House Army numbers?

[King Aerys the Just]

That's why I'm going from a SSM, the map was just because I'm to lazy to search 15 years worth of SSMs :cool4:

Bah! :D

A westeros the size of South America just sounds so... preposterous, though. A medieval feudal state almost three times the size of the Roman Empire at its peak. Really? I guess the Iron Throne is completely fucked unless they'll be getting new dragons then, because there's no way they are holding a kingdom that size together without magical help.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

The books E-Ro. I agree with you on many things, but this is something that i never will until the books imply it.

Robb never talks about winning back north and raising a host.

His men never seek to do so.

Rodrik, his castellan and while Robbs away second in command, never speaks about raising another army for his kings campaign in the south.

Oh yes, he does. "If Robb needs another army, he'll send word and we'll gather one for him". To Bran, when Bran wants to help Robb in late Game or early Clash.

When the kingdom is threatened, he only raises 2000 men, leaving the other 28k to eat meatpies?

Time and distance. These 28k men are distributet across an area the size of Europe. The 2000 men are just those directly on his way to Torrhens Square.

When the Lannisters join the Tyrells, his lords consider the cause lost, when another 30k are waiting marching orders back home?

100k Tyrells? Winterfell burned? The Ironborn in Moat Cailin?

When the battle for the north is revving up, less than 12k men are in play, with only perhaps 8500 being northmen, when theres another 20k just burping out the remnants of their earlier meatpies?

12k Northmen from four houses out of 15-20 (counting the mountain clans as a single house)

The books never make it seem as if the Starks have another huge host waiting to be called up, but it does imply that the Lannisters and Tyrells have such options.

The Starks have. The Tyrells have. The Lannisters haven't.

Than where are they in ADWD? Why is everyone's forces down to a few thousand on each side?

Because no one has gathered them in one spot - yet.

[E-Ro]

The books E-Ro. I agree with you on many things, but this is something that i never will until the books imply it.

Robb never talks about winning back north and raising a host.

His men never seek to do so.

Rodrik, his castellan and while Robbs away second in command, never speaks about raising another army for his kings campaign in the south.

When the kingdom is threatened, he only raises 2000 men, leaving the other 28k to eat meatpies?

When the Lannisters join the Tyrells, his lords consider the cause lost, when another 30k are waiting marching orders back home?

When the battle for the north is revving up, less than 12k men are in play, with only perhaps 8500 being northmen, when theres another 20k just burping out the remnants of their earlier meatpies?

The books never make it seem as if the Starks have another huge host waiting to be called up, but it does imply that the Lannisters and Tyrells have such options.

Actually, ser rodrick says in clash(or the end of got, i dont recall) that if his grace needs another army he will send for one. I understand were you are coming from and respect your ideas and opinion, but if there are no more fighting men in the north westeros is screwed come the winter.

Than where are they in ADWD? Why is everyone's forces down to a few thousand on each side?

They are spread throughout the north, in small villages and holdfasts. The north is vast, its not as if they are sitting around twiddling their thumbs. They are going about everyday life. In fact I would not be suprised if there are many people in the north who dont even know about robb marching south and becoming king in the north. As well, if all robb could muster was 20k his decision to march south was incredibly stupid, as was the decision of any stark to ever march south if all they could muster was 20k.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Bah! :D

A westeros the size of South America just sounds so... preposterous, though. A medieval feudal state almost three times the size of the Roman Empire at its peak. Really? I guess the Iron Throne is completely fucked unless they'll be getting new dragons then, because there's no way they are holding a kingdom that size together without magical help.

This has been the dominant idea for the future of Westeros for quite some time. And please remember, the Stark Lords were King in the North in all but name and a single occurence per century.

[pestor]

ask Stannis he knows every houses man power :bang:

[Daemul]

ask Stannis he knows every houses man power :bang:

That dude needs to get laid

[E-Ro]

ask Stannis he knows every houses man power :bang:

If I could ask the king one question, it would be this.

[Frey Pie]

Oh yes, he does. "If Robb needs another army, he'll send word and we'll gather one for him". To Bran, when Bran wants to help Robb in late Game or early Clash.

Time and distance. These 28k men are distributet across an area the size of Europe. The 2000 men are just those directly on his way to Torrhens Square.

100k Tyrells? Winterfell burned? The Ironborn in Moat Cailin?

12k Northmen from four houses out of 15-20 (counting the mountain clans as a single house)

The Starks have. The Tyrells have. The Lannisters haven't.

Because no one has gathered them in one spot - yet.

Actually, ser rodrick says in clash(or the end of got, i dont recall) that if his grace needs another army he will send for one. I understand were you are coming from and respect your ideas and opinion, but if there are no more fighting men in the north westeros is screwed come the winter.

They are spread throughout the north, in small villages and holdfasts. The north is vast, its not as if they are sitting around twiddling their thumbs. They are going about everyday life. In fact I would not be suprised if there are many people in the north who dont even know about robb marching south and becoming king in the north. As well, if all robb could muster was 20k his decision to march south was incredibly stupid, as was the decision of any stark to ever march south if all they could muster was 20k.

Well said fellas :cheers:

[Damar]

Actually, ser rodrick says in clash(or the end of got, i dont recall) that if his grace needs another army he will send for one. I understand were you are coming from and respect your ideas and opinion, but if there are no more fighting men in the north westeros is screwed come the winter.

..But it is. Seriously, when the Others come everyone is screwed, even more so because nobody is going to be willing to set aside their differences and fight a common foe, there is far too much bad blood and bad leadership for any unification to occur.

