETA: I guess what I'm saying is that the political progression of the populace by decade just isn't comparable if you're trying to compare 20 year old's in the 70's to 20 year old's now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slayer420 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 .Does anyone on here really believe it would be a good idea to raise cap gains to 30%, seems to me that would kill investment and drive it over seas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinDonner Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Overseas where the taxes are... so much lower?? Corporations barely pay the taxes they are due now. Raising the nominal rate is unlikely to do much unless they start closing some damn loopholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slayer420 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 How I understand it Cap gains is the tax on the return on investments. It is now at 15%. Obama wants to raise it to 30%. This is the money that people risk in the stock market and other investments. Anytime anyone invested there taking a chance in losing there money. So if you raise it, there less likely to invest in anything in America and take the money overseas. This would make it the highest in the world I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinDonner Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 How I understand it Cap gains is the tax on the return on investments. It is now at 15%. Obama wants to raise it to 30%. This is the money that people risk in the stock market and other investments. Anytime anyone invested there taking a chance in losing there money. So if you raise it, there less likely to invest in anything in America and take the money overseas. This would make it the highest in the world I thinkTwo seconds of research would suggest otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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