The Wise Man's Fear VIII

[Ninefingers]

Thanks Angeleyes.

I keep coming back to this passage because it just doesn't make sense that it's random. Rothfuss is a careful writer and we know he likes to hide clues in his work, so it just seems plain odd to me.

The "she's just drunk" explanation is unsatisfying because, well, I've written things drunk and I'd say misspellings and poor grammar are more the order of the day.

Lastly,

I'm not sure the letters I grabbed are even correct. Perhaps include proper names as well? Actually, as I think of this, maybe there are words that should have been capitalized but are not? I need to go re-read that section.

[Tears of Lys]

So if everyone thinks Tehlu et al are "Gods", it makes them so? That's a really interesting idea... or if Kvothe thinks that he's Kote enough, it makes it so? :)

Oh, dear. We're into Bakker territory here. That's the primary idea behind his gods.

[Sci-2]

Oh, dear. We're into Bakker territory here. That's the primary idea behind his gods.

Tears, you really should [join] the new Bakker forums. I'm curious as to your thoughts on Bakkernalia.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Sciborg,

New Bakker forums?

[Sci-2]

Sciborg,

New Bakker forums?

http://secondapocalypse.forumer.com/index.php

(Heh, synchronistically, I just added an interview of Penrose in the Philosophy section!)

[Dot Seth]

What was caudicus really up to? Alchemy which Im sure u recall kvothe knows nothing about is transmuting lead to gold. In alchemy temperature matters. The potion for the maer had lead and was temperature sensitive.

Auri is ariel and the princess rescued from the barrow king. The four plate door has a barrow king in it according to fela. Is it selitos or what in there? Who is the barrow king.

In a story about the unreliability of stories it's possible the king kvothe kills is not king. Maybe it's the king of the archives lorren or the king of the university hemme or the king of dance for that matter.

[bradd]

Well I know he didn't kill Elvis 'cause I swear I saw him at WallMart the other day.... :D

Auri as Ariel has been discussed quite a bit and general consensus is that it doesn't fit. Selitos as the Cthaeh (so not behind the four plate door) is also pretty popular - see back through the threads.

Your point on Caudicus is smack on though - I haven't seen a plausible idea for Caudicus's role in the story.

[two_by_two]

Well I know he didn't kill Elvis 'cause I swear I saw him at WallMart the other day.... :D

Auri as Ariel has been discussed quite a bit and general consensus is that it doesn't fit. Selitos as the Cthaeh (so not behind the four plate door) is also pretty popular - see back through the threads.

Your point on Caudicus is smack on though - I haven't seen a plausible idea for Caudicus's role in the story.

Besides convenient plot point? Pawn of the Chandrian, pawn of the Amyr, one of the Amyr himself, one of the Chandrian (unlikely).

All flippancy aside, there is definitely more to Caudicus than meets the eye.

WMF Ch 64 "Flight"

"There was no answer from the tower when we knocked. Dagon had us force the door. There was... I know not what it was, your grace. Some malignant spirit. Anders is dead, your grace. Caudicus is nowhere in his rooms, but Dagon is after him.

Emphasis mine. What is this? We have seen no signs of any alchemy or sympathy that could conjure up a malignant spirit or even something that could be mistaken as one. Illusions, certainly. But something powerful enough to kill a man? The only things we know of that can do that are malfeasance (which requires samples of the target, probably would not appear as a malignant spirit (I'm uncertain how their superstition works), and would not be easily set up as a trap), or a real creature.

Assume it's sygaldry, which is the only way I could see it functioning as a trap. I literally have no idea how you would make sygaldry appear as a malignant spirit. Sure, you could set up a crossbow or something to be triggered by opening the door, but they wouldn't call that a spirit. Just a trap. To me, the phrase "malignant spirit" evokes images of a dark shadowy shape engulfing someone or some crazy thing like that. Also keep in mind that Caudicus probably didn't have much time to set up this trap (unless he has had it ready for a long time).

What's his motivation for poisoning the Maer? He is clearly not doing it by accident - he tests to make sure the Maer is drinking it, and he sets up the "malignant spirit" trap mentioned above before fleeing when he knows he's been found out. What does he have to gain from killing his benefactor? As Kvothe says to the Maer, "You're no use to me dead." Caudicus is either a) dangerously irrational, B) under duress from someone or c) working for someone who can give him something the Maer can't. I suspect c, because he doesn't read as either dangerously irrational or in the kind of emotional turmoil that would result from someone holding something over him. He seems calm, cool, and collected.

[Kv0th3]

WMF Ch 64 "Flight"

"There was no answer from the tower when we knocked. Dagon had us force the door. There was... I know not what it was, your grace. Some malignant spirit. Anders is dead, your grace. Caudicus is nowhere in his rooms, but Dagon is after him.

I always thought that it was probably simpathy, sigaldry or just some poison... It seems to me that the part about the malignant spirit is because the people in that part of the world are superstitious. For example, the first man through the door walks into a trap that releases a cloud of poison and dies...

[two_by_two]

I always thought that it was probably simpathy, sigaldry or just some poison... It seems to me that the part about the malignant spirit is because the people in that part of the world are superstitious. For example, the first man through the door walks into a trap that releases a cloud of poison and dies...

