Issue with the "three heads of the dragon"

[VaramyrSixchins]

That's a good question. I definitely agree that both Aemon and Rhaegar were well aware of the prophecies. At this point, I think it's very possible that they did have an interest in Lightbringer and that we just don't know about it. Or perhaps Rhaegar interpreted Lightbringer metaphorically, like many people here on the boards. PtwP = Lightbringer? Dragons = Lightbringer? Just don't know, really. Now, though, I'm wondering if Rhaegar had any special thoughts about his friend Arthur's sword. It's a popular candidate for Lightbringer, though I'm not sold on it.

Again, good questions. I'm not ruling it out either, but if Rhaegar was interpreting the three heads of the dragon as three Targaryen siblings, I'm just wondering where more prophesied dragons came from. The only possibility I see is Daeron's dream, but it's unclear to me if Aemon and Rhaegar viewed that as just another iteration of the original prophecy, in which case the "return of the dragons" would be the same as the "three heads of the dragon." Then again, if they were viewed as separate prophecies foretelling different dragons, it would leave room for both interpretations: dragons=dragons and dragons=Targaryens.

So I'd say it is very possible that they planned to hatch three eggs. It would definitely answer the awkward question of what the three heads were actually supposed to do, and it'd be a better parallel with Aegon the Conqueror and his sisters, which seem to have been quite significant to Rhaegar. Do we know if the Targaryens had any dragon eggs in their possession at the time?

I simply can't recall if they had eggs or not. If they didn't, it kind of punches a hole in the idea that they interpreted the prophecy as dragon hatching, lol. Though, I do think it's telling that Aemon specifically cites the existence of literal dragons as proof of Dany being AA...

[IamShane]

New theory. Wylla Manderly is Rhaenys or another daughter of Rhaegar (Visenya maybe?), left in White Harbor by Ned Stark when he had Jon.

Supporting facts. 1. It would be cool. 2.She dyes her light hair green, just like Aegon. 3. Ages are about right.

Maybe another child will pop up and we'll have the three heads Aegon and his sisters, Rhaenys and Visenya. Just like the original conquerors.

[TheLostStark]

Also if he was naming he's children after the original aegon and sisters why would he have named Jon "Jon", rather than a male equivalent to visenya, not that I doubt r+l=j but kind of interesting.

There was a historical King Jon Stark of the north, I believe he even says that he was his namesake.

What about the idea that Dani is the dragon and her dragons are the 3 heads??

[King of Winters]

Also if he was naming he's children after the original aegon and sisters why would he have named Jon "Jon", rather than a male equivalent to visenya, not that I doubt r+l=j but kind of interesting.

If Rhaegar had survived he'd have probably called Jon Viserys. But because Ned raised him he called him Jon.

[AznCruiser]

My theory is that the three dragon riders' birth MUST have resulted in the death of their mother. Dany's mother died in her birth, Jon's (if its true) mother also died in his birth.

I cant think of the third rider, but do think that the character whose mother died during their birth would be the third and final rider. The only one I can think of Gendry (since I cant remember if his mother died or not during childbirth).

[IRON BANK]

The three Dragon riders are more than likely Dany, Tyrion, and Jon---Dany is already proven, Jon has a warging ability, and Tyrion has been reading about Dragons for a long time, primed and ready to go.

[ArabellaVidal]

If Rhaegar had survived he'd have probably called Jon Viserys. But because Ned raised him he called him Jon.

Rhaegar already had a brother called Viserys.

[Techelles]

Rhaegar already had a brother called Viserys.

...and why can't a kid have the same name as his uncle?

[Faint]

I've wondered for some time now if that is a hint that Viserion will be Jon's dragon, given that its name is derived from the name he probably would have been given by his father.

[lady m]

I've wondered for some time now if that is a hint that Viserion will be Jon's dragon, given that its name is derived from the name he probably would have been given by his father.

Viserion is also a mama's boy, something Jon has longed for.

[TheLostStark]

I think the three headed dragon is over thought. Dany is the Dragon. Her dragons are her three heads. Sometimes the simplest answers is the right ont.

[Walder Waters]

I like the idea of three crowns.

Don't know if I had already posted it in this thread, I did so in a thread in AFFC subforum, but if the three heads are rather persons than crowns I think Arianne possible.

Often people try to find a male person as the third head. But y is that? Ok, if Dany would be an aquivalent to Aegon I it does make sense. It is possible that the third head is female though. Maybe it is a second bride to Jon.

Thinking about the history of Dorne... in the end of the story there has to be factor that binds Dorne to the Seven Kingdoms. They had been independent for longer than any other kingdom and may have still an ambition to seperate. It is crackpot, but hey, y not say Arianne?! She is a princess and she once was promised to a Targ (ha, so she is a promised-princess too ;) ) and she wants a husband with teeth (direwolf!).

Pro: has Targaryen blood

Contra: no hints to her existence before AFFC

[MissingNo]

All three of the dragons do the fusion dance...

Prophecy fulfilled!

[mrlukeduke]

The thing is, most of this discussion includes great ideas that could all fit. Which is why personally I don't think it means exclusively people OR actual dragons, OR land masses OR ... etc. I think it alludes to all of them. Same for "heads": crowns, parents, houses? All. This is simply how GRRM writes. He's a master of symbolism, metaphor, allegory and subterfuge.

Let's looks at just a few examples of "three" related to "dragons":

• Daenerys, Viserys, Rhaego
  
• Daenerys, Jon, Aegon (surviving "dragons")
  
• Rhaegar, Elia, Lyanna (parental "heads" to various "dragons")
  
• Dorne, "Six" Kingdoms, the North (uniting/sandwiching crucial "outer" regions [ice and fire?!])
  
