A bag of fingerbones

[Eyron]

Well, if Mel does use the fingerbones to glamor up a new Davos, he will truly seem reborn. Being dead to the world and all ;)

She could devote herself to a new AAR project. Sorry Stannis, I have a better candidate, he is actually reborn, not figuratively like you. Note to self- reborn- CHECK

[jarl the climber]

Well the weird thing about this is that Melisandre burned Lord Sunglass and two other men who tried to protect the Sept on Dragonstone during or right after the Blackwater battle, its not clear why she did this. We know that Davos woke up on his little rock with his bag of fingerbones gone next to a swollen corpse. His last memories were of being underwater drowning but when he is talking to Salla Saan in the next chapter he tells him that he swum under the the chain and to the rock which is unusual because it contradicts his inner monolougue and is the only instance in the book where he lies. My theory is that the disappaerance of his bone bag and Mels burning these men, the deaths of his sons, and his own survival are tied together somehow but I don't know if we will ever get the truth about it. For all we know the swollen corpse was the real Davos and the new one is an illusion given form by his fingerbones and sustained by his faith and the sacrifice of his sons and the men who tried to defend the sept on Dragonstone.

[Fire Eater]

Melisandre:

These bones help. The bones remember. The strongest glamors are built of such things. A dead man's boots, a hank of hair, a bag of fingerbones.

That quote hits too close to the mark. Melisandre will use his bag of fingerbones to create a glamor of Davos on someone who will not disagree with her and follow her agenda. She benefits from having a Hand who isn't set against her.

[Francis Buck]

Though interesting, this strikes me as the kind of thing GRRM might throw in just to fuck around. And it's not hard to believe that Mel would just mention it off-hand (no pun intended), having been around a dude that carries around a bag of finger bones a lot (which ain't exactly commonplace, even for Westeros).

If there is something to it, then she had to swipe them before the Blackwater, and if so, I don't think we've seen the effects it yet.

[Fire Eater]

If there is something to it, then she had to swipe them before the Blackwater.

She could have used her magic to bring them to her and have them wash up on the shore of Dragonstone.

I don't think we've seen the effects it yet.

But maybe we will later in TWoW or ADoS.

[Francis Buck]

She could have used her magic to bring them to her and have them wash up on the shore of Dragonstone.

The only thing is, it's unlike Martin to have a character use a form of magic we haven't seen before in-order to serve some type of major plot purpose. If anything, it's totally against his "rules" as a writer. Even the resurrection of Catelyn was set up with Beric, or even further back, the Others in the very first chapter of AGoT (in other words, we know resurrection is possible in this universe...what the hell did Mel do to get some finger-bones out of the ocean? Telekinesis?).

That being said, I'm not 100% against this idea as a whole. But to me it would just be really, really, silly for Mel to have somehow gotten the bones post-Blackwater. The only explanation is, as you said, some as-of-yet-unheard-of magical powers by Mel, which is a really lame and unnecessary plot device.

Also, the fact that Davos wears the damn things around his fucking neck at all times makes even the swipe idea seem really tough to pull off. Like I said, this just seems like something where Martin was writing the scene and decided to throw it in there because it's not illogical, and would make people do exactly what we're doing right now.

[7V3N]

Mel switched the real fingerbones with fakes. She then probably acted as Davos in some occasions to persuade Stannis. Davos lost the fake fingerbones at the Blackwater.

[Fire Eater]

Mel switched the real fingerbones with fakes. She then probably acted as Davos in some occasions to persuade Stannis. Davos lost the fake fingerbones at the Blackwater.

She could have switched them while he was sleeping, he wouldn't exactly bring them to bed.

I don't think she glamored herself as Davos(yet) as far as I know, though it's still a possibility.

[Gravey]

A dead mans boot's, a hank of hair, a bag of fingerbones.

I know the 2 bolded things have been seen in the books, has anyone been wandering around with a lock of hair?

I'm thinking she most likely saw the things in a vision, she is repeating what she saw. Mel knows Davos had his fingerbones, wouldn't know about Arya and the boots, and I can't think of anyone with some hair.

[Black Walder]

That being said, I'm not 100% against this idea as a whole. But to me it would just be really, really, silly for Mel to have somehow gotten the bones post-Blackwater. The only explanation is, as you said, some as-of-yet-unheard-of magical powers by Mel, which is a really lame and unnecessary plot device.

I'm not really backing the theory (though it does open up the possibility of Davos getting his fingers back, which would appeal to me), but it's inaccurate to say that the only explanation is new magic powers for Mel. What if the bag washed up somewhere and she saw the location in the fire?

