The Wise Man's Fear VIII

[thistlepong]

But I still think whatever alchemy exists points to some significant deaths in book three. Anyone still curious about the alchemical stuff?

I kind of thought you'd enjoy his answer to the alchemy question.

[Ninefingers]

My favorite (most thought provoking) question:

What’s the significance of wearing rings on the right vs the left hand?

There are clues to this in the books themselves.

More I will not say.

[lanceschaubert]

I kind of thought you'd enjoy his answer to the alchemy question.

Yeah, I loved it. I loved it for several reasons.

1. I didn't ask the question, someone else did, haha. In fact, I didn't even know they were taking questions at Tor. However, when I read that, I laughed and laughed. Especially since I care more about Felurian's Meter and the language and the story than the symbolism, not that you could tell by the time I spent on the alchemical stuff.
   
2. I realized halfway through that I was going about it the wrong way. I was taking what people had done in lit (Dickens, Shakespeare, etc), taking Burkhardt and Lindy and newcomers to the alchemy stuff from Yale and Harvard and superimposing them on Kingkiller. What I SHOULD have done was start with every mention of Alchemy in the books and work from there. That's when I stopped my reread. I remembered: holy crap, that's not how we do interp. We start with the easy passages in a given work and use them to interpret the more obscure ones like the bit about the trefoil. Got too excited about the nigreddo/albedo tropes that I missed the forest for the trees.
   
   I don't have a digital copy of either book to make this easy, but I would be FASCINATED if someone wanted to search through and list out every instance of alchemy. If that were to happen, I might hit the reset button. But only on here. My site's not first and foremost a Rothfuss site or even a fantasy site, it's a site for pastimes and reflection and opinions on lit or film or whatever. Spent way to much time on my site with Rothfuss stuff as is, fun as it was.
   
3. That's what Sim's always telling Kvothe--"you know nothing about Alchemy." My thoughts were always ( a ) Rothfuss knows nothing about Alchemy and is just using it as this abstract wing of his magic system, he nods his head to it when he needs a magical plot device, ( b ) Rothfuss does know about his system of Alchemy, knows that mentioning it as a magic thing will throw off those who interpret alchemical lit and intentionally used it to throw a wrench in the study of his books, ( c ) Rothfuss is using Alchemy to critique Alchemy like he uses story to critique story. Ironically with story, right about the time he says, "This is normally the part in the story where the main character runs into an old sage, but that doesn't happen in this story," Kvothe runs into an old sage anyway who tells an old story about Lanre or whatever.
   
   I figure if he's subverting Alchemy with alchemy, then he probably still relies on the alchemical arc itself. It is a three part story still, the first book still breaks down Kvothe (nigreddo), the second teaches him lessons (albedo), the third will rely on those lessons and people will die for an overall event/point/symbol of kingkilling (or King, killing). Those are all alchemical things, whether intended or not. I still think he's doing something with it, though what I can't say. At this point, yes, I feel like Kvote--when it comes to Rothfuss, I know nothing about Alchemy. But as I said in the disclaimer, I'm a learner not a teacher. Any suggestions are appreciated.
   

Sorry for the length, didn't have time to edit it down. In summary, anyone wanting to list out the uses of Alchemy, it might actually turn up something neat. I'd do it, but I only have the physical books. It's been fun anyway.

As always, enjoy your stuff Thistle. I submit to your superior novel-combing.

[jumbles]

Given what I think the Cthaeh is, I view what it does as naming. But I suppose the whole Selitos thing isn't necessary. Your name on a large enough scale of understanding would include all you've done and all you'll do, or more precisely what you'll do as a result of what it says to you.

I would argue that to know all someone would do, one would have to know all that will happen to you, and for that the Names of everything would have to be known. And only Aleph is said to know all Names .... wait a minute .... ALEPH IS THE CTHAEH! Which means Tehlu and his angels work for the Cthaeh!

(yes, this is a joke)

(unless someone thinks it's a good idea)

[jumbles]

I don't have a digital copy of either book to make this easy, but I would be FASCINATED if someone wanted to search through and list out every instance of alchemy. If that were to happen, I might hit the reset button.

In summary, anyone wanting to list out the uses of Alchemy, it might actually turn up something neat. I'd do it, but I only have the physical books. It's been fun anyway.

I searched for instances of alchem, Mandrag, and crucible:

NotWc1

It was made of roah, a rare, heavy wood, dark as coal and smooth as polished glass. Prized by perfumers and alchemists, a piece the size of your thumb was easily worth gold. To have a chest made of it went far beyond extravagance.

NotWc3

It looked as if an alchemist had distilled a dozen swords, and when the crucible had cooled this was lying in the bottom: a sword in its pure form. It was slender and graceful. It was deadly as a sharp stone beneath swift water.

NotWc9

ABENTHY WAS THE FIRST arcanist I ever met, a strange, exciting figure to a young boy. He was knowledgeable in all the sciences: botany, astronomy, psychology, anatomy, alchemy, geology, chemistry.. ..

He was portly, with twinkling eyes that moved quickly from one thing to another. He had a strip of dark grey hair running around the back of his head, but (and this is what I remember most about him) no eyebrows. Rather, he had them, but they were in a perpetual state of regrowing from being burned off in the course of his alchemical pursuits. It made him look surprised and quizzical all at once.

"The people you see riding with caravans—charmers who keep food from spoiling, dowsers, fortune-tellers, toad eaters—aren't real arcanists any more than all traveling performers are Edema Ruh. They might know a little alchemy, a little sympathy, a little medicine." He shook his head. "But they're not arcanists."

NotWc14

He halted my fledgling study of alchemy, limiting me to chemistry instead.

NotWc36

Master Lorren blinked once, expressionless. "Master Mandrag?"

Mandrag was clean-shaven and smooth-faced, with hands stained a half hundred different colors and seemed to be made all of knuckle and bone. "If you needed phosphorus where would you get it?"

His tone sounded for a moment so much like Abenthy's that I forgot myself and spoke without thinking.

"An apothecary?" One of the masters on the other side of the table chuckled and I bit my too-quick tongue.

He gave me a faint smile, and I drew a faint breath. "Barring access to an apothecary."

"I could render it from urine," I said quickly. "Given a kiln and enough time."

"How much would you need to gain two ounces pure?" He cracked his knuckles absentmindedly.

I paused to consider, as this was a new question too. "At least forty gallons, Master Mandrag, depending on the quality of the material."

NotWc37

"It is. A lot," Sovoy said sarcastically. "And for no good reason. I answered their questions. This is a grudge, plain and simple. Mandrag does not like me. Neither does Hemme. Besides, everyone knows they squeeze the nobility twice as hard as you lot, bleeding us dry as stones."

Notwc40

"Master Alchemist," said Mandrag.

Elxa Dal, Kilvin, and Arwyl raised their hands at once, followed by the Chancellor. Mandrag kept his hand down, as did Lorren, Brandeur, and Hemme. Elodin grinned at me cheerily, but did not raise his hand.

NotWc41

Wilem pointed out a few more notable buildings, including several good taverns, the alchemy complex, the Cealdish laundry, and both the sanctioned and unsanctioned brothels.

NotWc43

"The point is," Manet said seriously, "you don't want to cross him. Back in his first year here, one of the alchemists got on Ambrose's bad side. Ambrose bought his debt from the moneylender in Imre. When the fellow couldn't pay, they clapped him into debtor's prison."

NotWc44

"How did that work out with Mandrag?" Wilem said with a rare smile.

Sovoy gave Wilem a dark look. "Mandrag is a horse's ass."

"What about Mandrag? I've got a lot of experience with chemistry. It'd be a small step into alchemy."

Simmon laughed. "Everyone thinks chemistry and alchemy are so similar, but they're really not. They're not even related. They just happen to live in the same house."

"Besides," Simmon said. "Mandrag brought in about twenty new E'lir last term. I heard him complaining about how crowded things were."

NotWc56

"... it up to him and say, No hard feelings about that time in the Crucible when you mixed my salts and I was nearly blind for a day. No. No really, drink up! Ha!" Simmon laughed, lost in his own vengeful fantasy.

NotWc61

Then, the night before fall term began, Wil, Sim, and I posted them on every flat surface we could find on both sides of the river. We used a lovely alchemical adhesive Simmon had cooked up for the occasion. The stuff went on like paint, then dried clear as glass and hard as steel. If anyone wanted to remove the posts, they'd need a hammer and chisel.