• Rhaenys, Aegon, Rhaego (three "trueborn" and/or "dead" dragons)
  
• Fire/Sun/Summer, Ice/Moon/Winter, Earth (balance, seasons)
  
• R'hllor, Other, Old Gods
  
• South, North, Beyond the Wall (core land masses)
  
• Jon Snow will have three "heads" (crowns: North, Westeros, KBtW)
  
• Jon has three growth "identities" (Black/Bastard/Snow, Lord Commander/Stark, King/Targaryen)
  
• [And/or the dreaded Night's King!]
  
• First Men, Andals, Targaryens
  
• Rhaegar, Viserys, Daenerys (sons, daughter)
  
• Targaryen, Baratheon, Blackfyre (houses)
  
• Blood, Ebony, Weirwood (magic symbols)
  
• Viserion, Rhaegal and Drogon (three literal dragons!)
  
• Need I go on?!
  

Of course it depends a lot on not only multiple competing translations of the given assumptions/facts, but also whether one believes the book narrative to begin with, for example, Aegon's true identity. Yet, another way to look at it still, is that even the "lies" end up in interesting threes, and it's all part of the riddle (Sphinx)! There are various "threes within threes" that I won't even bother to explore here as it would increase the list to maybe 50+ items!

So this is why I've been more quiet on these types of prophecies and yet interested in all the wonderful interpretations. I think that trying to say it's one or the other misses the point and diminishes the beauty of the text: it's a bit like 'Rhaegar's rubies'. It doesn't matter how many were originally on his breastplate! What matters is that the text says six were retrieved, seven are prophesied. The meaning of rubies and numbers in the books has mythical/historic significance, double or even triple entendres written into it, and heavy symbolism.

For example: dragon can mean at minimum 'Targaryen person', 'Targaryen bloodline', or 'flying fire-breathing lizard' simultaneously. (Eek, another "three"!). Think about it though; lots of wiggle room. There are even some who think it doesn't even have to include a Targaryen at all (e.g. dragon-rider theories).

Anyway, sorry to ramble on. Please do feel free to add in other "three heads" interpretations?!

[mrlukeduke]

If you want to get really wild, one can even suppose that it works as a 3x3 prophecy, for example (there are many combinations and variations):

Daenerys: (1) Fire (2) Rider (3) Queen (Essos, Dorne, Fire?) [One]

Aegon: (1) Black "fyre" (2) Ruler (3) King (Westeros?) [Two]

Jon: (1) Ice & Fire (2) Skinchanger (3) King (North? Winter?) [Three]

Three within three. In this poetic interpretation the sphinx is the 3x3 riddle. It means the three heads are a rider, a ruler and a restorer/uniter. It works thus: Dany rides the dragon(s), Jon wargs it/them, Aegon maintains political control. This might be problematic aesthetically if only because there are three literal dragons too. But it could simply add more layers of three; just I prefer a simpler 3x3, not a 3x3x3 (although that has a nice symmetry to it also, especially when you get reeeeally deep into dragon appearance/colour, spirits "within" dragons, who's "controlling" Jon/Dani/Aegon politically and why (e.g. Varys), etc!).

The sphinx would simply mean that the answer to the riddle lies in a warg and/or multiple combined houses (I think skinchanger, as the symbolic sphinx is a literal therianthrope). Whoever that is, it completes the three heads in some way or another.

Caution: Do NOT smoke weed while reading this post.

[mrlukeduke]

Update: 'Tini' just reminded me here about another triad connection; Azor Ahai, The Prince That Was Promised, and the Last Hero.

Nice! Can't believe I omitted that one. Maybe I should make a new thread, especially because I want to find out if there are three magic swords for each of the "three heads" to carry (e.g. Lightbringer, Dawn, Oathkeeper).

[King of Winters]

Update: 'Tini' just reminded me here about another triad connection; Azor Ahai, The Prince That Was Promised, and the Last Hero.

Nice! Can't believe I omitted that one. Maybe I should make a new thread, especially because I want to find out if there are three magic swords for each of the "three heads" to carry (e.g. Lightbringer, Dawn, Oathkeeper).

The problem with that though is GRRM confirmed that AAR and TPTWP are the same person in The Religions of Westeros video where he says that when Stannis burns The Seven Idols, Mels sees that R'hllor, in return, will give him a gift as "his role as The Prince That Was Promised".

[mrlukeduke]

Ah, interesting. Both in that he confirmed AA/TPtwP (and Last Hero?) are the same person/legend, and also that he still included three legends seeing as they refer to the same "thing". I doubt, if it refers to three individuals, he'd have said though, because it would have given the game away too obviously. What do you think though?

[King of Winters]

Ah, interesting. Both in that he said AA/TPtwP are the same person, and also that he still included the two legends around it anyway.

If it's the same person/thing as the dragon with three heads it works as a triad anyway, but not very smoothly.

EDIT: also, while he may mean that these two terms refer to the same individual, it may still be that there are multiple individuals (e.g. three heads) and each is (1) AA (2) TPtwP and (3) one of the dragon heads.

Or, (1) AA/TPtwP (2) the Last Hero and (3) a dragon head. :bang:

I mostly think that they're three titles for the person who defeated The Others the first time. AA is what the R'hollor followerers call him, LH is what the First Men call him and maybe TPTWP was what the Valyrians called him. They're just different versions of the same man to one particular culture.

And the person that is AAR/TPTWP/LH helps support the theory that the three headed dragon is one person with three aspects and identities to them.

[mrlukeduke]

Yes I agree – interesting. I just add a caveat that it can be interpreted as applying to three people (this time around).