House Army numbers?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Exactly, the video explained all of this. Its quite long though and for those of you who don't want to watch all of it here are the basics:

Tyrells are the strongest with 100,000 troops and strong navy

Lannisters with around 60,000

Riverlands to be about 40,000 - 50,000 due to their rich and fertile lands

Starks around 35,000

Vale 30,000 - 35,000

Stormlands 25,000 - 30,000

Dorne 20,000 - 25,000

Iron Islands 10,000 - 20,000

Well, some are good estimates, some are a bit off.

Tyrells fit.

Lannister can't have 60,000, or they would have had another 15,000 that never showed up,when they were sorely needed. So ~45,000

Riverlands may be right, not enough information.

Starks far too low. Elio made a good point with the sailors, but he counts the sailors of the Ironborn, the Crownlands and the Tyrells, he should count the White Harbour ones as well. Furthermore there are already more than 35,000 just with half the Houses in the North showing up (counting Robb as well). The other ones should show up later, too.

Vale, who knows. It may be more. Six Lords Declarent could already field 20,000, and I doubt whether they were two thirds of the strength.

Stormlands maybe.

Dorne has a statement by Doran who should know: 30,000.

Ironborn are fare more. The Iron Fleet alone has at the very least 10,000 men for their battleships (not longships), adding several hundred longships ups the numbers considerably.

[The Frost Wolf]

Ironborn are fare more. The Iron Fleet alone has at the very least 10,000 men for their battleships (not longships), adding several hundred longships ups the numbers considerably.

no its longships. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Iron_Fleet "The Iron Fleet is the largest grouping of longships from the Iron Islands."

[Bright Blue Eyes]

no its longships. http://awoiaf.wester....php/Iron_Fleet "The Iron Fleet is the largest grouping of longships from the Iron Islands."

That's the wiki. The wiki is unreliable as hell. The Iron Fleet's ships are capable of "facing the Royal Fleet in battle". The Royal Fleet consists of wargalleys with one hundred, two hundred or in a few cases three hundred oars.

[The Frost Wolf]

That's the wiki. The wiki is unreliable as hell. The Iron Fleet's ships are capable of "facing the Royal Fleet in battle". The Royal Fleet consists of wargalleys with one hundred, two hundred or in a few cases three hundred oars.

Just because they are able to face the royal fleet in battle doesn't mean they're not longships? Longships are quick and agile and can dart around the massive war galleys. E.g the Spanish Armada when they attempted to invade Britain

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Just because they are able to face the royal fleet in battle doesn't mean they're not longships? Longships are quick and agile and can dart around the massive war galleys. E.g the Spanish Armada when they attempted to invade Britain

Currently I don't have the time to dig through the books, but believe me, the Iron Fleet does not consist of longships. They have a proper size.

[Barty]

My estimates

House Tully : 40k(rich fertile lands, but no cities and no fleet)

House Tyrell : 90k(rich fertile lands, one of the largest fleets and one of the largest cities)

House Arynn : 35k(a rich and fertile land but is smaller in comparisson to others, one of the great cities of westeros)

House Lannister : 50k( rich lands, lots of gold which attracts sellswords and hedge knights, a great city and a decent size navy)

House Stark : 50k - They hold the largest territory in the seven kingdoms as well as one of the great cities. On top of that they have had 300 years of continuous peace(Starks never sent any men to fight for Targs in any of their rebellions) since Torrhen Stark bent the knee and even then he could project a force of 30k men into enemy territory.

House Martell : 25-30k(though most people seem to be sure that Dorne can raise 50k spears)

House Baratheon : 25-30k(poor lands, no cities)

House GreyJoy : 20-25k (very poor lands, no cities, huge navy and higher percentage of population likely to fight)

[Free Northman]

Exactly, the video explained all of this. Its quite long though and for those of you who don't want to watch all of it here are the basics:

Tyrells are the strongest with 100,000 troops and strong navy

Lannisters with around 60,000

Riverlands to be about 40,000 - 50,000 due to their rich and fertile lands

Starks around 35,000

Vale 30,000 - 35,000

Stormlands 25,000 - 30,000

Dorne 20,000 - 25,000

Iron Islands 10,000 - 20,000

Ran has access to incredible knowledge on the Ice and Fire world. However, the number of Stark troops is not something he has confirmed inside knowledge of.

Instead, the above is his opinion only. An opinion I continue to disagree with.

The logic remains simple:

The population density of the southern half of the North is far greater than that of the Northern half. Probably 2 or 3 times greater. Barrowton and White Harbor are almost 1000 miles south of the Last Hearth, after all.

Between the Greatjon, the Boltons, the Karstarks and the Mormonts (the northernmost lords) they brought at least 8000 men to Robb's army.

And that excluded the 3000 northern Mountain clansmen and the probable 3000 northern Skagosi. Meaning that the Northernmost North could have brought at least 14000 men to party at a first muster.

