Interesting lines on the re-read? (hindsight)

[housemanderly]

Here's a crackpot theory I came up with, from an early Tyrion chapter in ACOK. Varys takes Tyrion through a tunnel that connects the Hand's chambers to Chataya's, so he can visit Shae. When Tyrion asks Varys about it, this is his response:

"The tunnel was dug for another King's Hand, whose honour would not allow him to enter such a house openly. Chataya has closely guarded the knowledge of its existence."

Doesn't mean much on its own, but after finishing ASOS...

Mysterious King's Hand = Tywin Lannister.

Anyone?

I'm almost certain this was referring to Tywin.

[xspicer89x]

just came across this line in a Jon chapter from CoK:

Jon said, "My lord father believed no man could tell a lie in front of a heart tree. The old gods know when men are lying."

"My father believed the same," said the Old Bear.

Just can't help but think of the weirwood sentinel guarding the Black Gate under the Nightfort. The Old Gods know the brothers of the night's watch that remain true it would seem.

[xspicer89x]

ok so for some reason I just reread dany's last couple chapters in GoT...and I am currently blown away, need some feedback fast to calm my nerves lol. ok so here's my find.

1) when Dany tells MMD to perform her bloodmagic.

...a knife appeared in her hand. Dany never saw where it came from. It looked old; hammered red bronze, leaf-shaped, it's blade covered with ancient glypths. The maegi drew it across the stallion's throat, under the noble head, and the horse screamed and shuddered as the blood poured out of him in a red rush.

Now, compare this to

2) the end scene of Bran III in DwD:

A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand.

"No," said Bran, "no, don't," but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man's feet drummed against the earth . . . but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood.

Anyone else need convincing that MMD worships the Old Gods and not the lord of light? :P WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?!?!?!?

I'm of the opinion that dany's dragons are a power sent from the Old Gods.

"Only death may pay for life"...

"My song will wake powers old and dark. The dead will dance here this night."

It's fairly well accepted that the death of the horse "paid" for Drogo's "life", but one must wonder what happened to Dany's child (who was healthy and kicking not long ago, but who according to MMD had been "monstrous...scaled like a lizard..leather wings like the wings of a bat...had been dead for years"). IMO one of the spirits and shadows that MMD called forth was given life at the cost of the life of Dany's child. The old gods know all, and have witnessed she is indeed the blood of the dragon and unhurt by fire. They know the power she may potentially wield against the Others (especially if the souls and shadows of the dragonkings are part of the old gods). Chances are they are using her as well as Bran as their champions against the others. Bran has his greenseeing abilities and a mentor to guide him. Dany has dragon's blood and an old spirit within her young body to guide her (Illyrio: the young frightened girl died on the dothraki sea, and reborn in her place amongst blood and fire was a fierce and true Targaryan descendant with the blood of aegon the conquerer).

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

err in short, no.

but can I ask thinks MMD is a R'hllorite? and why.

[xspicer89x]

err in short, no.

but can I ask thinks MMD is a R'hllorite? and why.

Ive read some threads of ppl arguing for MMD as a follower of R'hllor. The arguments for are kind of weak, most boil down to her line "there is great healing magic in fire" and the association to the red priest that heals victarions arm (thin i know..).

But there is also the "only death may pay for life", a line used only by her and Dany in GoT (dany who heard it from MMD), used by Jaquen in CoK (who has fairly strong arguments for being a followerer of R'hllor), and used by Queen Selyse in SoS and by Mel as well (both of whom are worshippers of the lord of light). The line is not said in FfC or DwD so far as i know.

[Son of An Other]

ACOK, page 749, Jon's POV:

It's where he's just about to kill Ygritte after having captured her the night before, and he's thinking about Ned and Ice:

"He raised Longclaw over his head, both hands tight around the grip. One cut, with all my weight behind it. He would give her a quick clean death, at least. He was his father's son. Wasn't he? Wasn't he?"

Its not anything really shocking, but I can just sense GRRM toying with us dropping these types of hints. The first two times I read this chapter I took it as him (Jon Snow) trying to live up to his father's example. But now having thoroughly perused these forums and what with the R+L=J theory and what not, it seems to me the GRRM is trying to tell us more, another clue if you will. It's things like this that make me love this series.

[xspicer89x]

ACOK, page 749, Jon's POV:

It's where he's just about to kill Ygritte after having captured her the night before, and he's thinking about Ned and Ice:

"He raised Longclaw over his head, both hands tight around the grip. One cut, with all my weight behind it. He would give her a quick clean death, at least. He was his father's son. Wasn't he? Wasn't he?"

Its not anything really shocking, but I can just sense GRRM toying with us dropping these types of hints. The first two times I read this chapter I took it as him (Jon Snow) trying to live up to his father's example. But now having thoroughly perused these forums and what with the R+L=J theory and what not, it seems to me the GRRM is trying to tell us more, another clue if you will. It's things like this that make me love this series.

nice catch. It's things like this that make the rereads so very interesting and keeps me coming back for more :D

[DrunkSister]

ok so for some reason I just reread dany's last couple chapters in GoT...and I am currently blown away, need some feedback fast to calm my nerves lol. ok so here's my find.