They are spread throughout the north, in small villages and holdfasts. The north is vast, its not as if they are sitting around twiddling their thumbs. They are going about everyday life. In fact I would not be suprised if there are many people in the north who dont even know about robb marching south and becoming king in the north. As well, if all robb could muster was 20k his decision to march south was incredibly stupid, as was the decision of any stark to ever march south if all they could muster was 20k.

Not like he had a choice in the matter, he had to save his father. And he was expecting both the Riverlands and the Vale to back him, raising his numbers to 60k at least.

[E-Ro]

..But it is. Seriously, when the Others come everyone is screwed, even more so because nobody is going to be willing to set aside their differences and fight a common foe, there is far too much bad blood and bad leadership for any unification to occur.

I dont think this. The first men will stop the others. Either with stannises brilliant leadership or with danys dragons.

Not like he had a choice in the matter, he had to save his father. And he was expecting both the Riverlands and the Vale to back him, raising his numbers to 60k at least.

If all he had was 20k declaring himself king in the north was very stupid. And that was a choice. Remeber when he declares himself king in the north he knows the vale wont help him.

[King Aemon I]

We talking about the beginning of the ASOIF books? If so I would guess something like this:

Stark - 35,000

Lannister - 40,000

Baratheon - 20,000

Tyrell - 50,000

Tully - 20,000

Arryn - 30,000

Martell - 50,000

Greyjoy - 15,000

How did Renly -king of Baratheons and Tyrells- raised 90k men then? And he did it without Arbor and some Stormlords..

[Damar]

If all he had was 20k declaring himself king in the north was very stupid. And that was a choice. Remeber when he declares himself king in the north he knows the vale wont help him.

Perhaps I'm remembering it from the show, but was it not the bannermen who forced the issue? Also what choice did he have? Kneel to those who paralzed his brother, murdered his father and hold his sisters captive?

And why do people think Dorne would have 50k troops? It's a mostly barren sun-scorched land who relies on outlasting invaders than fighting them on open ground.

[E-Ro]

Perhaps I'm remembering it from the show, but was it not the bannermen who forced the issue? Also what choice did he have? Kneel to those who paralzed his brother, murdered his father and hold his sisters captive?

They did not force it, the greatjon declared him king and robb could have said no, but he said yes. I would think, having just gotten involved in a rather large war without the ability to retreat to moat calin(due to the riverlords) they would have thought a little longer if the manpower situation was so dire.

[Damar]

They did not force it, the greatjon declared him king and robb could have said no, but he said yes. I would think, having just gotten involved in a rather large war without the ability to retreat to moat calin(due to the riverlords) they would have thought a little longer if the manpower situation was so dire.

If he said no, than there's even less reason for the bannermen to fight if not for their independance.

And they didn't really have manpower issues given they were soundly defeating the Lannisters despite their superior numbers again and again, and only after a disastrous combination of unforseen events started to go on the retreat.

[Frey Pie]

And why do people think Dorne would have 50k troops? It's a mostly barren sun-scorched land who relies on outlasting invaders than fighting them on open ground.

Nobody really who has given any thought to the matter thinks they can get 50000. It all stems from Quentyns-Dorne is 50k spears line. Its the least populous of the seven kingdoms, and Doran states its not powerful. I would think at home 25000 is the number at home. Away from home the 10000 Dornish men Prince Lewyn brought to the Trident is a large proportion of the power they would be able to bring away from Dorne

[armidil0]

Can anybody give me a good estimate of just how many men a powerful minor lord would have? Think, a rung below the Wardens. One rung below Tyrells, Tully's, Starks, Lannisters, ect.

[Frey Pie]

Can anybody give me a good estimate of just how many men a powerful minor lord would have? Think, a rung below the Wardens. One rung below Tyrells, Tully's, Starks, Lannisters, ect.

Go on to my profile and look at the last topic i made

[King Aemon I]

Can anybody give me a good estimate of just how many men a powerful minor lord would have? Think, a rung below the Wardens. One rung below Tyrells, Tully's, Starks, Lannisters, ect.

Karstarks made 2300 for Robb's cause..

Manderlys 1500.. But they were creating a fleet too..

Depends on the land actually.. Ghaston Grey Sharp Point or Sunkenwood can't rally more than 2- 2.5k. But Goldengrove or Whent on the other hand, might raise 6-7k... Maybe 8..

[King Aemon I]

If he said no, than there's even less reason for the bannermen to fight if not for their independance.

And they didn't really have manpower issues given they were soundly defeating the Lannisters despite their superior numbers again and again, and only after a disastrous combination of unforseen events started to go on the retreat.

They weren't defeating Lannisters.. A few surprise attacks is not victory.. Robb spent 7-8k Northmen just to take down Jaime's 12k and have the Riverlords to his cause.. He had more than 25.000 men and almost 10.000 were riders, yet he didn't unite them to march west or Harrenhal.. He was afraid of encountering Tywin on his own, even if outnumbered him with qualified soldiers.. Not at anytime of the books, I thought Robb was winning.. And even if he was winning, he was never imbalanced the situation so much that new men of the North weren't needed..

[Bright Blue Eyes]

They weren't defeating Lannisters.. A few surprise attacks is not victory.. Robb spent 7-8k Northmen just to take down Jaime's 12k and have the Riverlords to his cause.. He had more than 25.000 men and almost 10.000 were riders, yet he didn't unite them to march west or Harrenhal.. He was afraid of encountering Tywin on his own, even if outnumbered him with qualified soldiers.. Not at anytime of the books, I thought Robb was winning.. And even if he was winning, he was never imbalanced the situation so much that new men of the North weren't needed..

25,000 Lannister casualties and the raided inhabitants of the Westerlands beg to differ.