windwaker Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Why does everyone here worship Ned, but hate Jon? Jon is a goody two-shoes just like Ned, yet Jon gets all the crap while Ned is hero-worshiped. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Are you sure you are posting on the right forum? This board pretty much worships Jon Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Because that's a false dichotomy. Jon is also worshipped, and Ned has also his share of "haters" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 People hate Jon? Did I walk through the looking glass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate_dream Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Well "hate" is a strong word but I am glad that they're both dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 What?Next you'll tell me people have diverging opinions of Daenerys, Stannis and Tyrion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandalf the Grey Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Jon is a legend. Although the Jon-worshipping is annoying. I thought a lot of the stuff he did in ADWD was silly and poorly managed. My heart wouldn't break if he does die (and doesn't come back to life) and it would really really suck if it turns out he's Azor Ahai, prophecy, blahblahblah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I've seen a lot more hate for Ned than I have for Jon, who's probably the least hated POV character in the series. If anything, some readers (like myself) just don't find him particularly interesting; I don't think he's not a strong enough character to inspire hatred -- hence why any hate for him is because he's "cliched", and not because of decisions he's made.And let's not pretend the hate for him is anywhere close to the hate for other characters -- namely Sansa, Dany, Cat and Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Anyway, for me personally Ned is a lot more interesting character than Jon for many reasons. He doesn't get contrived plot gifts all the time (unlike Jon), he has to make tough choices much more often and paid for his mistakes. His plotline is also way more interesting IMO - the politics and the intrigues in the capital are much more exciting to read about than Jon's training by Thorne or how he infiltrated the wildlings in the most cliche way possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandalf the Grey Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I was introduced to the franchise by GoT season 1, and never read the book : / I think that Ned is really interesting, but believing that Jon was his bastard just improved his character. Unlike in other shows and books, no man is perfect. But a lot of the stuff Jon did made me think that he had inherited Ned's flair for wise political moves (sarcasm intended). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretNegative Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 He's boring, he has a really weird arc (him rising as a Lord Commander was by far the worst part of ASoS) and he's too much of the typical standard-fantasy-underdog where ASoIaF should really be above those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I don't really understand the "contrivance" or "standard" aspect that stands out to people in Jon's arc specifically as opposed to other characters' plot gifts (Dragons? Arya's coin? LF scheme for Sansa? Tyrion not dying 300 times?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Ice Dragon Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Beheading Janos Slynt was my favorite part of whatever book that moment was in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanon Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I've seen a lot more hate for Ned than I have for Jon, who's probably the least hated POV character in the series. If anything, some readers (like myself) just don't find him particularly interesting; I don't think he's not a strong enough character to inspire hatred -- hence why any hate for him is because he's "cliched", and not because of decisions he's made.And let's not pretend the hate for him is anywhere close to the hate for other characters -- namely Sansa, Dany, Cat and Cersei.This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfellian Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I don't really understand the "contrivance" or "standard" aspect that stands out to people in Jon's arc specifically as opposed to other characters' plot gifts (Dragons? Arya's coin? LF scheme for Sansa? Tyrion not dying 300 times?).This so much!ETA: Every character who's story is not finished will always get this ''plot gifts'' otherwise half of the major ones would have been dead long time ago. Ned story ended in AGOT. Jon, Arya, Sansa, Tyrion, Dany, etc are still not done with theirs. While ASOIAF can be shocking a lot of times Marting does not kill characters just for shock value. Their deaths always serve a purpose to the story as well as the ''plot gifts'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I've seen a lot more hate for Ned than I have for Jon, who's probably the least hated POV character in the series. If anything, some readers (like myself) just don't find him particularly interesting; I don't think he's not a strong enough character to inspire hatred -- hence why any hate for him is because he's "cliched", and not because of decisions he's made.And let's not pretend the hate for him is anywhere close to the hate for other characters -- namely Sansa, Dany, Cat and Cersei.There are lots of characters who don't inspire hatred, like Bran and Ned. It's nothing to do with them not being 'strong characters' though. I don't understand why you have to be capable of making people hate you to be a strong character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 There are lots of characters who don't inspire hatred, like Bran and Ned. It's nothing to do with them not being 'strong characters' though. I don't understand why you have to be capable of making people hate you to be a strong character.GRRM's words, not mine: "If you've created a character and everyone likes them, they're probably a piece of cardboard." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 i don't know if there are more than a handful of people who HATE Jon. Many people love him, and a lot of people are indifferent, but he is a character that is difficult to hate. You can be frustrated by his actions in ADWD, but i'm not sure you can truly hate him. I think it is similar with Ned, people generally like his character, but are frustrated by his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 GRRM's words, not mine: "If you've created a character and everyone likes them, they're probably a piece of cardboard."But everyone doesn't like him. At all. He's just not hated, like Bran and Ned. Are they cardboard?I don't like Arya very much, I don't hate her though and I'm sure anyone else does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I don't really understand the "contrivance" or "standard" aspect that stands out to people in Jon's arc specifically as opposed to other characters' plot gifts (Dragons? Arya's coin? LF scheme for Sansa? Tyrion not dying 300 times?). Because Jon gets a lot more of those plot gifts than anyone else, and in a more contrived and implausible way. IMO, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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