NotWc71

Artificers have a great love for lodenstone. Alchemists too.

NotWc77

"Back before modern mining people probably hunted them for their iron. Even nowadays I'm guessing an alchemist would pay a pretty penny for the scales or bones. Organic iron is a real rarity. They could probably do all sorts of things with it."

NotWc82

And the scales and bones. Hundreds of pounds of denatured iron that alchemists would have fought over. . . .

NotWc85

"All in favor?" the Chancellor said wearily. Hemme raised his hand, as did Brandeur, Mandrag, and Lorren. "Five and a half to four: grievance stands."

WMFc4

The alchemy complex produced its own marvels that I was only dimly aware of, as well as raw materials like naphtha, sulfurjack, and twicelime.

Still, I didn't have a lot of options. "I guess I'll do lamps then," I said. Jaxim nodded and opened the ledger. I began to recite what I needed from memory. "I'll need twenty medium raw emitters. Two sets of the tall moldings. A diamond stylus. A tenten glass. Two medium crucibles. Four ounces of tin. Six ounces of fine-steel. Two ounces of nickel ..."

WMFc5

The bizarre alchemical compounds were the truly frightening things. There were transporting agents that would move through your skin without a leaving a mark, then quietly eat the calcuim out of your bones. Others would simply lurk in your body, doing nothing for months until you started to bleed from your gums and lose your hair. The things they produced in Alchemy Complex made arsenic look like sugar in your tea.

WMFc6

I went past the Crucible, its countless bristling chimneys dark and largely smokeless against the moonlit sky. Even at night it smelled of ammonia and charred flowers, acid and alcohol: a thousand mingled scents that had seeped into the stone of the building over the centuries.

WMFc7

Sim nodded calmly and sat on the edge of his bed, facing me. "Okay, you know when someone's been drinking, and they get it into their head to do something stupid? And you can't talk them out of it even though it's obviously a bad idea?"

I laughed. "Like when you wanted to go talk to that harper girl outside the Eolian and threw up on her horse?"

He nodded. "Exactly like that. There's something an alchemist can make that does the same thing, but it's much more extreme."

Simmon nodded. "It's a terrifying piece of alchemy. It's a variation of a sedative called a plum bob. You don't even have to ingest it. It's absorbed straight through the skin."

Sim gave a weak smile. "Mandrag lectures about it in every alchemy class he teaches. I've heard the story a dozen times by now. It's his favorite example of how alchemy can be abused. An alchemist used it to ruin the lives of several government officials in Atur about fifty years ago. He only got caught because a countess ran amok in the middle of a wedding, killed a dozen folk and—"

Sim stopped, shaking his head. "Anyway. It was bad. Bad enough that the alchemist's mistress turned him over to the guards."

Simmon looked nervous. "I don't think so. They might try a purgative, but it's not as if there's a drug working through him. Alchemy doesn't work like that. He's under the influence of unbound principles. You can't flush those out the way you'd try to get rid of mercury or ophalum."

WMFc9

"Good enough for me," Dal said. "Master Alchemist?"

Mandrag waved a mottled hand dismissively. "I'll pass."

"He's good with questions about spades," Elodin suggested.

Mandrag frowned at Elodin. "Master Archivist."

WMFc10

"I should start something new, I guess," I said casually. "I'll need a small crucible. Three ounces of tin. Two ounces of bronze. Four ounces of silver. A spool of fine gold wire. A copper—"

"Is this copy of Malcaf new?" I asked.

"It is," she said walking over to stand beside me. "A young alchemist who couldn't settle his debt let me pick through his library in order to square things between us." Devi carefully pulled the book from the shelf, revealing Vision and Revision in gold leaf on the cover. She looked up at me, grinning impishly. "Have you read it?"

WMFc12

"I expect someone is trying to get me into trouble," I said. Compared to dosing me with an alchemical poison, spreading rumors was practically genteel behavior for Ambrose.

WMFc14

The acquisitions office, for example, was tiny and perpetually dark. Through the window I could see that one entire wall of the office was nothing but a huge map with cities and roads marked in such detail that it looked like a snarled loom. The map was covered in a layer of clear alchemical lacquer, and there were notes written at various points in red grease pencil, detailing rumors of desirable books and the last known positions of the various acquisition teams.

WMFc18

"There are other arts," I said. "Sim does alchemy, for example."

"Sounds a damn sight easier than alchemy," Simmon said. "I'd rather do that than spend all day unbinding principles."

WMFc23

"It could be a lingering effect from the plum bob," Sim said grimly. "Ambrose isn't much of an alchemist. And from what I understand, one of the main ingredients is lead. If he factored it himself, some latent principles could be affecting your system. Did you eat or drink anything different today?"

"I like it," Sim said. "But it's practically a nostrum all by itself. There's a lot of different tincturing going on in there. Nothing alchemical, but you've got nutmeg, thyme, clove—all manner of spices. Could be that one of them triggered some of the free principles lurking in your system."

WMFc25

"When you were an E'lir," I continued. "You were suspended for two terms on charges of Wrongful Apprehension. Two years later, you were fined and suspended again for Misuse of University Equipment in the Crucible. I've heard Jamison knows the sort of business you do, but he's paid to turn a blind eye. I don't believe the last one, by the way."

"They fined me the full twenty talents and suspended me two terms," Sleat said grimly. "And that was only some Re'lar-level alchemy. It will be worse with you if this is El'the-level stuff."

"All the masters have private libraries," Fela said matter-of-factly. "I know some alchemy so I help spot books with formulae Mandrag wouldn't want in the wrong hands. Scrivs who know sygaldry do the same for Kilvin."

WMFc26

Devi shook her head. "No. I've got some nice alchemical texts though. Stuff you'd never find in your precious Archives." Bitterness was thick in her voice when she said the last word.

"It's funny you should mention alchemy," I said as calmly as possible. "Have you ever heard of something called a plum bob?"

"No thanks," I said. "I don't do much alchemy."

WMFc31 The Crucible

It was with a light heart that I visited Simmon in the alchemy complex.

"Okay," Sim said, exasperated. "You need to shut up and listen. This is alchemy. You know nothing about alchemy."

"Say it, then. Say, 'I know nothing about alchemy.' "

"Alchemy isn't just chemistry with some extra bits," he said. "That means if you don't listen to me, you'll jump to your own conclusions and be dead wrong. Dead and wrong."

"Things," Simmon said testily. "It breaks down into complicated things you can't understand because you don't know anything about alchemy."

Sim's eyes narrowed. He picked up an empty crucible. "Fine," he said. "Fill this up then."

I splashed some water into the crucible and brought it back to Sim. He dipped the tip of his finger into it, swirled it around, and poured it into the hot iron pan. Thick orange flame roared up, burning three feet high until it flickered and died. Sim set down the empty crucible with a slight click and looked at me gravely. "Say it."

I looked down at my feet. "I know nothing about alchemy."

WMFc33

Before we could head out, Sim handed me a small jar. I gave it an odd look. I already had his alchemical concoction tucked away in my cloak.

Wil dealt another hand of breath. I picked up my cards carefully, as Simmon's alchemical concoction made my fingers ever so slightly sticky. We might as well have been playing with blank cards. I drew and threw randomly, pretending to concentrate on the game when really I was waiting, listening.

WMFc38

I looked up at the stars, tracing the familiar constellations in my head. Ewan the hunter, the crucible, the young-again mother, the fire-tongued fox, the broken tower....

WMFc39

"And so Sim ends up at the University," Wilem finished. "His father was hoping he would become a diplomat. Then Sim discovered he liked alchemy and poetry and entered the Arcanum. His father was not entirely pleased." Wilem gave me a significant look and I gathered he was drastically understating the case.

WMFc40

Arcanum training does unnatural things to students' minds. The most notable of these unnatural things is the ability to do what most people call magic and we call sympathy, sygaldry, alchemy, naming, and the like.

WMFc42

"What's more," I said, meeting her eye. "It is entirely possible that my irrational behavior might have been partially due to the lingering effect of an alchemical poison I was subjected to earlier this term."

WMFc43

"Only through skill in naming did students move through the ranks. An alchemist without any skill in naming was regarded as a sad thing, no more respected than a cook. Sympathy was invented here, but a sympathist without any naming might as well be a carriage driver. An artificer with no names behind his work was little more than a cobbler or a smith."