1) when Dany tells MMD to perform her bloodmagic.

...a knife appeared in her hand. Dany never saw where it came from. It looked old; hammered red bronze, leaf-shaped, it's blade covered with ancient glypths. The maegi drew it across the stallion's throat, under the noble head, and the horse screamed and shuddered as the blood poured out of him in a red rush.

Now, compare this to

2) the end scene of Bran III in DwD:

A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand.

"No," said Bran, "no, don't," but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man's feet drummed against the earth . . . but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood.

Anyone else need convincing that MMD worships the Old Gods and not the lord of light? :P WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?!?!?!?

I'm of the opinion that dany's dragons are a power sent from the Old Gods.

"Only death may pay for life"...

"My song will wake powers old and dark. The dead will dance here this night."

It's fairly well accepted that the death of the horse "paid" for Drogo's "life", but one must wonder what happened to Dany's child (who was healthy and kicking not long ago, but who according to MMD had been "monstrous...scaled like a lizard..leather wings like the wings of a bat...had been dead for years"). IMO one of the spirits and shadows that MMD called forth was given life at the cost of the life of Dany's child. The old gods know all, and have witnessed she is indeed the blood of the dragon and unhurt by fire. They know the power she may potentially wield against the Others (especially if the souls and shadows of the dragonkings are part of the old gods). Chances are they are using her as well as Bran as their champions against the others. Bran has his greenseeing abilities and a mentor to guide him. Dany has dragon's blood and an old spirit within her young body to guide her (Illyrio: the young frightened girl died on the dothraki sea, and reborn in her place amongst blood and fire was a fierce and true Targaryan descendant with the blood of aegon the conquerer).

Great find and I love the way you have illustrated your point!

I don't think that MMD worships old gods the way they are worshipped in Westeros because in W. there are CotF and Weirwood Net which makes the difference in what gods are and how religion is understood. But First Men came from Essos so similarities are to be expected and we should look for them.

[xspicer89x]

err in short, no.

but can I ask thinks MMD is a R'hllorite? and why.

oh also forgot about this one:

"Braziers were lit. Mirri Maz Duur tossed a red powder onto the coals. It gave the smoke a spicy scent, a pleasant enough smell, yet Eroeh fled sobbing, and Dany was filled with fear.

--Seems this may be the “smoke for fear powder” that Mel has up her sleeves:

“ . . ., powders to make smoke. A smoke for truth, a smoke for lust, a smoke for fear, and the thick smoke that could kill a man outright."

[xspicer89x]

oh also forgot about this one:

"Braziers were lit. Mirri Maz Duur tossed a red powder onto the coals. It gave the smoke a spicy scent, a pleasant enough smell, yet Eroeh fled sobbing, and Dany was filled with fear.

--Seems this may be the “smoke for fear powder” that Mel has up her sleeves:

“ . . ., powders to make smoke. A smoke for truth, a smoke for lust, a smoke for fear, and the thick smoke that could kill a man outright."

So, i'm wondering... since the general opinion of Mel and her abilities is quite low (i.e. she is often wrong and seems to be more of a novice than the master sorceress she portrays), is it possible that MMD is using the powders in the correct way (i.e. for sacrifice and sorcery) while Mel is only noticing small "side-effects" of the powders (like the inducement of fear).

[xspicer89x]

Another insane foreshadowing line (also RW-related) that I just caught, which essentially describes Catelyn's transformation into Lady Stoneheart:

"After she'd undressed and hung her wet clothing by the fire, she donned a warm wool dress of Tully red and blue, washed and brushed her hair and let it dry, and went in search of Freys."

Just found this one as well in CoK just after she has been given rest in Renly's tent following the melee:

"The steel was polished to such a high sheen that she could see her reflection in the breastplate, gazing back at her as if from the bottom of a deep green pond. The face of a drowned woman, Catelyn thought. Can you drown in grief?"

[kaanchanoone]

The part when Bran, Meera, Jojen and Hodor have taken shelter at Queenscrown... I found this -

"Dusk was settling by the time duck and tale were done..."

A reference to...Duck Tales?

Bahahaha probably not.

[imaginepageant]

This has probably been mentioned, but, on page 359 of AGOT:

"Sometimes Catelyn felt as though her heart had turned to stone."

My face was like :ack: for ten minutes.

[Visenya the Dragon]

The woman with the white hair in Brans last dream is going to be lady Stoneheart who meets up with Stannis and she kills Theon at the tree and gives him to the old gods.

[Jaqen H'guad]

One passage that stuck out to me was from an early Tyrion chapter in ASOS when Tyrion is talking to Tywin about the Westerlings:

"Could the Westerlings and Spicers be such great fools as to believe the wolf can defeat the lion?"

Every once in a very long while, Lord Tywin Lannister would actually threaten to smile; he never did, but the threat alone was terrible to behold. "The greatest fools are ofttimes more clever than the men who laugh at them," he said...

thought this was interesting on a reread

[mathurine]

couldn't find if anyone else has posted it already.