Even if the southern North only has twice the population density of the colder northern parts, that would bring at least another 28,000 into the equation from the "south".

But given that after the above 14000, the Karstarks, Mormonts, Umbers and Boltons between them have raised around another 2500 men, it means that the full strength of the northern parts is sitting at around 17000, meaning that if you give the southern parts double that population density, you're looking at another 34000 men from the southern North, meaning about 51000 in total.

[Frey Pie]

Those advantages include the 100 longships of the Iron Fleet. Which is made up of strong ships with capable soliders. But if the Iron Islands was to field every single ship (including fishing vessels, etc) it would probably have around 900, maybe more.

Dorne's population can be rallied quite quickly as we've seen throughout the books. Almost all of the Dornish population are trained with Spears and Dorne does have quite a knack for violence. As well as this they have the Prince's Pass, making Dorne almost impregnable by land when there are 25,000 spears jabbing at your army when you're moving down a narrow, mountainous region.

Elio put that down to the fact that the West didn't get involved in Robert's Rebellion except for the Sack. Thus making the Lannister's losses far less substantial than the Starks, Vale or anyone else. But that doesn't mean all their soliders are greybeards or anything like that, he also said that the West is economically strong (gold mines being abundant) so it would generally attract a lot of people. And in aCoK Stafford was struggling to find that many soliders because almost the entirety of the Lannister's forces were in the Riverlands/Harrenhal/Crownlands. Jamie took almost 30,000 to Riverrun and those men were smashed by Robb in the Whispering Wood and the Camps. Tywin had around 25k at the Green Fork meanwhile.

Plus, raising a new host would consist of conscripting everyone they could find. Rodrik Cassel rallied almost 2,000 troops to oust Theon from Winterfell. And even when they were slaughtered, Stannis managed to find over 4,000 new recruits in the mountains alone, not even counting the amount of random Northerners who rallied to him when he gave Deepwood back to the Glovers.

Jaime had 15000, Tywin 20000 and Stafford around 10000. Of these 45000, a huge amount are dead or have dropped arms. Lannister armies suffered more then even Tully in the war. I also dont see how Stark losses could be so high un RR. He had the largest number of men but travelled mostly through allied land, which had been subdued by Hoster. Arryn, Baratheon and Tully losses should be far larger i would think, for having infighting. The fact that Ned was able to rush off to KL and SE with the van speaks of few enough casualties also. In any case i see 35000 as the absolute outside of Stark strength, with the upside being 50000. I can take 60000 for the West, but only when the number includes mercenaries hired aswell

[The Frost Wolf]

Ran has access to incredible knowledge on the Ice and Fire world. However, the number of Stark troops is not something he has confirmed inside knowledge of.

Instead, the above is his opinion only. An opinion I continue to disagree with.

The logic remains simple:

The population density of the southern half of the North is far greater than that of the Northern half. Probably 2 or 3 times greater. Barrowton and White Harbor are almost 1000 miles south of the Last Hearth, after all.

Between the Greatjon, the Boltons, the Karstarks and the Mormonts (the northernmost lords) they brought at least 8000 men to Robb's army.

And that excluded the 3000 northern Mountain clansmen and the probable 3000 northern Skagosi. Meaning that the Northernmost North could have brought at least 14000 men to party at a first muster.

Even if the southern North only has twice the population density of the colder northern parts, that would bring at least another 28,000 into the equation from the "south".

But given that after the above 14000, the Karstarks, Mormonts, Umbers and Boltons between them have raised around another 2500 men, it means that the full strength of the northern parts is sitting at around 17000, meaning that if you give the southern parts double that population density, you're looking at another 34000 men from the southern North, meaning about 51000 in total.

Jaime had 15000, Tywin 20000 and Stafford around 10000. Of these 45000, a huge amount are dead or have dropped arms. Lannister armies suffered more then even Tully in the war. I also dont see how Stark losses could be so high un RR. He had the largest number of men but travelled mostly through allied land, which had been subdued by Hoster. Arryn, Baratheon and Tully losses should be far larger i would think, for having infighting. The fact that Ned was able to rush off to KL and SE with the van speaks of few enough casualties also. In any case i see 35000 as the absolute outside of Stark strength, with the upside being 50000. I can take 60000 for the West, but only when the number includes mercenaries hired aswell

I agree with both of your evidence on the northern armies, I was only stating what Elio said on the matter. He seemed to think that the North was on par with the Vale, since the North isn't densely populated and much of it is unfarmable.

And when I included mercenaries or fickle minor lords/hedge knights in my estimates of the West. When Robb won at Riverrun I remember a lot of the former Lannister siege forces going over to the Stark/Tullys.

[Free Northman]

I agree with both of your evidence on the northern armies, I was only stating what Elio said on the matter. He seemed to think that the North was on par with the Vale, since the North isn't densely populated and much of it is unfarmable.

And when I included mercenaries or fickle minor lords/hedge knights in my estimates of the West. When Robb won at Riverrun I remember a lot of the former Lannister siege forces going over to the Stark/Tullys.