WMFc49

"Once there was a learned arcanist. He knew all of sympathy and sygaldry and alchemy. He had ten dozen names tucked neatly into his head, spoke eight languages, and had exemplary penmanship. Really, the only thing that kept him from being a master was poor timing and a certain lack of social grace."

WMFc62

Caudicus had a respectable library, with nearly a hundred books crowding for space. I recognized many of the titles. Some were chemical references. Some were alchemical. Others dealt with the natural sciences, herbology, physiology, bestiology. The vast majority seemed to be historical in nature.

I watched him go through his preparations again. It wasn't alchemy. I knew that from watching Simmon work. This was barely even chemistry. Mixing a medicine like this was closer to following a recipe than anything. But what were the ingredients?

WMFc87

After six or seven solid drinks, there is very little difference between a miller on the outs with his wife and a young alchemist who's done poorly on his exams.

WMFc142

I caused a bit of a stir when I stepped into the circle of light in front of the masters' table. They had heard the news and were surprised to see me alive, most of them pleasantly so. Kilvin demanded I report to the workshop soon, while Mandrag, Dal, and Arwyl argued over which courses of study I would pursue. Elodin merely waved at me, the only one apparently unimpressed by my miraculous return from the dead. After a minute of congenial chaos, the Chancellor got things back under control and started my interview. I answered Dal's questions easily enough, and Kilvin's. But I fumbled my cipher with Brandeur, then had to admit I simply didn't know the answer to Mandrag's question about sublimation.

WMFc143

It was different than the arrowcatch I'd made. The one I'd constructed was built from scratch and rather rough around the edges. This one was smooth and sleek. All the pieces fit together snugly, and it was covered in a thin layer of clear alchemical enamel that would protect it from rain and rust.

Devi approached the desk wearing a dubious expression, then sat down and unwrapped the parcel. Inside was the copy of Celum Tinture I'd stolen from Caudicus' library. Not a particularly rare book, but a useful resource for an alchemist exiled from the Archives. Not that I knew anything about alchemy, of course.

WMFc146

Second came my failure in advanced chemistry, taken under Mandrag's giller, Anisat. While the material fascinated me, I did not get along with Anisat himself.

As a result, barely two span into the term we ended up shouting at each other in the middle of the Crucible while thirty students looked on, openmouthed with dismay.

WMFc150

And, to make a painful story short, Hemme was appointed Chancellor. After the shock wore off, it was easy to see why. Kilvin, Arwyl, and Lorren were too busy to take up the extra duties. The same could be said for Mandrag and Dal to a lesser extent. That left Elodin, Brandeur, and Hemme.

[lanceschaubert]

I searched for instances of alchem, Mandrag, and crucible:

Holy crap that's a lot, but that's an amazing starting place. Thanks so much, jumbles. I'll see if I can't sift through them this weekend and post some preliminary thoughts for the community to veto or back as they see fit.

[lanceschaubert]

Apologies ahead of time for length...

sorry, it wouldn't let me quote this many...

NotWc1

It was made of roah, a rare, heavy wood, dark as coal and smooth as polished glass. Prized by perfumers and alchemists, a piece the size of your thumb was easily worth gold. To have a chest made of it went far beyond extravagance.

Obviously a reference to the whole Opus Alchemicum here. Gold is the point of the great work, so to say that tiny piece was worth gold, to have a chest of it is extravagance is to say that the chest itself is gold. We already know this, but the symbolism affirms it. The point of the series is in the chest.

NotWc3

It looked as if an alchemist had distilled a dozen swords, and when the crucible had cooled this was lying in the bottom: a sword in its pure form. It was slender and graceful. It was deadly as a sharp stone beneath swift water.

Dissolve and coagulate, that’s the main mantra. Distillation is one of the processes on the coagulation side, so we’re not just dealing with any sword for any Adem here. We’re dealing with a sword of swords, the distillation of swords, the very essence of sword-dom. That could be a reference to the type of sword, like a Hattori Hanzo, but the name of the sword seems to indicate an irony: folly. I’d be interested to see the list of names attached to the sword again and see if those interact with any of the bits of history we’ve pieced together.

NotWc9

ABENTHY WAS THE FIRST arcanist I ever met, a strange, exciting figure to a young boy. He was knowledgeable in all the sciences: botany, astronomy, psychology, anatomy, alchemy, geology, chemistry.. ..

He was portly, with twinkling eyes that moved quickly from one thing to another. He had a strip of dark grey hair running around the back of his head, but (and this is what I remember most about him) no eyebrows. Rather, he had them, but they were in a perpetual state of regrowing from being burned off in the course of his alchemical pursuits. It made him look surprised and quizzical all at once.

"The people you see riding with caravans—charmers who keep food from spoiling, dowsers, fortune-tellers, toad eaters—aren't real arcanists any more than all traveling performers are Edema Ruh. They might know a little alchemy, a little sympathy, a little medicine." He shook his head. "But they're not arcanists."

Okay, so Abenthy’s important as the first alchemist he meets, duh. I like the eyebrows the best, it’s more quirky than anything, but the perpetual state of being burned off is exactly where Kvothe is. Surprised and quizzical. Ignorant yet curiously impulsive. I like the distinction, though, between two-bit archanists and real arcanists. A real arcanist, regardless of naming or sygaldry, seems to be defined as one who has mastered sympathy (which we know, and Kvothe does), medicine (which we see, and Kvothe does) and alchemy, (which we know nothing about and neither does Kvothe).

NotWc14

He halted my fledgling study of alchemy, limiting me to chemistry instead.

Halted the science of the cosmos and the soul, the science of almagamating the elements for playing with test tubes and iron fillings.

NotWc36

Master Lorren blinked once, expressionless. "Master Mandrag?"

Mandrag was clean-shaven and smooth-faced, with hands stained a half hundred different colors and seemed to be made all of knuckle and bone. "If you needed phosphorus where would you get it?"

His tone sounded for a moment so much like Abenthy's that I forgot myself and spoke without thinking.

"An apothecary?" One of the masters on the other side of the table chuckled and I bit my too-quick tongue.

He gave me a faint smile, and I drew a faint breath. "Barring access to an apothecary."

"I could render it from urine," I said quickly. "Given a kiln and enough time."

"How much would you need to gain two ounces pure?" He cracked his knuckles absentmindedly.

I paused to consider, as this was a new question too. "At least forty gallons, Master Mandrag, depending on the quality of the material."

Hands of knuckle and bone like Death? Half a hundred different colors like the peacock test? The urine thing has always gotten me. For one, it shows that Rothfuss does more than freaking dabble in alchemy. He knows urine was highly important—as important to the process as salt or iron or tin. He didn’t pick that up from one of his plumber beta readers. He picked that up from studying the craft itself. This reads like one of his obscure hints and I’d be interested either (1) with who takes a piss (half-kidding) (2) apothecaries (3) kilns (4) sewers, or somewhere else where there would be forty gallons of urine. That’s all assuming this rather charming hint as to the inherent ironies of alchemy (pulling phosphorus from urine, pulling gold from lead, pulling souls from bodies, etc.) is more than just a historical reference point to show he’s done his homework.

NotWc37

"It is. A lot," Sovoy said sarcastically. "And for no good reason. I answered their questions. This is a grudge, plain and simple. Mandrag does not like me. Neither does Hemme. Besides, everyone knows they squeeze the nobility twice as hard as you lot, bleeding us dry as stones."

Where else does Sovoy show up? Why would Mandrag not like him? Hemme’s a shoe-in. Hemme gets pissed at anyone who hurts his ego in any form. But

why Mandrag? Rothfuss said in the Tor.com thing, “Seriously though. This isn’t Hogwarts. The University isn’t out scouring the land for magical orphans so it can give them magic cloaks and rooms full of money. The question you should be asking is, ‘Why would the University want to go out of their way to let students in who aren’t rich?’ To put it frankly, what’s in it for them? Not much.” OR seemingly not much. What could be in it for them? Or rather, if nothing’s in it for them, then why would they do it anyway? They gave money to Kvothe, something that seems unprecedented. Why?

Notwc40

"Master Alchemist," said Mandrag.

Elxa Dal, Kilvin, and Arwyl raised their hands at once, followed by the Chancellor. Mandrag kept his hand down, as did Lorren, Brandeur, and Hemme. Elodin grinned at me cheerily, but did not raise his hand.

