what will become of the remaining tullys? will they return in any fashion?

[Scipio Africanus]

This would give us the needed POV at CR and draw Jaime there to kill her. But, if she leaves, then we don't have a POV in KL so I could be wrong here too. But, I have no doubt that the Tyrells will drop the Lannisters and Tommen if they sense opportunity elsewhere, that alliance has been fallig apart for awhile now.

Well that would depend, do we really need a KL POV when the most powerful people in Westeros ("Aegon", Dany persumably, Stan) are not at KL?

Seems to me a good time for a CR POV over a KL POV. Then again that's bad news for Edmure.

[the Scorpion Knight]

I think the blackfish is using the other half of the BWB to "kidnap" edmure and reinstall him later

and jaime and brienne with the BWB will provide the opputunitiy

[Kittykatknits]

I agree with the poster who wants Tullys in Riverrun almost as much as Starks in Winterfell. The Tullys have suffered enough.

And surely I can't be the only one to dislike Genna Lannister/Frey? Cold-bloodedly murder the rightful heir just so she and her husband (to whom she is horrible) can secure their claims on other people's lands they have done nothing to earn, except have a son die in war? Thankfully Jaime chose otherwise.

You aren't the only one. Genna lost me forever when she suggested that Edmure be killed off. Them's fighting words in my book.

[Lyanna Stark]

I think the blackfish is using the other half of the BWB to "kidnap" edmure and reinstall him later

and jaime and brienne with the BWB will provide the opputunitiy

Edmure is being escorted by 400 men though, so that won't be an easy feat by any means. Perhaps Edmure is the valonquar and will murder Cersei as Casterly Rock? Cersei strangled by a floppy fish? :lol:

Good point on Jaime being usable to perhaps free Edmure from captivity.

I know there are a lot of theories about trial by combat, but Jaime has one hand and Brienne is in a bad state after the beating Rorge and Biter gave her. She is listed as having broken an arm and maybe a couple of ribs, she has half her cheek chewed off and then she was almost hanged by UnCat.

You aren't the only one. Genna lost me forever when she suggested that Edmure be killed off. Them's fighting words in my book.

To be fair, Genna isn't wrong in that it could potentially lead to a lot more violence down the road if Edmure is still alive, but I do agree it's really bloody cold hearted. Then again, she is Tywin's sister.

[Lummel]

I don't see the point of the BWB taking Riverrun. They are guerrilla fighters. Their strength comes from mobility and being able to evade contact with forces they can't beat in battle. Tying themselves to a fixed point would be like committing suicide for them, uncertainly an invitation to get trapped.

Also with the Tullys don't forget the long term impact of Edmure's floppy fish. This could limit his ability to spawn the next generation.

I agree with Genna. From the point of view of her and her children the accidental non-survival of the pregnant Roslyn or any child she should bear is the best way to ensure the pacification of the riverlands. In the absence of Jaime and following on from the death of Kevan who is going to be giving the orders at Casterly Rock?

[Lyanna Stark]

I don't see the point of the BWB taking Riverrun. They are guerrilla fighters. Their strength comes from mobility and being able to evade contact with forces they can't beat in battle. Tying themselves to a fixed point would be like committing suicide for them, uncertainly an invitation to get trapped.

True, but they also need some sort of goal, and I would be very surprised if UnCat wasn't after restoring her children or at least some part of her family while murdering Freys and Boltons. She still holds Robb's crown after all. Besides, if it's true what a lot of people think that the Red Wedding 2.0 is going to take place at Riverrun, somebody needs to hold it afterwards. I doubt the BWB is going to leave it abandonded.

Also with the Tullys don't forget the long term impact of Edmure's floppy fish. This could limit his ability to spawn the next generation.

The guy had one case of unfortunate whiskey dick and now he's going to be cursed forever with childlessness? :lol: Be kind Lummel. :P

[Lummel]

Taking and holding Riverrun isn't a sensible objective for a guerilla army that is moving round the countryside in small independent detachments, while harassing the movements of other forces is.

And why/how could there be a Red Wedding mark II? Uncat going to invite Walder frey to marry her as a kiss and make up? Don't see it personally. Anyroad why should I be kind to Edmure? He lets all us red headed people down with his floppyness. Who knows what could happen if word gets around :(.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Taking Riverrun and spending the winter there is possible. So is taking it and burning it down, something UnCat surely prefers to a Frey in her fathers/brothers seat.

Red Wedding Mk II refers to Daven Lannister and his Frey stoat, which may very well happen in Riverrun. Nothing funnier than letting in the wedding crashers through the back door.

[the Scorpion Knight]

I don't see the point of the BWB taking Riverrun. They are guerrilla fighters. Their strength comes from mobility and being able to evade contact with forces they can't beat in battle. Tying themselves to a fixed point would be like committing suicide for them, uncertainly an invitation to get trapped.

gemma, her husband ans children, devan and his bride, with a little trickery all the hostages of the riverlands --> the riverlands united and the lannister regime blown hard and the freys under controll

[Mulled Wino]

I can't see why they would leave Edmure alive, makes no sense, what leverage does he provide the Lannisters or the Freys?

[mcb]

I can't see why they would leave Edmure alive, makes no sense, what leverage does he provide the Lannisters or the Freys?

But now Jaime is Redeeming Himself. Playing nice with other children, not saying bad words, generally becoming warm and fuzzy and friend of the world. Theon has his redemption arc in ADWD, I won't be surprised if the same happens to Victarion in TWOW and maybe Roose Bolton in ADOS.