80% of the Vale is covered by inhospitable mountains. The actual fertile part is smaller than the Manderly lands.

[Erkan12]

Lannisters 60.000

Baratheons 50.000

Starks 45.000

Arryns 35.000

Martell 30.000

Tyrell 30.000

Tully 30.000

Greyjoys 20.000

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Lannisters 60.000

Baratheons 50.000

Starks 45.000

Arryns 35.000

Martell 30.000

Tyrell 30.000

Tully 30.000

Greyjoys 20.000

Reasons?

[Scipio Africanus]

Elio did underestimate the North I feel. While the population density is low, it's not like it's totally unpopulated. White Harbor is one of the bigger cities in Westeros. Furthermore, as someone else noted, he didn't count Manderly's sailors but he did count sailors for the other regions into troop totals, which is of course isn't accurate then.

The Vale has a very fertile region (Vale of Arryn) and along with Gulltown probably sports the biggest population numbers. But yeah regions like the Fingers, the Sisters, and around the mountains of the Eyrie (or where the Mountain Clans live) probably isn't densely populated nor firtile.

The biggest problem for the North isn't that they can't raise a decent size army right now (post WotFK). It's that the Others are coming and will kill a lot of people before anyone has the chance to raise them.

[Erkan12]

Reasons?

I'm estimating... after Targeryans, 4 family was strongest ; Lannisters-Starks-Arryns-Baratheons , i don't think Tyrells has that power like 100.000...

And Tywin said to Jaime i'm giving half of our army ; 30.000... so 60.000 is fiting. Maybe they can gather more with their golds...

[Free Northman]

Another point I feel strongly about is the reading we had from Aegon's conquest.

The Reach and the Westerlands combined their strength to raise the largest army ever seen in Westeros. It numbered 55,000 men.

Torhenn Stark on his own raised 30,000 men.

Now, I insist on these two events being treated equally. It is not even-handed to suggest that the Reach and Westerlands were only sending part of their strength against Aegon, while Torhenn was down to the sweepings of the North. There is no textual evidence for such a position.

If the size of the combined host of 55,000 was so eye-popping, it suggests to me that the previous largest host raised was probably significantly smaller than that. Probably in the region of 40,000. And given the population statistics of Westeros, that previous 40,000 strong host would have belonged to the Reach, being the most populous of the regions.

Meaning that Torhenn's host was very sizeable for Westeros at the time, not far off the Reach's full strength, and probalby as large or larger than that of the Westerlands.

Incidentally we are also told that the King of the Reach had command on the Field of fire, because he provided the most men to the 55,000 strong host. A likely breakdown is therefore 35,000 from the Reach, and 20,000 from the Westerlands.

Meaning Torhenn's host was 50% larger than that of the Westerlands. Even if the Westerlands did not send their full strength to the Field of Fire, it is then very likely that the full strength of the North and the Westerlands would have been very similar in number.

What people fail to grasp from the War of the Five Kings is that Tywin's wealth and iron handed discipline, coupled with his relatively small geographical area and resultant concentrated population, means that he can raise the majority of his strength much faster than the Starks can.

Meaning that the 35,000 troops he marshalled was much closer to his full potential strength than Robb's Stark's 20,000 was to his. I'm thinking 80% vs 40%.

Meaning that the full strength of the two regions is probably virtually equal.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I'm estimating... after Targeryans, 4 family was strongest ; Lannisters-Starks-Arryns-Baratheons , i don't think Tyrells has that power like 100.000...

And Tywin said to Jaime i'm giving half our army ; 30.000... so 60.000 is fiting.

Well, the Tyrells have definite proof in the books for 70,000 minimum, maximum unspecified. And Jaime had only 15,000, not 30,000. Maybe you have been irritated by the show?.

[Free Northman]

I'm estimating... after Targeryans, 4 family was strongest ; Lannisters-Starks-Arryns-Baratheons , i don't think Tyrells has that power like 100.000...

And Tywin said to Jaime i'm giving half of our army ; 30.000... so 60.000 is fiting. Maybe they can gather more with their golds...

That's incorrect. The TV show used those numbers, but the books actually had Tywin with 20,000 and Jaime with 15,000, meaning a total of 35,000, not 60,000.

[The Frost Wolf]

Lannisters 60.000

Baratheons 50.000

Starks 45.000

Arryns 35.000

Martell 30.000

Tyrell 30.000

Tully 30.000

Greyjoys 20.000

Tyrells at 30,000? Thats way too little. At least 70,000.

[Free Northman]

Tyrells at 30,000? Thats way too little. At least 70,000.

Indeed, the Reach at full strength would probably match the 100k that Renly had, which included 30k Stormland troops, but excluded the Hightowers or Redwynne forces.

[Mist Isle]

Elio states that he "would place" the Lannister/Westerlands potential at "about 50,000 strong" in the video.