Mandrag, Lorren, Brandeur and Hemme. Also Elodin who just joined up a couple years prior to the council. I’d point back to the previous question, and other theories about some of the council members partnering with Amyr or conspiracies or Chandrian or whatnot. If it’s only a few, this scene sets up a fairly clear division with Elodin, as always, riding wherever the hell he pleases.

NotWc41

Wilem pointed out a few more notable buildings, including several good taverns, the alchemy complex, the Cealdish laundry, and both the sanctioned and unsanctioned brothels.

Where’s the complex at in relation to everything?

NotWc43

"The point is," Manet said seriously, "you don't want to cross him. Back in his first year here, one of the alchemists got on Ambrose's bad side. Ambrose bought his debt from the moneylender in Imre. When the fellow couldn't pay, they clapped him into debtor's prison."

If there’s something here, it’s so obscure as to be rendered invisible.

NotWc44

"How did that work out with Mandrag?" Wilem said with a rare smile.

Sovoy gave Wilem a dark look. "Mandrag is a horse's ass."

"What about Mandrag? I've got a lot of experience with chemistry. It'd be a small step into alchemy."

Simmon laughed. "Everyone thinks chemistry and alchemy are so similar, but they're really not. They're not even related. They just happen to live in the same house."

"Besides," Simmon said. "Mandrag brought in about twenty new E'lir last term. I heard him complaining about how crowded things were."

"... it up to him and say, No hard feelings about that time in the Crucible when you mixed my salts and I was nearly blind for a day. No. No really, drink up! Ha!" Simmon laughed, lost in his own vengeful fantasy.

Is it just me or is that a HUGE freaking influx of alchemists? I like Rothfuss’ way of showing how the medieval mind was different from the modern mind, how that wasn’t a bad thing and how there’s much to learn with alchemy simply by saying it lives in the same house as chemistry. This instantly gives the craft cred. Also, seems things don’t ever work out so well with Mandrag. If I were guessing, I’d say the real antagonist at school isn’t Hemme or Lorren. Lorren’s just anal and Hemme’s just a jerk. I’d point to Mandrag. He’s name even sounds like something ominous, especially broken into two English words. Why is crucible capitalized? Is that intentional? If so, like the play? Are there other capitalized words I’ve missed? Can’t remember… Also, sometimes a sacred salt mix refers to a healing mixture of herbs and salts and gems that people use to grid their beds or as to heal others with. Supposedly it has its own conscious, is truly alive, responds to conscious dialog, etc. Dunno if that’s what he means, but the blindness typically means something like referring to a spirit guide. Again, obscure, but exploring the options here…

Also, Sim has a vengeful fantasy... as an alchemist.

NotWc61

Then, the night before fall term began, Wil, Sim, and I posted them on every flat surface we could find on both sides of the river. We used a lovely alchemical adhesive Simmon had cooked up for the occasion. The stuff went on like paint, then dried clear as glass and hard as steel. If anyone wanted to remove the posts, they'd need a hammer and chisel.

Adhesives in alchemy typically mean taking two things and making one new thing out of them. If that’s the case here, Sim’s not adhering them. He’s fusing two things into a third essence. That’s why they’d need a hammer and a chisel—it’s like trying to remove an arm. What were these posts for? Anything significant?

NotWc71

Artificers have a great love for lodenstone. Alchemists too.

Curious for more instances of lodenstone. Of course we know its attraction. Some steps in the opus alchemicum:

• Putrefaction
  
• Separation
  
  • Distillation
    
  • Sublimation
    

  [*]Calcification

  [*]Coagulation

  [*]Dissolution

  [*]Separation

  [*]Liberation

  [*]Crystallization

  [*]Unification

  [*]Radiation

  [*]Magnetization

  [*]Alignment

  [*]Rotation

  [*]Torrefaction

  [*]Amalgamation

  [*]Finis

You’ll find Magnetization two-thirds down the list because the red king and white queen need to be brought together, the male and female, active and passive. To generalize, Alchemists wouldn’t use a lodestone for iron, but for general attraction wherever they needed it. There’s a lot of assumptions built into what I just said, but then again we’re exploring our options here not making conclusions…

NotWc77

"Back before modern mining people probably hunted them for their iron. Even nowadays I'm guessing an alchemist would pay a pretty penny for the scales or bones. Organic iron is a real rarity. They could probably do all sorts of things with it."

Organic iron, okay this is interesting especially combined with the lode stone. Organic iron is an oxymoron but in fantasy we tend to take oxymorons literally. Organic implies growth, more than just found in the soil. Organic implies life-force. Iron, by nature, tends to call up thoughts of industry and civilization. All obvious there. However, combined with the lodestone you could create a SIGNIFICANT weapon to use against the fae. Whatever happened to that draccus? Its scales? Hmm…

NotWc82

And the scales and bones. Hundreds of pounds of denatured iron that alchemists would have fought over. . .

Here it is again for the third time. Alchemists tied to the plot-point of the draccus. They burned it, I know, but still… De-natured? Iron that is outside of big “n” Nature or iron that is outside of its own inherent nature? I think it’s just another way of saying organic, the essence of iron without the normal restrictions of iron.

NotWc85

"All in favor?" the Chancellor said wearily. Hemme raised his hand, as did Brandeur, Mandrag, and Lorren. "Five and a half to four: grievance stands."

There’s the one side again, Hemme, Brandeur, Mandrag and Lorren. Lorren I tend to write off easier than others. Hemme’s a jerk and Brandeur belongs to Hemme. Why is Mandrag consistently against Kvothe? I don’t remember this…

WMFc4

The alchemy complex produced its own marvels that I was only dimly aware of, as well as raw materials like naphtha, sulfurjack, and twicelime.

Still, I didn't have a lot of options. "I guess I'll do lamps then," I said. Jaxim nodded and opened the ledger. I began to recite what I needed from memory. "I'll need twenty medium raw emitters. Two sets of the tall moldings. A diamond stylus. A tenten glass. Two medium crucibles. Four ounces of tin. Six ounces of fine-steel. Two ounces of nickel ..."

Naphtha normally refers to a number of flammable liquid mixtures of hydrocarbons, i.e., a component of natural gas condensate or a distillation product from petroleum, coal tar or peat boiling in a certain range and containing certain hydrocarbons. It is a broad term covering among the lightest and most volatile fractions of the liquid hydrocarbons in petroleum. Naphtha is a colorless to reddish-brown volatile aromatic liquid, very similar to gasoline. In petroleum engineering, full range naphtha is defined as the fraction of hydrocarbons in petroleum boiling between 30 °C and 200 °C.^[1] It consists of a complex mixture of hydrocarbon molecules generally having between 5 and 12 carbon atoms. It typically constitutes 15–30% of crude oil, by weight. Light naphtha is the fraction boiling between 30 °C and 90 °C and consists of molecules with 5–6 carbon atoms. Heavy naphtha boils between 90 °C and 200 °C and consists of molecules with 6–12 carbons. Naphtha is used primarily as feedstock for producing high octane gasoline (via the catalytic reforming process). It is also used in the bitumen mining industry as a diluent, the petrochemical industry for producing olefins in steam crackers, and the chemical industry for solvent (cleaning) applications. Common products made with it include lighter fluid, fuel for camp stoves, and some cleaning solvents.

Sulphurjack’s made up, dunno about it. Unless he’s combining Sulfur and Jackdaw, a stand-in for the crow imagery he likes. Maybe something deadly? Twicelime could refer to salt peter manure (a common element in explosives, especially when combined with sugar—interesting next to naphtha) or there’s always the weird references: In 1799, the French chemist Vauquelin became intrigued by the quantity of lime which hens excrete every day. He isolated a hen and fed it a pound of oats which were analyzed for lime (CaO). Vauquelin analyzed the eggs and feces and found five times more Ca was excreted than was consumed. He concluded that lime had been created, but could not figure out how it happened. Whatever it is, like naphtha, it’s a raw material and I’m sure those three have a point.

Twenty medium raw emitters. Two sets of the tall moldings. A diamond stylus. A tenten glass. Two medium crucibles. Four ounces of tin. Six ounces of fine-steel. Two ounces of nickel ..."

First three are tools, thought the diamond (adamantine prism) is interesting. Tenten like tented? Tin is the power play in alchemy, symbol of Jupiter and breath, often the breath of life. Standing alone, it’s weak, but here it’s combined with fine steel and nickel, physical strength. Nothing interesting here…

WMFc5

The bizarre alchemical compounds were the truly frightening things. There were transporting agents that would move through your skin without a leaving a mark, then quietly eat the calcuim out of your bones. Others would simply lurk in your body, doing nothing for months until you started to bleed from your gums and lose your hair. The things they produced in Alchemy Complex made arsenic look like sugar in your tea.