[Mulled Wino]

But now Jaime is Redeeming Himself. Playing nice with other children, not saying bad words, generally becoming warm and fuzzy and friend of the world. Theon has his redemption arc in ADWD, I won't be surprised if the same happens to Victarion in TWOW and maybe Roose Bolton in ADOS.

I guess, Eure did get him the castle sans bloodshed. Why wpuld he free Edmure later as has been suggested though? I just hope this doesnt go too far

[E-Ro]

The north remembers, there will be a reckoning and yes the tullys will return, if not edmure then at least one of the stark kids will take the tully name. I cannot wait for the complete and utter destruction of the Freys/boltons and lannisters. Root and stem they will all be killed.

[Lummel]

Taking Riverrun and spending the winter there is possible. So is taking it and burning it down, something UnCat surely prefers to a Frey in her fathers/brothers seat.

Red Wedding Mk II refers to Daven Lannister and his Frey stoat, which may very well happen in Riverrun. Nothing funnier than letting in the wedding crashers through the back door.

Hmm.

We've had a massacre at a wedding, a poisoning at a wedding, a wedding followed by a series of murders, a wedding followed by an attempted poisoning and a seizure of power and I think four less violent weddings (taking the Dothraki weddings deaths and the implicit and explicit threats at Tyrion's as par for the course).

[tze]

From AGOT:

Bran shook his head. "I was just remembering," he said. "Jory brought us here once, to fish for trout. You and me and Jon. Do you remember?"

"I remember," Robb said, his voice quiet and sad.

"I didn't catch anything," Bran said, "but Jon gave me his fish on the way back to Winterfell."

Could be a hint there.

[Lyanna Stark]

Hmm.

We've had a massacre at a wedding, a poisoning at a wedding, a wedding followed by a series of murders, a wedding followed by an attempted poisoning and a seizure of power and I think four less violent weddings (taking the Dothraki weddings deaths and the implicit and explicit threats at Tyrion's as par for the course).

Well, Stannis did comment that weddings were dangerous to attend these days so who knows? Out of all the non martial events, marriages sure seem the most deadly.

It's interesting with Daven's marriage to his Frey bride because it is possible it will take place at Riverrun, since Riverrun is currently held by Emmon Frey and his wife Genna Lannister. I'm not sure anyone much feels like celebrating a wedding at the Twins after what happened there last time, which makes Riverrun a palatable alternative.

The BWB has also been relentless in hunting Freys. We get Merrett in ASOS where the BWB tricked him into coming with a ransom, then they obviously know Ryman is on his way back after Jaime dismissed him and offed him. It's clear that while the BWB is mostly a guerilla warfare sort of band, they're stepping up their efforts and Tom o Sevens is just too strategically placed within Riverrun to not cause some havoc. It seems pretty obvious he or someone else within the encampment gave the BWB the tip off that Ryman had been dismissed and was going back to the Twins, so there are certainly spies within the Lannister/Frey camp.

[E-Ro]

From AGOT:

Could be a hint there.

OH MY GOD YES.

[Lummel]

Well, Stannis did comment that weddings were dangerous to attend these days so who knows? Out of all the non martial events, marriages sure seem the most deadly...

Tom o'sevens was at Riverrun in AFFC, does he stay? And let's not forget he did cause havoc. Another Frey down and a crown delievered to Uncat.

I'm not sure that Daven would get married in his great-aunt's castle - presumably he has lands back in the west. I don't disagree that the Freys are hunting the BWB, that follows since the BWB are also hunting the Freys

But who can doubt that weddings are intrinsically dangerous - was it not yourself who referred to them as the gilded cages of patriarchy? ;)

[Kittykatknits]

To be fair, Genna isn't wrong in that it could potentially lead to a lot more violence down the road if Edmure is still alive, but I do agree it's really bloody cold hearted. Then again, she is Tywin's sister.

Also with the Tullys don't forget the long term impact of Edmure's floppy fish. This could limit his ability to spawn the next generation.

I agree with Genna. From the point of view of her and her children the accidental non-survival of the pregnant Roslyn or any child she should bear is the best way to ensure the pacification of the riverlands. In the absence of Jaime and following on from the death of Kevan who is going to be giving the orders at Casterly Rock?

I can respect the practicality of Genna's words from a Lannister perspective. But, wishing death on my poor, sweet Edmure is an unforgivable crime in my book.

Taking and holding Riverrun isn't a sensible objective for a guerilla army that is moving round the countryside in small independent detachments, while harassing the movements of other forces is.

And why/how could there be a Red Wedding mark II? Uncat going to invite Walder frey to marry her as a kiss and make up? Don't see it personally. Anyroad why should I be kind to Edmure? He lets all us red headed people down with his floppyness. Who knows what could happen if word gets around :(.

They don't need to hold Riverrun. Just kill lots of people and take some hostages. Or, just kill them.

You know Lummel, your focus on Edmure's floppy fish and admittance that you are red headed..hmmm. Me thinks the man doth protest to much.

From AGOT:

Could be a hint there.

Good catch, but it could also be the Blackfish as his whereabouts are still unknown. There is also the theory floating around that he has the real Jeyne with him too.

[mcb]

The BWB has also been relentless in hunting Freys.

I just had a vision of Lady Stoneheart whispering: "be vewy, vewy quiet, I'm hunting Fweys...". Sorry.