Dragonfish Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I do think R+L=J true but unless rhaegar believed his unborn son (Jon) was the ptwp and the song of Ice and fire then I don't see why the 3KG were at the ToJ and not anywhere elseRhaegar probably did believe Jon was the PwwP, or one of the heads of the dragon, so there's your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nQthing Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 It doesn't answer my question it only gives an assumption to my theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonkey Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Elia was his first and legal wife, her son was the current heir. Cersei had Roberts bastards all killed but Elia is gunna just sit back and be OK with Rhaegar having new kids with another high born lady?You think Elia is the same person as Cersei and Rhaegar is just going to sit idly by when Elia plots to have Lyanna's children murdered? You're asking questions that can have many different answers that could go both ways. If you stick with what we know from the books then all signs point to R+L=J being true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 It doesn't answer my question it only gives an assumption to my theoryI'm not entirely clear on what your theory is, could you repeat it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Martell Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 Martell, Darry and Selmy were at the Trident with Rhaegar. Jaime was in KL with Aerys, Aegon and Viserys. All bases are covered.Jaimie was the youngest KG in history yet he was charged to guard the Red Keep and majority of the royal family alone? Rhaegar left the ToJ to join Martell, Darry, and Selmy in battle so it was known that Jaimie was left alone. This doesn't just seem to fit with the KG sworn duty to protect the king. Yes there are instances of single KG members going off on other missions, but when has the majority left and 1 Knight left behind to guard the current king and 2nd in-line ( a teenage KG left behind at that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Martell Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 You think Elia is the same person as Cersei and Rhaegar is just going to sit idly by when Elia plots to have Lyanna's children murdered? You're asking questions that can have many different answers that could go both ways. If you stick with what we know from the books then all signs point to R+L=J being true.No Cersei and Elia are not alike, i'm saying that having a paramour and having babies with other high born ladies is not the same thing and I don't think Elia would be OK with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Jaimie was the youngest KG in history yet he was charged to guard the Red Keep and majority of the royal family alone? Rhaegar left the ToJ to join Martell, Darry, and Selmy in battle so it was known that Jaimie was left alone. This doesn't just seem to fit with the KG sworn duty to protect the king. Yes there are instances of single KG members going off on other missions, but when has the majority left and 1 Knight left behind to guard the current king and 2nd in-line ( a teenage KG left behind at that).Rhaegar returned to a King's Landing a few months into the war, at which time there were still up to four Kingsguard knights guarding Aerys. And even during the Trident, the three Kingsguard knights who were fighting were still in some sense defending Aerys. I have written basically these exact words several times in this thread. It's getting annoying having to repeat them to posters who apparently don't bother to read the thread they are posting in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amitaibs3 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Jaimie was the youngest KG in history yet he was charged to guard the Red Keep and majority of the royal family alone? Rhaegar left the ToJ to join Martell, Darry, and Selmy in battle so it was known that Jaimie was left alone. This doesn't just seem to fit with the KG sworn duty to protect the king. Yes there are instances of single KG members going off on other missions, but when has the majority left and 1 Knight left behind to guard the current king and 2nd in-line ( a teenage KG left behind at that).Maybe because they didn't know(much like Rhaegar himself) the throne will lose at the battle of the Trident? There was no reason for them to think, they were just obeying orders from Rhaeger. He thought that he the other KG members will come back to KL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jem Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Jaimie was the youngest KG in history yet he was charged to guard the Red Keep and majority of the royal family alone? Rhaegar left the ToJ to join Martell, Darry, and Selmy in battle so it was known that Jaimie was left alone. This doesn't just seem to fit with the KG sworn duty to protect the king. Yes there are instances of single KG members going off on other missions, but when has the majority left and 1 Knight left behind to guard the current king and 2nd in-line ( a teenage KG left behind at that).Don't blame me, I didn't order it. Blame Aerys or Rhaegar.In any case, I would think that (in theory) any KG = any other KG (if not in practice). If someone is good enough to receive a white cloak, he is perceived (at least officially) as being good enough to guard the king. It is not like Jaime was just some trainee, he was as much a KG as any of them (though really he was there for Aerys to spite Tywin, but officially he had to be seen to be as equal as any of them).Besides which Aerys, Aegon and Viserys were 'safely' within the walls of the Red Keep. There were other knights and guards there to protect them. It is not as if the Gold Cloaks and all of the knights in residence would just stand back and only let Jaime defend the king. The