Indeed they do. In fact, come to think of it, when has anything that ever come out of the Alchemy Complex looked like sugar in tea? I can’t think of a time. Every time we meet an alchemist, they’re trying to poison or kill or plumb bomb or whatever Kvothe or someone he cares about.

WMFc6

I went past the Crucible, its countless bristling chimneys dark and largely smokeless against the moonlit sky. Even at night it smelled of ammonia and charred flowers, acid and alcohol: a thousand mingled scents that had seeped into the stone of the building over the centuries.

Ammonia (there’s the urine again) charred flowers, acid, alcohol. None of the pleasant scents he could have mentioned like rose petals or sugar or saltwater.

WMFc7

Sim nodded calmly and sat on the edge of his bed, facing me. "Okay, you know when someone's been drinking, and they get it into their head to do something stupid? And you can't talk them out of it even though it's obviously a bad idea?"

I laughed. "Like when you wanted to go talk to that harper girl outside the Eolian and threw up on her horse?"

He nodded. "Exactly like that. There's something an alchemist can make that does the same thing, but it's much more extreme.”

Simmon nodded. "It's a terrifying piece of alchemy. It's a variation of a sedative called a plum bob. You don't even have to ingest it. It's absorbed straight through the skin."

Sim gave a weak smile. "Mandrag lectures about it in every alchemy class he teaches. I've heard the story a dozen times by now. It's his favorite example of how alchemy can be abused. An alchemist used it to ruin the lives of several government officials in Atur about fifty years ago. He only got caught because a countess ran amok in the middle of a wedding, killed a dozen folk and—"

Sim stopped, shaking his head. "Anyway. It was bad. Bad enough that the alchemist's mistress turned him over to the guards."

Simmon looked nervous. "I don't think so. They might try a purgative, but it's not as if there's a drug working through him. Alchemy doesn't work like that. He's under the influence of unbound principles. You can't flush those out the way you'd try to get rid of mercury or ophalum."

WOAH, didn’t notice this last time. An alchemist ruined the lives of several government officials. Ambrose and Mandrag and Sim are the alchemists we know of. Also Caudecus (the staff carried by Mercury, the main message of the alchemical great work) was poisoning the Maer. If I had my bet on the main inciting incident with this kingkilling stuff, I’d look to an alchemist. “Under the influence of unbound principles.” – That’s Rothfuss’ theory of Alchemy in a nutshell. Unbinding whatever principles normally govern a given thing, moving it to do something against its essence.

WMFc9

"Good enough for me," Dal said. "Master Alchemist?"

Mandrag waved a mottled hand dismissively. "I'll pass."

"He's good with questions about spades," Elodin suggested.

Mandrag frowned at Elodin. "Master Archivist."

Why did Mandrag pass?

WMFc10

"I should start something new, I guess," I said casually. "I'll need a small crucible. Three ounces of tin. Two ounces of bronze. Four ounces of silver. A spool of fine gold wire. A copper—"

Tin and bronze this time, stepping back from the steel. Silver, like mercury, works as the inception at the work along with lead and mercury. Gold, perfection in all things. Copper’s the symbol of venus and love, part of the peak of the albedo, and was ancient in making mirrors. Nothing huge here.

"Is this copy of Malcaf new?" I asked.

"It is," she said walking over to stand beside me. "A young alchemist who couldn't settle his debt let me pick through his library in order to square things between us." Devi carefully pulled the book from the shelf, revealing Vision and Revision in gold leaf on the cover. She looked up at me, grinning impishly. "Have you read it?"

Interested in which alchemist settled his debt. Do you have the rest of this scene? That book’s the textbook on alchemy…

WMFc12

"I expect someone is trying to get me into trouble," I said. Compared to dosing me with an alchemical poison, spreading rumors was practically genteel behavior for Ambrose.

Alchemical poison again.

WMFc14

The acquisitions office, for example, was tiny and perpetually dark. Through the window I could see that one entire wall of the office was nothing but a huge map with cities and roads marked in such detail that it looked like a snarled loom. The map was covered in a layer of clear alchemical lacquer, and there were notes written at various points in red grease pencil, detailing rumors of desirable books and the last known positions of the various acquisition teams.

Early lamination. Cool, but probably useless.

WMFc18

"There are other arts," I said. "Sim does alchemy, for example."

"Sounds a damn sight easier than alchemy," Simmon said. "I'd rather do that than spend all day unbinding principles."

Unbinding principles again. If I were going to figure out how to change my name, I’d consider starting my study with alchemy.

WMFc23

"It could be a lingering effect from the plum bob," Sim said grimly. "Ambrose isn't much of an alchemist. And from what I understand, one of the main ingredients is lead. If he factored it himself, some latent principles could be affecting your system. Did you eat or drink anything different today?"

"I like it," Sim said. "But it's practically a nostrum all by itself. There's a lot of different tincturing going on in there. Nothing alchemical, but you've got nutmeg, thyme, clove—all manner of spices. Could be that one of them triggered some of the free principles lurking in your system."

Lead, normally the thing we have to work with, is established as something that creates lingering effects here. Triggering the free principles with tinctures and tonics? Interesting…

WMFc25

"When you were an E'lir," I continued. "You were suspended for two terms on charges of Wrongful Apprehension. Two years later, you were fined and suspended again for Misuse of University Equipment in the Crucible. I've heard Jamison knows the sort of business you do, but he's paid to turn a blind eye. I don't believe the last one, by the way."

What did he misuse?

"They fined me the full twenty talents and suspended me two terms," Sleat said grimly. "And that was only some Re'lar-level alchemy. It will be worse with you if this is El'the-level stuff."

Alchemy again as one of the most troublesome and devious of malfeasance.

"All the masters have private libraries," Fela said matter-of-factly. "I know some alchemy so I help spot books with formulae Mandrag wouldn't want in the wrong hands. Scrivs who know sygaldry do the same for Kilvin."

Wouldn’t be wanting in the wrong hands? This makes him either sound more normal or more devious.

WMFc26

Devi shook her head. "No. I've got some nice alchemical texts though. Stuff you'd never find in your precious Archives." Bitterness was thick in her voice when she said the last word.

Again with the texts.

"It's funny you should mention alchemy," I said as calmly as possible. "Have you ever heard of something called a plum bob?"

Has she?

"No thanks," I said. "I don't do much alchemy."

WMFc31 The Crucible

It was with a light heart that I visited Simmon in the alchemy complex.

"Okay," Sim said, exasperated. "You need to shut up and listen. This is alchemy. You know nothing about alchemy."

"Say it, then. Say, 'I know nothing about alchemy.' "

"Alchemy isn't just chemistry with some extra bits," he said. "That means if you don't listen to me, you'll jump to your own conclusions and be dead wrong. Dead and wrong."

Dead tied to alchemy again.

"Things," Simmon said testily. "It breaks down into complicated things you can't understand because you don't know anything about alchemy."

Sim's eyes narrowed. He picked up an empty crucible. "Fine," he said. "Fill this up then."

I splashed some water into the crucible and brought it back to Sim. He dipped the tip of his finger into it, swirled it around, and poured it into the hot iron pan. Thick orange flame roared up, burning three feet high until it flickered and died. Sim set down the empty crucible with a slight click and looked at me gravely. "Say it."

I looked down at my feet. "I know nothing about alchemy."

He just made water burn. Again, unbinding principles. I normally say amalgamating elements. They’re the same in essence, burning water. This actually affirms that he and I think similarly, which is encouraging.

WMFc33

Before we could head out, Sim handed me a small jar. I gave it an odd look. I already had his alchemical concoction tucked away in my cloak.

Always secret and hidden, these alchemical things.

Wil dealt another hand of breath. I picked up my cards carefully, as Simmon's alchemical concoction made my fingers ever so slightly sticky. We might as well have been playing with blank cards. I drew and threw randomly, pretending to concentrate on the game when really I was waiting, listening.

WMFc38

I looked up at the stars, tracing the familiar constellations in my head. Ewan the hunter, the crucible, the young-again mother, the fire-tongued fox, the broken tower....