[hotweaselsoup]

I know the 2 bolded things have been seen in the books, has anyone been wandering around with a lock of hair?

I'm thinking she most likely saw the things in a vision, she is repeating what she saw. Mel knows Davos had his fingerbones, wouldn't know about Arya and the boots, and I can't think of anyone with some hair.

I think Melisandre has a hank of Ygritte's hair, which she took off some wildling when she questioned them after the battle.

[Gravey]

I think Melisandre has a hank of Ygritte's hair, which she took off some wildling when she questioned them after the battle.

Thats... really interesting. I have only read through once, is this something you noticed (apart from Mel appearing as Ygritte for a moment to Jon), or just a theory?

[hotweaselsoup]

Thats... really interesting. I have only read through once, is this something you noticed (apart from Mel appearing as Ygritte for a moment to Jon), or just a theory?

Theory, based on her momentary appearance to Jon/Ghost as Ygritte.

[Jadiecat]

"'The bones help,' said Melisandre. 'The bones remember. The strongest glamors are built of such things. A dead man's boots, a hank of hair, a bag of fingerbones. With whispered words and prayer, a man's shadow can be drawn forth from such and draped about another like a cloak. The wearer's essence does not change, only his seeming.'" -- Melisandre I

This is a quote from the end of Melisandre's chapter from ADWD after she reveals to Jon that Rattleshirt is actually Mance in glamor. It's interesting that she specifically uses a bag of fingerbones as a description of appropriate glamors. Why would she say that? The only person in the entire series that had a bag of fingerbones, is Davos who lost his. Is it possible that Melisandre could have recovered them? If so does she intend to make a Davos glamor?

I'm probably grasping at straws here, but very strange phrasing IMO.

Like!

You set me to wondering about all the other body parts that are kicking around, and how they might come in to play.

I've been racking my brain (as did Tyrion) over Illyrio's motivation to put Dany and Griff on the throne--he is intensely emotionally involved, he's put in long and enormous effort as well as treasure.

He has money. He has everything he needs, he's not especially power hungry. The only thing he can't have is Sera back.

I have a sense that he thinks Dany and Griff in power will lead to some outcome in which he will have access to the magic needed to bring Sera back from the dead.

Using her hand, that he keeps in his bedroom. Just for this purpose, I'm thinking. A different sort of magic. (Body parts may be multifunctional).

Anyway, I've gone far afield. I think it's quite an interesting idea that Mel may in fact have Davos's finger bag.

I wonder if Varys has held onto his balls? Does anybody have "Reek's" little Reek? Jaime's hand? What other body parts are out there to cause potential mischief in the right magical hands?

[Reyne]

By the same token, the other two items she lists also are mentioned in the book.

A dead man's boots - Janos Slynt's, taken after he was executed.

A hank of hair - Varamyr collected these from the women he bedded; he mentions in the prologue that he had to leave them behind while fleeing the battle.

[Gravey]

@ Hotweaselsoup

I really like that theory, and when I do my reread I'll pay close attention.

@Reyne

I was actually thinking of the guy Arya killed, She takes his boots back to the man she was doing the work for. So thats 2 sets of boots, both from night watch men.

I don't recall about Varamyr's hair collection, but again - very interesting.

[Fire Eater]

Melisandre may have used a glamor of Ygritte as one step of seduction. By taking the guise of a former lover, Mel attempts to make Jon more open towards copulation with her.

[Black Walder]

Melisandre may have use a glamor of Ygritte as one step of seduction. By taking the guise of a former lover, Mel attempts to make Jon more open towards copulation with her.

Fo' sho. Evoking my greatest heartbreak at the same time as my greatest feelings of guilt over matters of life and death always gives me a woody...

[hotweaselsoup]

Fo' sho. Evoking my greatest heartbreak at the same time as my greatest feelings of guilt over matters of life and death always gives me a woody...

LOL

Yet don't you think that Melisandre is ham-fisted enough to try it?

[Black Walder]

Yet don't you think that Melisandre is ham-fisted enough to try it?

Eh, I wouldn't put it entirely past her, given her track record, but I think she's lacking a motive to seduce him as long as she thinks he's some schmoe without king's blood in him, and that she's enough of a fanatic to try to do it by prevailing on him with the rightness of her cause rather than a crude sexual come-on, like she probably did with Stannis. IMHO she evokes Ygritte to troll him for a reaction, put him off-guard, etc.