That is a fair point about the poison. And I realize that the people in that area are very superstitious. It just seems to me that most traps Caudicus could set up would be easily recognizable as TRAPS, rather than spirits. But I suppose if they went in expecting to confront a powerful dark wizard, fear and superstition could inflate something as minor as a simple trap into something terrible.

What actually surprises me the most is that, when Kvothe goes to work on something later using Caudicus's chamber, he makes no mention of cautiously checking for traps, "spirits", or even leftover sygaldry. This could be a continuity error on Pat's part, or just Kvothe arrogantly dismissing all threats.

[Nisheeth]

That is a fair point about the poison. And I realize that the people in that area are very superstitious. It just seems to me that most traps Caudicus could set up would be easily recognizable as TRAPS, rather than spirits. But I suppose if they went in expecting to confront a powerful dark wizard, fear and superstition could inflate something as minor as a simple trap into something terrible.

What actually surprises me the most is that, when Kvothe goes to work on something later using Caudicus's chamber, he makes no mention of cautiously checking for traps, "spirits", or even leftover sygaldry. This could be a continuity error on Pat's part, or just Kvothe arrogantly dismissing all threats.

Or maybe they made that apparent trap into a malignant spirit to not seem too incompetent before the Maer for not being careful enough to see a trap. As for Kvothe, I think it was a mistake by Rothfuss.

[Tears of Lys]

http://secondapocaly...r.com/index.php

(Heh, synchronistically, I just added an interview of Penrose in the Philosophy section!)

Thanks for the link. I haven't been able to spend much time on the board lately because.... well, you know. :( The same problem that's been afflicting everyone.

[lanceschaubert]

Was Denna sending Kvothe a secret message?

YOOSSHCMTWFML

Some days, I like to think if we break it up thusly:

YOOS SH CMTWFML

It becomes a cryptogram meaning:

DOOM MY AIRSHIP.

But that's just me. No seriously, I have no clue.

[Spaßvogel]

What was caudicus really up to? Alchemy which Im sure u recall kvothe knows nothing about is transmuting lead to gold. In alchemy temperature matters. The potion for the maer had lead and was temperature sensitive.

The one curious detail about Caudicus, was that he had "summered" with the Jakis family. Is it possible that he's been helping someone to move up in the line of succession?

[jumbles]

Kvothe translated "Kraemet brevetan Aerin" as "Shit in God's beard" (WMFc21). I guess that means Aerin is the Cealdish God. That name is similar to Aerueh, a place far from the Circle Sea and a source of polished horn and fine dark ink. The name is also similar to Aerlevsedi which is apparently the Name of the wind (NotWc84). Also, Faeriniel contains aerin in it.

[Kv0th3]

That is a fair point about the poison. And I realize that the people in that area are very superstitious. It just seems to me that most traps Caudicus could set up would be easily recognizable as TRAPS, rather than spirits. But I suppose if they went in expecting to confront a powerful dark wizard, fear and superstition could inflate something as minor as a simple trap into something terrible.

What actually surprises me the most is that, when Kvothe goes to work on something later using Caudicus's chamber, he makes no mention of cautiously checking for traps, "spirits", or even leftover sygaldry. This could be a continuity error on Pat's part, or just Kvothe arrogantly dismissing all threats.

I think Kvothe mentiones something about checking Caudicus's equipment for tampering... When he started working on the gram for the Maer...

[theHoodedBard]

OK, wow, love the amount of attention this series gets here. Sorry cant read all the threads and i skip over the posts that are more like college term papers.... just here for the conversation

I dont see much about the Maer being AMyr. Ill give my quick thoughts as i just finished the second book after reading the first a couple years ago

Meluan is Kvothes Aunt.

As soon as Trebon, I believed Ash is related to chandrian. i see most on this thread thinks he is Cinder which backs up my assumption but im not so convinced. No reason Master Ash has to be someone we know already as everyone here seems to think its Cinder or Bredon.

Ash may be someone tied to both kv and denna, and are guiding their paths in some way, perhpas knowing the future.

The Maer i believe is in on all of it to and possibly Amyr. I dont doubt for a second he knew about Kv long before KV even met (forgetting name) rich guy that sent him to vint. I doubt the Maer did not know he was sending Kv to fight a member of chandrian. He promotes Kvothe's search for truth of them in his last conversation to keep him on the path, but then sends him away....... The lackless box which is lockless and all that business you have discussed and discussed makes this all make sense a bit to me.

Please pick this to pieces to i can have some clarity

[Ninefingers]

I just reread the skin dancer scene from book 1.

One of the things he said was "Te Rhintae?"

It was only upon going back that I noticed that the Adem call the seven "Rhinta" in book 2.

[Nisheeth]

I just reread the skin dancer scene from book 1.

One of the things he said was "Te Rhintae?"

It was only upon going back that I noticed that the Adem call the seven "Rhinta" in book 2.

I remember it being mentioned before. Some even concluded that "Te Rhintae" means "You Chandrian?"

[JezDynamite]

I remember it being mentioned before. Some even concluded that "Te Rhintae" means "You Chandrian?"

We talked a fair bit about this and a few other words on he Tor reread recently.

Te Rhintae

Vorfelan Rhinata Morie. (written above the archives entrance)

Rhinta

Rhinna (the panacea flower growing off the Cthaeh's tree)

People seemed to be divided in their thinking that the "probable root" of these words (rhin) from different languages relates to a common root meaning 'man' or 'shape' (eg: 'shaped/shapes/shaper/one of the shaped'.