WMFc39

"And so Sim ends up at the University," Wilem finished. "His father was hoping he would become a diplomat. Then Sim discovered he liked alchemy and poetry and entered the Arcanum. His father was not entirely pleased." Wilem gave me a significant look and I gathered he was drastically understating the case.

Diplomats contrasted with alchemists here.

WMFc40

Arcanum training does unnatural things to students' minds. The most notable of these unnatural things is the ability to do what most people call magic and we call sympathy, sygaldry, alchemy, naming, and the like.

WMFc42

"What's more," I said, meeting her eye. "It is entirely possible that my irrational behavior might have been partially due to the lingering effect of an alchemical poison I was subjected to earlier this term."

WMFc43

"Only through skill in naming did students move through the ranks. An alchemist without any skill in naming was regarded as a sad thing, no more respected than a cook. Sympathy was invented here, but a sympathist without any naming might as well be a carriage driver. An artificer with no names behind his work was little more than a cobbler or a smith."

A cook. A driver. A smith. A driver carries things from one place to another, connects them like sympathy. Smiths and artificers are obviously connected. “Cook” is his chosen metaphor, not “chemist” or “apothecary.” Maybe significant, maybe overstated.

WMFc49

"Once there was a learned arcanist. He knew all of sympathy and sygaldry and alchemy. He had ten dozen names tucked neatly into his head, spoke eight languages, and had exemplary penmanship. Really, the only thing that kept him from being a master was poor timing and a certain lack of social grace."

WMFc62

Caudicus had a respectable library, with nearly a hundred books crowding for space. I recognized many of the titles. Some were chemical references. Some were alchemical. Others dealt with the natural sciences, herbology, physiology, bestiology. The vast majority seemed to be historical in nature.

I watched him go through his preparations again. It wasn't alchemy.

How does Kvothe know? He knows nothing about alchemy!

I knew that from watching Simmon work. This was barely even chemistry. Mixing a medicine like this was closer to following a recipe than anything. But what were the ingredients?

WMFc87

After six or seven solid drinks, there is very little difference between a miller on the outs with his wife and a young alchemist who's done poorly on his exams.

WMFc142

I caused a bit of a stir when I stepped into the circle of light in front of the masters' table. They had heard the news and were surprised to see me alive, most of them pleasantly so. Kilvin demanded I report to the workshop soon, while Mandrag, Dal, and Arwyl argued over which courses of study I would pursue. Elodin merely waved at me, the only one apparently unimpressed by my miraculous return from the dead. After a minute of congenial chaos, the Chancellor got things back under control and started my interview. I answered Dal's questions easily enough, and Kilvin's. But I fumbled my cipher with Brandeur, then had to admit I simply didn't know the answer to Mandrag's question about sublimation.

I’ll quote George Ripley, 1591:

“And Sublimations we make for three causes,

The first cause is to make the mind spiritual.

The second is that the spirit may be corporeal,

And become fixed with it and consubstantial.

The third cause is that from its filthy original.

It may be cleansed, and its saltiness sulphurious

May be diminished in it, which is infectious”

If Rothfuss intends literary alchemy, then he's saying Kvothe knows nothing about the transformation he just went through. He, as a character, is oblivious to the framework. This shows Rothfuss' devotion to story over symbols. That's still an "if" statemtn.

WMFc143

It was different than the arrowcatch I'd made. The one I'd constructed was built from scratch and rather rough around the edges. This one was smooth and sleek. All the pieces fit together snugly, and it was covered in a thin layer of clear alchemical enamel that would protect it from rain and rust.

Like Kvothe. Also the second time we see alchemical laquer like the lamination.

Devi approached the desk wearing a dubious expression, then sat down and unwrapped the parcel. Inside was the copy of Celum Tinture I'd stolen from Caudicus' library. Not a particularly rare book, but a useful resource for an alchemist exiled from the Archives. Not that I knew anything about alchemy, of course.

He keeps saying how he knows nothing about alchemy, he knows nothing, he knows nothing. I’ll wager a copy of Burckhardt’s Alchemy to any takers that Kvothe WILL learn some alchemy come the third book, or at least someone close to him will utilize it like crazy. There’s too much of it around him.

WMFc146

Second came my failure in advanced chemistry, taken under Mandrag's giller, Anisat. While the material fascinated me, I did not get along with Anisat himself.

As a result, barely two span into the term we ended up shouting at each other in the middle of the Crucible while thirty students looked on, openmouthed with dismay.

Again, conflict between Mandrag and Kvothe that we downplay because of every other conflict that happens. Convenient that it's here at the end of the book, leading into the next one...

WMFc150

And, to make a painful story short, Hemme was appointed Chancellor. After the shock wore off, it was easy to see why. Kilvin, Arwyl, and Lorren were too busy to take up the extra duties. The same could be said for Mandrag and Dal to a lesser extent. That left Elodin, Brandeur, and Hemme.

And Mandrag to work the puppet strings? Maybe not… maybe so…

Well lots of speculation, more questions than answers, a couple of interesting connections. Hope something in here ends up being valuable--thanks again, Jumbles.

[jumbles]

You're welcome. And wow, you work fast!

Why is crucible capitalized? Is that intentional? If so, like the play?

The Crucible is the Alchemy building.

What were these posts for? Anything significant?

They were Kvothe's public "apology" to Ambrose for the Jackass, Jackass song.

Do you have the rest of this scene?

Several hours later, I climbed a narrow flight of stairs behind a butcher's shop. There was a faint, pervasive smell of rancid fat from the alley below, but I was smiling. An afternoon with Denna entirely to myself was a rare treat, and my step was surprisingly light for someone about to make a deal with a demon.

I knocked on the solid wooden door at the top of the steps and waited. No guild moneylender would trust me with a bent penny, but there are always folk willing to lend money. Poets and other romantics call them copper hawks, or sharps, but gaelet is the better term. They are dangerous people, and wise folk steer well clear of them.

The door opened a crack, then swung wide, revealing a young woman with a pixie face and strawberry-blonde hair. "Kvothe!" Devi exclaimed. "I worried I might not see you this term."

I stepped inside, and Devi bolted the door behind me. The large, windowless room smelled pleasantly of cinnas fruit and honey, a refreshing change from the alley.

One side of the room was dominated by a huge canopy bed, its dark curtains drawn. On the other side was a fireplace, a large wooden desk, and a standing bookshelf three-quarters full. I wandered over to eye the titles while Devi locked and barred the door.

"Is this copy of Malcaf new?" I asked.

"It is," she said walking over to stand beside me. "A young alchemist who couldn't settle his debt let me pick through his library in order to square things between us." Devi carefully pulled the book from the shelf, revealing Vision and Revision in gold leaf on the cover. She looked up at me, grinning impishly. "Have you read it?"

"I haven't," I said. I'd wanted to study it for admissions but hadn't been able to find a copy in the Stacks. "Just heard about it."

Devi looked thoughtful for a moment, then handed it to me. "When you've finished, come back and we'll discuss it. I'm woefully devoid of interesting conversation these days. If we have a decent argument, I might let you borrow another."

Once the book was in my hands, she tapped the cover lightly with a finger. "This book is worth more than you are." She said without a hint of playfulness in her voice. "If it comes back damaged, there will be an accounting."

"I'll be very careful," I said.

Devi nodded, then turned and walked past me toward the desk "Right then, on to business." She sat down. "Cutting it a little close, aren't you?" she asked. "Tuition needs to be paid before noon tomorrow."

"I live a dangerous and exciting life," I said as I wandered over and took a seat across from her. "And delightful as I find your company, I was hoping to avoid your services this term."

"How do you like tuition as a Re'lar?" she asked knowingly. "How hard did they hit you?"

"That's a rather personal question," I said.

Devi gave me a frank look. "We are about to enter into a rather personal arrangement," she pointed out. "I hardly feel I'm overstepping myself." "Nine and a half," I said.

She snorted derisively. "I thought you were supposed to be all manner of clever. I never got higher than seven when I was a Re'lar."

"You had access to the Archives," I pointed out.

"I had access to vast stores of intellect," she said matter-of-factly. "Plus, I am cute as a button." She gave a grin that brought out dimples in both her cheeks.

"You are shiny as a new penny," I admitted. "No man can hope to stand against you."

"Some women have trouble keeping their feet as well," she said. Her grin changed slightly, moving from adorable to impish and then well past the border into wicked.

Not having the slightest idea how to respond to that, I moved in a safer direction. "I'm afraid I need to borrow four talents." I said.

