Three-eyed crow and the last Blackfyre pretender

[NitzanLeo]

I read a little of the Heresy threads, but I seem not to follow much of what's being talked about, though I can tell the people posting in them got their shit together. Perhaps all this catagorization of 'magic' in ASOIAF is dependant on the question if greenseer's powers are considered magic (unless the Weirwood Paste/Jojen Paste theory is true), and if warging is considered magic. Greenseeing might be blood magic, but warging definitely isn't, so it actually only falls to that currently. Though we've already seen magic that isn't entirely 'blood magic', on the extent that blood/one's life is the source of power for the spell. Seeing the future in the flame, which I myself consider magic, isn't known to be powered by life force or blood, and the things Mel sees in the fires, as well as Moqorro later are often true. They seem to know things that they had no idea would transpire without the fires. Even Davos, IIRC, sees something in the flames, though I seem to forget what it was, and there was no blood sacrifice on his part for that ability.

[TheKingwithTheSword]

There actually isn't any evidence of BR using blood magic, IIRC, nor any logical reason to speculate about it.

Ok true. I should have worded it different. What I was tryin to get at is that BR used a form of Valyrian lore. IIRC Qyburn said, All Valyrian magic was rooted in fire or blood. So his glamour to appear as Maynard Plumm could be considered rooted in Fire because Mel used it for Mance. and the Kindly Man said sorcerers use glamour weaving shadows which again points to fire for only light can cast a shadow. I just assume the Fire and Blood magic are relevant to one another if not connected. I Agree there isnt alot of evidence concerning this however.

[TheKingwithTheSword]

Where are these Heresy threads??

[William VII]

Hi first time poster,

Does this give a whole new meaning to varys "little birds" if he is indeed in league with BR

amirite

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Hi first time poster,

Does this give a whole new meaning to varys "little birds" if he is indeed in league with BR

amirite

Wow new poster, what an excellent point!, but I think BR is against the Blackfyre's he doesn't support them. but it would be crazy if this whole time Varys was actually getting info from Bloodraven, and that's how he knew so much :) good idea!

[MikeDC]

My guess is that many of these theories dovetail nicely into Blood Raven opposing Aegon. Consider why did BR hate Bittersteel and love Daeron in the first place? Why did he side with Daeron against Daemon? There's usually a reason for hatred. Or at least justification. And the obvious one is that BR looked at Bittersteel as someone who

1. Valued Daemon's superficial qualities and desires over Daeron's claim.

2. Goaded Daemon into rebellion.

3. Throw in the theory of magic and natural ability here. BR saw that Daeron's claime was superior because, despite his not being the physical equal of Daemon, he was wise, just, and would do the right things for the Kingdom in the long run.

Fast forward a hundred years, and these things would all make BR look at Aegon as singularly unsuited to the Iron Throne and the task of fighting off the Others. And in fact, Aegon's actions themselves will likely prove this point. Aegon is likely to take King's Landing and then try to consolidate power?

Does he seem likely to march North to join up with Stannis, the Northmen, or the Wildlings to unite them and fight the others? Of course not. He'll take the perspective of most everyone else in the South, that the talk of the Others is nonsense, and that the rest of that lot are Rebels and he shouldn't stop them from decimating each other.

Thus, he'll not come and save them.

From BR's perspective then, I'd guess the first priority is actually stopping or slowing down the Others, but putting a real Targ on the Iron Throne is important too, because for magical/leadership/ability reasons, a Jon Snow/Targaryen/Stark or Dany are the right people to actually stop them.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

My guess is that many of these theories dovetail nicely into Blood Raven opposing Aegon. Consider why did BR hate Bittersteel and love Daeron in the first place? Why did he side with Daeron against Daemon? There's usually a reason for hatred. Or at least justification. And the obvious one is that BR looked at Bittersteel as someone who

1. Valued Daemon's superficial qualities and desires over Daeron's claim.

2. Goaded Daemon into rebellion.

3. Throw in the theory of magic and natural ability here. BR saw that Daeron's claime was superior because, despite his not being the physical equal of Daemon, he was wise, just, and would do the right things for the Kingdom in the long run.

Fast forward a hundred years, and these things would all make BR look at Aegon as singularly unsuited to the Iron Throne and the task of fighting off the Others. And in fact, Aegon's actions themselves will likely prove this point. Aegon is likely to take King's Landing and then try to consolidate power?

Does he seem likely to march North to join up with Stannis, the Northmen, or the Wildlings to unite them and fight the others? Of course not. He'll take the perspective of most everyone else in the South, that the talk of the Others is nonsense, and that the rest of that lot are Rebels and he shouldn't stop them from decimating each other.

Thus, he'll not come and save them.