KG are an honour guard as much as they are a last line of defense, but they are not always the only line of defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nQthing Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I'm not entirely clear on what your theory is, could you repeat it?Rhaegar saw lyanna at the tourney of hannerhal and fell in love. He named her the queen of love and beauty. Because Elia was unfit to make the third head he saw lyanna fit and took her to the ToJ. During the war rhaegar ordered dayne, Hightower and whent to guard lyanna because she is giving birth to who he believes will be the ptwp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Martell Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 Rhaegar returned to a King's Landing a few months into the war, at which time there were still up to four Kingsguard knights guarding Aerys. And even during the Trident, the three Kingsguard knights who were fighting were still in some sense defending Aerys. I have written basically these exact words several times in this thread. It's getting annoying having to repeat them to posters who apparently don't bother to read the thread they are posting in.Really? the 3 KG on the Trident are going to "defend" an attack on the king? OK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Rhaegar saw lyanna at the tourney of hannerhal and fell in love. He named her the queen of love and beauty. Because Elia was unfit to make the third head he saw lyanna fit and took her to the ToJ. During the war rhaegar ordered dayne, Hightower and whent to guard lyanna because she is giving birth to who he believes will be the ptwp.Ok...then I don't understand what your questions have been about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jem Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Rhaegar saw lyanna at the tourney of hannerhal and fell in love. He named her the queen of love and beauty. Because Elia was unfit to make the third head he saw lyanna fit and took her to the ToJ. During the war rhaegar ordered dayne, Hightower and whent to guard lyanna because she is giving birth to who he believes will be the ptwp.Well that is (pretty much) most everyone else's theory too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Really? the 3 KG on the Trident are going to "defend" an attack on the king? OK...Fighting on the Trident is defending the king, because the army they are fighting is the army that intends to usurp his throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toccs Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Rhaegar saw lyanna at the tourney of hannerhal and fell in love. He named her the queen of love and beauty. Because Elia was unfit to make the third head he saw lyanna fit and took her to the ToJ. During the war rhaegar ordered dayne, Hightower and whent to guard lyanna because she is giving birth to who he believes will be the ptwp.Ok, and what's you're question that nobody has answered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jem Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Really? the 3 KG on the Trident are going to "defend" an attack on the king? OK...They weren't always at the Trident, for a time they were almost certainly at the Red Keep. And yes, when they were at the Trident technically they were defending the king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nQthing Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Ok...then I don't understand what your questions have been about.Just giving food for thought and questioning my theories. If rhaegar didn't believe Jon was the ptwp than dayne would have been at the trident and LC Hightower would have been with the king Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nQthing Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Ok, and what's you're question that nobody has answered?The same questions everyone else is asking. Just because my theory is the same as 90% of the other people doesn't mean it's right. Only grrm can answer my questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Martell Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 Don't blame me, I didn't order it. Blame Aerys or Rhaegar.In any case, I would think that (in theory) any KG = any other KG (if not in practice). If someone is good enough to receive a white cloak, he is perceived (at least officially) as being good enough to guard the king. It is not like Jaime was just some trainee, he was as much a KG as any of them (though really he was there for Aerys to spite Tywin, but officially he had to be seen to be as equal as any of them).Besides which Aerys, Aegon and Viserys were 'safely' within the walls of the Red Keep. There were other knights and guards there to protect them. It is not as if the Gold Cloaks and all of the knights in residence would just stand back and only let Jaime defend the king. The KG are an honour guard as much as they are a last line of defense, but they are not always the only line of defense.I guess I need clarification on how their vows work. Like if Rhaegar said "guard my new son" does that override their vow to protect the current living king AND rhaegars older son...I know I know, Jaime was there but wouldn't common sense be if one of the 3 at ToJ went to KL once Martell, Darry, Selmy went to the Trident. I guess my question is, is their vow to protect the king at all costs or obey the kings without question and what about if those 2 things conflict? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonkey Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 In the grand scheme of things, I don't think it really matters if Jon is legitimate or not. Dany is unable to have any more children and assuming that YG is fake\dies later, Jon would be the only hope to continue the Targ Dynasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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