"Ah," Devi said. Suddenly businesslike, she folded her hands atop the desk. "I'm afraid I've made a few changes to my business recently," she said. "Currently, I am only extending loans of six talents or more."

I didn't bother trying to hide my dismay. "Six talents? Devi, that extra debt will be a millstone around my neck"

She gave a sigh that sounded at least slightly apologetic. "Here's the trouble. When I make a loan, I run certain risks. I risk losing my investment if my debtor dies or tries to run. I run the risk they'll attempt to report me. I run the risk of being brought up against the iron law, or worse, the moneylender's guild."

"You know I'd never try something like that, Devi."

"The fact remains," Devi continued, "my risk is the same, no matter if the loan is small or large. Why should I take those risks for small loans?"

"Small?" I asked. "I could live for a year on four talents!"

She tapped the desk with a finger, pursing her mouth. "Collateral?"

"The usual," I said, giving her my best smile. "My boundless charm."

Devi snorted indelicately. "For boundless charm and three drops of blood you can borrow six talents at my standard rate. Fifty percent interest over a two-month term."

"Devi," I said ingratiatingly. "What am I going to do with the extra money?"

"Throw a party," she suggested. "Spend a day in the Buckle. Find yourself a nice game of high-stakes faro."

"Faro," I said, "is a tax on people who can't calculate probabilities."

"Then run bank and collect the tax," she said. "Buy yourself something pretty and

wear it next time you come in to see me." She looked me up and down with dangerous eyes. "Maybe then I'll be willing to cut you a deal."

"How about six talents for a month at twenty-five percent?" I asked.

Devi shook her head, not unkindly. "Kvothe, I respect the impulse to bargain, but you don't have any leverage. You're here because you're over a barrel. I'm here to capitalize on that situation." She spread her hands in a helpless gesture. "That's how I make my living. The fact that you have a sweet face doesn't really enter into it."

Devi gave me a serious look. "Conversely, if a guild moneylender would give you the time of day, I wouldn't expect you to come here simply because I'm pretty and you like the color of my hair."

"It is a lovely color," I said. "We fiery types should really stick together." "We should," she agreed. "I propose we stick together at fifty percent interest over a two month term."

"Fine." I said, slumping back into my chair. "You win."

Devi gave me a winsome smile, dimples showing again. "I can only win if we were both actually playing." She opened a drawer in the desk, bringing out a small glass bottle and a long pin.

I reached out to take them, but instead of sliding them across the desk, she gave me a thoughtful look. "Now that I think of it, there might be another option."

"I'd love another option," I admitted.

"The last time we talked," Devi said slowly, "you implied you had a way into the Archives."

I hesitated. "I did imply that."

"That information would be worth quite a bit to me," she said over-casually.

Though she tried to hide it, I could see a fierce, lean hunger in her eyes. I looked down at my hands and didn't say anything.

"I'll give you ten talents right now," Devi said bluntly. "Not a loan. I'll buy the information outright. If I get caught in the Stacks, I never learned it from you."

I thought of everything I could do with ten talents. New clothes. A lute case that wasn't about to fall to pieces. Paper. Gloves for the coming winter. I sighed and shook my head.

"Twenty talents," Devi said. "And guild rates on any loans you want in the future."

Twenty talents would mean half a year of worry-free tuition. I could pursue my own projects in the Fishery rather than slaving away at deck lamps. I could buy tailored clothes. Fresh fruit. I could use a laundry rather than wash my clothes myself.

I drew a reluctant breath. "I—"

"Forty talents," Devi said hungrily. "Guild rates. And I will take you to bed."

For forty talents I could buy Denna her own half-harp. I could ...

I looked up and saw Devi staring at me from across the desk. Her lips were wet, her pale blue eyes intense. She shifted her shoulders back and forth in the slow, unconscious motion of a cat before it pounces.

I thought of Auri, safe and happy in the Underthing. What would she do if her tiny kingdom was invaded by a stranger?

"I'm sorry," I said. "I can't. Getting in is ... complicated. It involves a friend, and I don't think they'd be willing." I decided to ignore the other part of her offer, as I hadn't the slightest idea what to say about it.

There was a long, tense moment. "Goddamn you," Devi said at last. "You sound like you're telling the truth."

"I am," I said. "It's unsettling, I know."

"Goddamn." She scowled as she pushed the bottle and pin across the desk.

I pricked the back of my hand and watched the blood well up and roll down my hand to fall into the bottle. After three drops I tipped the pin into the mouth of the bottle as well.

Devi swabbed some adhesive around the stopper and drove it angrily into the bottle. Then she reached into a drawer and pulled out a diamond stylus. "Do you trust me?" She asked as she etched a number into the glass. "Or do you want this sealed?"

"I trust you," I said. "But I'd like it sealed all the same."

She melted a daub of sealing wax onto the top of the bottle. I pressed my talent pipes into it, leaving a recognizable impression. Reaching into another drawer, Devi brought out six talents and clattered them onto the desk. The motion might have seemed petulant if her eyes hadn't been so hard and angry.

"I'm getting in there one way or another," she said with a chill edge to her voice. "Talk to your friend. If you're the one that helps me, I'll make it worth your time."

"It's funny you should mention alchemy," I said as calmly as possible. "Have you ever heard of something called a plum bob?"

Has she?

She likely indirectly sold the recipe to Ambrose.

[thistlepong]

I’d be interested to see the list of names attached to the sword again and see if those interact with any of the bits of history we’ve pieced together.

With 100% accuracy, the sword mounted behind the bar is only called Folly, and even then only indirectly.

Saicere

Caesura

Kaysera, the Poet Killer (Kvothe says, in fact, that it's not this one.)

[bradd]

Sweet, answers! Now we have something else to discuss :) While he hasn't really confirmed or denied anything major to the plot, I think there's a fair bit we can take out of what he's said...

1. Shape of the world - Avoiding hyperbole, I take this to mean it's round?

2. Two chapters that used to be in book 1 - Not much to go on here, but an addition to the frame story makes the most sense. Kvothe interacting with Skarpi?

3. Collective sleeping mind - There's not much there from the actual question, but I like the way it's answered... not in this world, let alone the 4C. I like the distinction between the world and the 4C to remind us that the 4C is not the whole world.

4. Iax shaping Faen - I think this is a pretty solid confirmation that the house that Jax built is Faen (otherwise I think we would have got a "nice idea" instead). What are the three concepts in the question though? That the Faen was created, that Iax created it and that the energy available in Faen is different from that in the 4C?

5. Sympathy - If there are other magics than can be created is a good question... interesting. I haven't seen anything written down here about new magics, might be something to look into?

6. Types of magic - So from the comment, we have 10 types. For the two we've seen, I like knots and knacks. For the two we haven't seen, I like writing things down and singing.

7. Auri - Wow, this answer confuses me. Most of the others are relatively straightforward but Auri doing things for herself is not how I pictured her character to be. The throwaway of "not everything is in the book" opens up a bucket load more possibilities too. As for how Auri would find out where Kvothe lives by herself, when she doesn't talk to anyone but him... maybe there's an incorrect assumption about her there?

8. Auri kissing Kvothe - Why would this be his favourite? Does it come into play later on?

9. Caluptena - As much as it's a facetious remark, it might hint something here. If there was some sort of Amyr-esque battle here, does that mean the side who took the higher moral stance (and I hesitate to use the phrase "good guys") won?

10. Rings/Hands - Clues, plural... the only clue I saw on this one was "you're not ready for that yet" by Elodin.

11. Greyfallow - This is my favourite question of the lot. Why? 'Cause of the implications - how come he refuses to answer this one? It's a pretty innocent question? I can see two possibilities. First is that Greyfallow was named after the town of Fallow and PR doesn't want us to make the connection that rulers can be named after towns (ie Bredon, meaning his name isn't Bredon). That's a bit weak though. The only other explanation I have is that Greyfallow is important to the later story, and knowing where his name came from is a giveaway to who he is. That further implies there's a good chance we've met him. So going out on a limb here, and this doesn't completely make sense, but a grey fellow would also be the colour of Ash...

12. Copper - Didn't expect much out of this one, but like we expected, it's important.

13. Alchemy - I like this answer because of the last line - "you don't know anything about alchemy". It's what people keep saying to Kvothe in the narrative - but in the fram story he's teaching it, so he must have learnt something. I think this is a subtle hint that alchemy will be important in D3 (maybe something to do with Caudicus?)