From BR's perspective then, I'd guess the first priority is actually stopping or slowing down the Others, but putting a real Targ on the Iron Throne is important too, because for magical/leadership/ability reasons, a Jon Snow/Targaryen/Stark or Dany are the right people to actually stop them.

Do you think that Bran's or Bloodraven's power could stretch all the way to Mereen? Or are they confined to Westeros? Could they even stretch all the way to KL or Dorne? I am very confused by all the mechanic of their powers.

[MikeDC]

So am I. My guess is that his power is the ability to warg into pretty much any animal or Weirwood, so I'd think he can only see as far as those go. So at this point mostly the North. I think most of that power really derives from the knowledge that comes from being able to "record" and sift through all sorts of conversations. Thus, I don't imagine him having much knowledge or ability to help Dany unless she shows up somewhere in the North (which I do think will be kinda likely since Aegon probably will have secured the South by then... just my $0.02).

On the other hand, I would imagine he knows exactly who Jon Snow is, and seems to have put him in position to lead the fight against the others.

[Ghost's Shadow]

A bird can fly past the North.. ;)

[William VII]

sorry after posting above I have read alot on the forums here since, I agree varys and illyrio are blackfyre supporters undoubtedly.

was a fun theory tho.

my other is that ageon/gc still has the sword "blackfyre" and have brought it home to westeros where in the hands of our one and only jon snow becomes lightbringer.

amidst salt and smoke i'm not sure yet, now he has "died" perhaps his vows are released he will leave the north momentarily

[aryagonnakill]

Do you think that Bran's or Bloodraven's power could stretch all the way to Mereen? Or are they confined to Westeros? Could they even stretch all the way to KL or Dorne? I am very confused by all the mechanic of their powers.

Bran saw across the narrow sea in Game of Thrones when he also saw into the Lands of Always Winter.

[William VII]

why cant vars and llyrio still be true targ supporters and plot to bring home aegon (either blackfyre or completely fake) in order to draw dany away from mereen

which supports the theory that br in league with varys

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Bran saw across the narrow sea in Game of Thrones when he also saw into the Lands of Always Winter.

that's true, and a bird can fly anywhere, so as long as he is warging a bird, i guess he could go anywhere.

[MikeDC]

that's true, and a bird can fly anywhere, so as long as he is warging a bird, i guess he could go anywhere.

Not that it makes any sense to tie this stuff to reality, but even birds, and I'd guess, magical psychic connections have some kind of limited range :)

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Not that it makes any sense to tie this stuff to reality, but even birds, and I'd guess, magical psychic connections have some kind of limited range :)

I am not sure one way or the other. I mean they can travel through time many years in the past..........Are there weirwoods trees across the narrow sea? I know when Arya walks into the Fm temple the first time she opens the door and it has a weirwood handle. So that would suggest weirwoods are in Essos, although I don't remember hearing about one anywhere else........... does anyone know?

[Prince of the North]

I am not sure one way or the other. I mean they can travel through time many years in the past..........Are there weirwoods trees across the narrow sea? I know when Arya walks into the Fm temple the first time she opens the door and it has a weirwood handle. So that would suggest weirwoods are in Essos, although I don't remember hearing about one anywhere else........... does anyone know?

If I recall correctly, the door to the Temple of the Many-Faced God had a door that was half-weirwood and half-ebony (or other black colored wood) so it had a sort of "yin and yang" symbolism to it.

[sertravisredbeard]

Doesn't the House of the Undying have a door that's part weirwood too?

[Suzanna Stormborn]

If I recall correctly, the door to the Temple of the Many-Faced God had a door that was half-weirwood and half-ebony (or other black colored wood) so it had a sort of "yin and yang" symbolism to it.

Right, so there probably are weirwoods in Essos, it would stand to reason they dont get them shipped in from westeros. So Bran should be able to see across the narrow sea as well correct?

[Prince of the North]

Right, so there probably are weirwoods in Essos, it would stand to reason they dont get them shipped in from westeros. So Bran should be able to see across the narrow sea as well correct?

Well, it depends on the nature of the whole ability to see "through" weirwoods. Does it have to be "living"? Does it have to actually be connected by roots or whatever? I don't know but if Martin writes that greenseers can "see" across the narrow sea into Essos then I'm ok with that (because Martin checks in with me on all his writing decisions :P)

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Well, it depends on the nature of the whole ability to see "through" weirwoods. Does it have to be "living"? Does it have to actually be connected by roots or whatever? I don't know but if Martin writes that greenseers can "see" across the narrow sea into Essos then I'm ok with that (because Martin checks in with me on all his writing decisions :P)

LOL good to know!! I think it has to be living for sure. but i dont remember reading anything about weirwoods groves in Essos anywhere, maybe i'm wrong though?