Arya, GoT:

"Suddenly Arya remembered the crypts at Winterfell. They were a lot scarier than this place, she told herself. She'd been just a little girl the first time she saw them. Her brother Robb had taken them down, her and Sansa and baby Bran, who'd been no bigger than Rickon was now. They'd only had one candle between them, and Bran's eyes had gotten as big as saucers as he stared at the stone faces of the Kings of Winter, with their wolves at their feet and their iron swords across their laps. Robb took them all the way down to the end, past Grandfather and Brandon and Lyanna, to show them their own tombs. Sansa kept looking at the stubby little candle, anxious that it might go out. Old Nan had told her there were spiders down here, and rats as big as dogs. Robb smiled when she said that. "There are worse things than spiders and rats," he whispered. "This is where the dead walk." That was when they heard the sound, low and deep and shivery. Baby Bran had clutched at Arya's hand. When the spirit stepped out of the open tomb, pale white and moaning for blood , Sansa ran shrieking for the stairs, and Bran wrapped himself around Robb's leg, sobbing. Arya stood her ground and gave the spirit a punch. It was only Jon, covered with flour. "You stupid," she told him, "you scared the baby," but Jon and Robb just laughed and laughed, and pretty soon Bran and Arya were laug hing too."

[Castellan]

It really make you wonder how much of this GRRM put in on purpose and how much is chance. Obviously most is it is on purpose, I can't help but wonder how he manages to keep track of it all! I wonder what his IQ is.

well, he does take a long time on each book...

ACOK, page 749, Jon's POV:

It's where he's just about to kill Ygritte after having captured her the night before, and he's thinking about Ned and Ice:

"He raised Longclaw over his head, both hands tight around the grip. One cut, with all my weight behind it. He would give her a quick clean death, at least. He was his father's son. Wasn't he? Wasn't he?"

Its not anything really shocking, but I can just sense GRRM toying with us dropping these types of hints. The first two times I read this chapter I took it as him (Jon Snow) trying to live up to his father's example. But now having thoroughly perused these forums and what with the R+L=J theory and what not, it seems to me the GRRM is trying to tell us more, another clue if you will. It's things like this that make me love this series.

This is interesting, because he doesn't do the standard 'right' thing, showing he is not his father's son.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

oh also forgot about this one:

"Braziers were lit. Mirri Maz Duur tossed a red powder onto the coals. It gave the smoke a spicy scent, a pleasant enough smell, yet Eroeh fled sobbing, and Dany was filled with fear.

--Seems this may be the “smoke for fear powder” that Mel has up her sleeves:

“ . . ., powders to make smoke. A smoke for truth, a smoke for lust, a smoke for fear, and the thick smoke that could kill a man outright."

I guess what some see as evidence for MMD being a R'hllorist, I just see as evidence that R'hllors' power is merely natural magic & alchemy they use in order to convert people who are ignorant of this magic to their faith.

So Priests of R'hllor use powders which effect those around them or which cause impressive displays. MMD also uses these she is trained in many arts and magics having studied in several countries and under many tutors. It's reasonable that she would have learnt of these powders and utilises them for her own gain. This is a woman who has sought out a vast knowledge not having just studied the crafts of her own people but having travelled the world in order to learn as much as she can.

I'd say that rather than indicating MMD as a follower of the red faith it shows she has leant the same arts as the priests of R'hllor use. There is good healing power in flame (have paraphrased that) is imo another clue that the Red Priests powers are not gifted by a God but are rather a learnt skill which the Temples teach their trainee priests as a means to convince non believers.

in fact I'm going to add this to my arsenal on the Red god being a fake. cheers.

[xspicer89x]

Can't believe I never noticed this before...

At the end of Arya's last chapter in SoS when she is handing the coin to the ship captain:

"She pressed it into his hand, the small black iron coin that Jaqen H'ghar had given her, so worn the man whose head it bore had no features."

I love that this is actually a Faceless Man coin, and not a coin worn down so much the man had no features :D I guess it was easy to miss by following along with Arya's ignorance but in hindsight its so obvious.

[imaginepageant]

Prologue, AFFC, after Pate gives the key to the alchemist:

Something made Pate hesitate. "Is it some book you want?" Some of the old Valyrian scrolls down in the locked vaults were said to be the only surviving copies in the world.

Tyrion IV, ADWD. Tyrion is ruminating on rare books on the subject of dragons:

And of course there was even less chance of his coming on the fragmentary, anonymous, blood-soaked tome sometimes called Blood and Fire and sometimes The Death of Dragons, the only surviving copy of which was supposedly hidden away in a locked vault beneath the Citadel.

I only noticed it this time because I'm doing a combined reading of AFFC and ADWD, so Pate's story in the AFFC prologue was fresh in my mind. I'm now convinced that this is what the Faceless Man is after. Whether to learn from it or to prevent others from learning from it, I don't know. I'm not even sure what knowledge the book holds, though it seems to be how to kill dragons. I need to find theories on this!