14. Population of the 4C - Here's another interesting one... why not answer the question? Seems like something he'd know.... unless the population is only two, Kvothe and Manet (who is everyone else) :)

15. Renere - Visiting Renere, interesting. If we had to pick one city on the map where Kvothe would go I think the majority of people would have said Renere... doesn't look good for him visiting Ceald...

16. Mender - I think this rules out Trappis as a major player, otherwise we would have gotten a "good question". I still find it interesting though that he can name people - might be a religious thing? We haven't seen much (if anything) in the way of religious magic... the tinker question is interesting too. There might be a connection between religion and tinkers... has anyone proposed the idea that the task Aleph asks Selitos and Tehlu et al to do is becoming a tinker?

17. Arliden - A simple answer to how Loren knows Arliden, I like it. To me it's evidence against Arliden being important (or a Fae) but take it as you will.

Hats off to the Tor guys for putting this together :bowdown:

[two_by_two]

11. Greyfallow - This is my favourite question of the lot. Why? 'Cause of the implications - how come he refuses to answer this one? It's a pretty innocent question? I can see two possibilities. First is that Greyfallow was named after the town of Fallow and PR doesn't want us to make the connection that rulers can be named after towns (ie Bredon, meaning his name isn't Bredon). That's a bit weak though. The only other explanation I have is that Greyfallow is important to the later story, and knowing where his name came from is a giveaway to who he is. That further implies there's a good chance we've met him. So going out on a limb here, and this doesn't completely make sense, but a grey fellow would also be the colour of Ash...

Well, in England, lords and the like do take on the name of their lands. I can't think of any concrete examples at this moment, but it is a common practice.

[bradd]

two_by_two - Completely agree, I really like the idea of Bredon as being the ruler of Bredon town... the bit that I find really interesting is that Pat chose not to answer the question, and I don't understand why :)

[lanceschaubert]

You're welcome. And wow, you work fast!

Thanks. Can't devote large chunks of time to it, but the time I can devote, I offer up holistically.

The Crucible is the Alchemy building. They were Kvothe's public "apology" to Ambrose for the Jackass, Jackass song.

Dang. He really doesn't want those taken down.

An afternoon with Denna entirely to myself was a rare treat, and my step was surprisingly light for someone about to make a deal with a demon.

Three things strike me about this line. (1) Devi's referred to as a devil beyond her Devi-ous name. (2) This will make the second time Kvothe dealt with The Devil (figuratively or literally), a devil who wants to get into the stacks. Typically when someone makes a Faustian bargain, it never ends well for them. "...And if you lose, the devil gets your soul" kind of stuff. (3) The rare treat of Denna entirely to himself is mentioned in contrast to a deal with the devil.

"Is this copy of Malcaf new?" I asked.

"It is," she said walking over to stand beside me. "A young alchemist who couldn't settle his debt let me pick through his library in order to square things between us."

Devi carefully pulled the book from the shelf, revealing Vision and Revision in gold leaf on the cover. She looked up at me, grinning impishly. "Have you read it?"

"I haven't," I said. I'd wanted to study it for admissions but hadn't been able to find a copy in the Stacks. "Just heard about it."

Devi looked thoughtful for a moment, then handed it to me. "When you've finished, come back and we'll discuss it. I'm woefully devoid of interesting conversation these days. If we have a decent argument, I might let you borrow another." Once the book was in my hands, she tapped the cover lightly with a finger. "This book is worth more than you are." She said without a hint of playfulness in her voice.

"If it comes back damaged, there will be an accounting."

"I'll be very careful," I said.

It's funny. While deleting the large chunks of that scene, I found myself getting caught up in the story again. Might have to finish my read through just for fun. Anyway, there's three references to Alchemy in this chapter that share the plot point of the book, but are distinct. (1) A young Alchemist hard on his way came to deal with the devil. (2) The book itself is a gem, not the half-bit kind of book someone like Kvothe would own. Whoever hawked this had money at one point... suspects? (3) Kvothe wants to study the book. He wants to learn more about Alchemy. This is atypical compared to the conversations where he knows nothing, he knows nothing, he knows nothing about Alchemy.

I remember him returning the book, but it won't be under Crucible, Mandrag or Alchem. It'll be under the next instance of Devi or Melcaf. Interesting stuff, but more of a seed bed of thoughts than anything conclusive or breakthrough.

She likely indirectly sold the recipe to Ambrose.

So she's worked with Ambrose before? Is there any reason Ambrose would be down on his luck? Spent his wad on whores and so he couldn't settle for the recipe? If not, what other Alchemist would need to settle a debt?

[lanceschaubert]

With 100% accuracy, the sword mounted behind the bar is only called Folly, and even then only indirectly. Saicere Caesura Kaysera, the Poet Killer (Kvothe says, in fact, that it's not this one.)

Man I don't know. I realize that you would ruin a sword by trying to make one from the shards, like with a Japanese katana, but I can't stop thinking about Narsil was reforged into Anduril, how elvish magic undoes all that, forging a sword from the bits of its ancestor into a new, better sword for a new, better purpose.

Could there be a Four Corners equivalent? Distilling swords? "Distilling," in a magical sense, is an alchemical sort of word. Could you unbind the principles of several swords and re-fuse them into one sword-of-swords?

[two_by_two]

Man I don't know. I realize that you would ruin a sword by trying to make one from the shards, like with a Japanese katana, but I can't stop thinking about Narsil was reforged into Anduril, how elvish magic undoes all that, forging a sword from the bits of its ancestor into a new, better sword for a new, better purpose. Could there be a Four Corners equivalent? Distilling swords? "Distilling," in a magical sense, is an alchemical sort of word. Could you unbind the principles of several swords and refuse them into one sword-of-swords?

Gosh I imagine so. I expect you'd have to find the Names of the swords and then sort of bind them together. Or perhaps he forged Folly using the Name of swords in general, so that it is kind of the ur-sword, as it were. A sword that encompasses the idea of "sword".

[jumbles]

So she's worked with Ambrose before?

No, she sold the plum bob recipe to someone who may have been one of Ambrose's pawns. If that is the case then she didn't realize it at the time.

-----------------------

Also, anybody else notice how the Mains resembles the house that Jax built? Another Auri and Moon connection perhaps (since Auri lives under Mains and travels its roofs)?

[lanceschaubert]

Gosh I imagine so. I expect you'd have to find the Names of the swords and then sort of bind them together. Or perhaps he forged Folly using the Name of swords in general, so that it is kind of the ur-sword, as it were. A sword that encompasses the idea of "sword".

Kind of what I was thinking...

Also, anybody else notice how the Mains resembles the house that Jax built? Another Auri and Moon connection perhaps (since Auri lives under Mains and travels its roofs)?

Great call. I dig it.

[lanceschaubert]

With 100% accuracy, the sword mounted behind the bar is only called Folly, and even then only indirectly.

By the way, every time I read your pseudonym, I think of ping pong with thistles. We had these gum ball trees in our front yard growing up. Can't imagine having one of those served toward me.

[lanceschaubert]

Gosh I imagine so. I expect you'd have to find the Names of the swords and then sort of bind them together. Or perhaps he forged Folly using the Name of swords in general, so that it is kind of the ur-sword, as it were. A sword that encompasses the idea of "sword".

Could you, for instance, take those three that Thistle mentioned:

Saicere

Caesura

Kaysera, the Poet Killer (Kvothe says, in fact, that it's not this one.)

Unbind them from what they are and then refashion them through shaping and distill them with a bit of alchemy to, literally, see the raw essence of sword laying in the bottom of a cauldron?

[two_by_two]

Could you, for instance, take those three that Thistle mentioned: Saicere Caesura Kaysera, the Poet Killer (Kvothe says, in fact, that it's not this one.) Unbind them from what they are and then refashion them through shaping and distill them with a bit of alchemy to, literally, see the raw essence of sword laying in the bottom of a cauldron?

Well, that's a lot more literal than I was imagining, especially because Saicere, Caesura, and Kaysera the Poet Killer are merely different ways of looking at the same sword. Though maybe that's the key - finding the common thread in all the different descriptions of a thing and cutting away the distractions and differences until you get at the truth. Which is exactly what we're doing here, I suppose.

So maybe you Name several different swords and pick out the common bits - sort of like finding the Latin roots in English. Then, once you have the very basis, you can add on whatever frills you like until you have your ideal sword. I can't imagine how it has much to do with alchemy, but then, I know nothing about alchemy.