It is known. Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 When Karstark shouts that Jaime killed his son, Cat replies with "And crippled mine!"In the books, does she know that Jaime pushed Bran? Also if she somehow knows that Jaime crippled Bran why would she free him, and how did she find out?Or perhaps I misheard the line and she said something else, feel free to put me right if i'm just confusing myself :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Cat and Jaime have already had their conversation about Bran in an earlier episode, when Jaime is first captured. She asked him if he knew what happened, and he told her what he did. HBO has split the Cat/Jaime conversation that occurred in the dungeon of Riverrun, where Jaime was imprisoned after the failed rescue attempt organized by Tyrion, into several parts, all occuring in the pen where he is chained to the pole, both before his escape attempt and after his escape attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarouMartell Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 First comment!I don't know if Cat knows in the books that Jaime pushed Bran out of that window, I am just going to answer about the other part of the question, abordindg the subject of " why would she free him " . Simple answer : She still thinks Arya and Sansa are held by Cerser in King's Landing. Bran is crippled but alive in Winterfell ( what she thinks ). So she'd rather have her daughter's back, than avenge her son and force Cersei to kill Sansa ( and supposedly Arya ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currawong Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Cat and Jaime have already had their conversation about Bran in an earlier episode, when Jaime is first captured. She asked him if he knew what happened, and he told her what he did. HBO has split the Cat/Jaime conversation that occurred in the dungeon of Riverrun, where Jaime was imprisoned after the failed rescue attempt organized by Tyrion, into several parts, all occuring in the pen where he is chained to the pole, both before his escape attempt and after his escape attempt.Yes to this. In the book, Jaime was being held the entire time at Riverrun, first in a secure tower cell (reserved for prisoners of rank likely to be exchanged or ransomed) and then in the dungeon after his failed escape attempt. The entire long Cat / Jaime scene occurs in the dungeons towards the end of ACOK, where the two engage in verbal sparring and then an "I'll answer your questions if you answer mine" procedure.We've actually had this scene spread over three parts of the series, with additional dialogue of course. There was the scene in Series 1 where Jaime is first captured and he admits to pushing Bran out the window, saying he'd hoped to kill him, not just cripple him (can't remember whether it was episode 9 or 10). Then we got the brief scene in Series 2, Episode 1, which basically served to remind us all that Jaime exists ;) and that he is being held prisoner. Now we have the rest of the conversation, and - just as per the book - it ends with Cat calling for Brienne's sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 As screwed up as the Jamie arc is in the tv show, I think I buy Cat releasing Jamie at this point, once it was pointed out to me that LF told Cat that Tryion would release the girls for Jamie (still have to verify this and how accurate it is)One thing I picked up rereading the book is that Cleo seemed to have given the impression that it was jamie for the girls quid pro quo.From what I read of Tyrion's dialogue earlier in ACOK, he said release Jamie and we will consider releasing the girls.Assuming that is intentional, it reduces Cat's chances to get her girls back and makes her decision more tragic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 First comment!I don't know if Cat knows in the books that Jaime pushed Bran out of that window, I am just going to answer about the other part of the question, abordindg the subject of " why would she free him " . Simple answer : She still thinks Arya and Sansa are held by Cerser in King's Landing. Bran is crippled but alive in Winterfell ( what she thinks ). So she'd rather have her daughter's back, than avenge her son and force Cersei to kill Sansa ( and supposedly Arya )Hey MarouMartell, first post, Welsome to Westeros! Have fun posting, and always keep your sense of humour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Rickon Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I think they've done a lot in the show to justify Cat freeing Jamie - far more than in the book. In the book I thought she was a complete idiot who screwed everything up for everyone. In the show, you understand her more. She's had Littlefinger tell her that a deal can be made, jamie for the girls. Then, knowing that Jamie was her only tradeable item for her girls, she realized that the angry mob of Robb's soldiers would kill jamie before morning. What else could she do? To her mind, Sansa and Arya's life depends entirely on Jamie's survival. It's pretty cut and dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourniquet Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 She hasn't released him in the show yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I think Cat is going to be the one to take his hand in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogorath Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 She hasn't released him in the show yet... Well, it's basically happening right now. The ending of that scene -- Brienne, your sword -- is very similar to the scene in the book, if I remember. Either way, she releasing him. I also don't think she's taking the place of Vargo Hoat. Someone else might, but just for tv purposes, I think that's something we're actually going to to witness. I would never pass up showing that scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourniquet Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Well, it's basically happening right now. The ending of that scene -- Brienne, your sword -- is very similar to the scene in the book, if I remember. Either way, she releasing him. I also don't think she's taking the place of Vargo Hoat. Someone else might, but just for tv purposes, I think that's something we're actually going to to witness. I would never pass up showing that scene. I'm just saying there there is a chance that she doesn't do it...I was hoping that she would hear of Bran and Rickon's death before she sets him free as I think that is a major motivating factor for her.She can't cut off his hand because his fight with Brienne is important to establish them as adversaries/best friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It is known. Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 I'm just saying there there is a chance that she doesn't do it...I was hoping that she would hear of Bran and Rickon's death before she sets him free as I think that is a major motivating factor for her. She can't cut off his hand because his fight with Brienne is important to establish them as adversaries/best friends! Plus i'd hope that Cat would be smart enough to realise that Sansa and Arya would then be sent back missing a hand too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourniquet Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Plus i'd hope that Cat would be smart enough to realise that Sansa and Arya would then be sent back missing a hand too.This. In the books Jaime makes it a point to note that Cat or Brienne (by way of Cat) did not take his hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeanCounter Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Sorry to say, but it seems to me like most of this is off-topic. It's mostly irrelevant where Jaime was imprisoned or what Cat's reasons are for releasing him. The question is, in the book version does she have any idea that Bran was pushed instead of simply falling?I'm no expert myself - but I have been rereading these things for years now - and I reacted the same way as the OP. Yes, in the show Jaime has fessed up to her. But in the books' world I'm pretty sure that Jaime and Cersei are the only ones who know about that misdeed. ...although it's not as if the Starks and Lannisters have much room for their mutual hadred to grow any larger if the news were to come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear Us Roar Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 He confessed to her when they first caught him. SHe freed him because she had just heard about what happened to her sons and wanted to get her daughters back no matter what the cost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It is known. Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 Thanks everyone for answering my question, I missed the first two episodes of season 2 and they've not shown repeats yet so I never saw the bit with Jaime :( I'll need to rewatch the ep in season 1 when they capture him, must have missed his confession :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currawong Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Sorry to say, but it seems to me like most of this is off-topic. It's mostly irrelevant where Jaime was imprisoned or what Cat's reasons are for releasing him. The question is, in the book version does she have any idea that Bran was pushed instead of simply falling?I'm no expert myself - but I have been rereading these things for years now - and I reacted the same way as the OP. Yes, in the show Jaime has fessed up to her. But in the books' world I'm pretty sure that Jaime and Cersei are the only ones who know about that misdeed. ...although it's not as if the Starks and Lannisters have much room for their mutual hadred to grow any larger if the news were to come out.BC, it is "relevant" because we were trying to answer a question in detail, by explaining that in both the book and the TV series, Cat does know that Jaime pushed Bran out the window. However, the timing of that explanation has been altered between Book and Show because the writers have split the big Cat / Jaime scene which occurs at the end of ACOK across two seasons, part at the end of Season 1, and the rest of it in this episode. And the change of location is relevant too, because they have omitted Riverrun entirely and had Jaime being hauled around in chains with the army - that chainge has necessitated other changes in scenes.I am very sorry if we bored you by answering a question with more than just a Yes/No, with the discussion explaining things further by showing the changes between book and TV screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I think Cat is going to be the one to take his hand in the show. Lol, a second first poster! Welcome to Westeros, Sand!ETA: But no, I doubt Cat will cut off his hand. Like the others mentioned above, she has daughters with the Lannisters, doing that would be foolish. And it would show she has no honour, and she wouldn't want to be like Jaime, would she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeanCounter Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 You're right, I went home and found it. Jaime admits it very matter-of-factly just a few pages after his famous "There are no men like me. There's only me."Thanks for being patient with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippypoodle Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 One thing I picked up rereading the book is that Cleo seemed to have given the impression that it was jamie for the girls quid pro quo. Cleo? Does Cat have access to the psychic friends network? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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