Fallen characters: appreciation thread

[Valyarian rose]

I think that means Queen Nymeria.

Oooh. Now I get it. Lol. Whoops.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Davos's three eldest sons - to die so young :o and for Stannis... -.-'

Rhaenys Targaryen - who was the cutest kid ever

Syrio Forel - because he was a funny teacher

Yoren - honorable bastard

Lord Commander Mormont - who'll feed us CORN CORN CORN???

Those too.

I think that Rhaegar is overestimated. I had to take it out of me.

[Stormcatcher]

Other than the ones mentioned, there's Ygritte, who spawned a catchphrase that annoys me to this day.

Falyse Stokeworth, who didn't deserve what Cersei did to her.

And all those poor dead smallfolk. And all those poor dead animals.

[thewingedwolf]

Daemon Blackfyre - Fought like "the warrior himself" as the Redgrass Field, died protecting the man he defated in combat

Rhaegar Targaryen - Possibly the best king Westeros never had

Ned Stark - Honorable, brave and strong

Arthur Dayne - No one since him has been worthy of the title Sword of the Morning

Robb Stark - Love cost him everything, great military commander, brave and loyal

Tywin Lannister - Badass. Enough said

Oberyn Martell - Wish i could have known more about his character

Lord Commander Mormont - I loved the guy

Rattleshirt - A good vilain

Ygritte - Because I know nothing

[RhaenysBee]

Those too.

I think that Rhaegar is overestimated. I had to take it out of me.

I don't know, Rhaegar was someone Jaime wanted to be. I believe Jaime and Selmy and Ned Stark and everybody who remembered Rhaegar as a great man. Well the only one who remembered otherwise was Robert...

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I don't know, Rhaegar was someone Jaime wanted to be. I believe Jaime and Selmy and Ned Stark and everybody who remembered Rhaegar as a great man. Well the only one who remembered otherwise was Robert...

I see what you mean but the whole Rhaegar love is quite strange to me. He wasn't honorable since he kidnap (or eloped anyway) Lyanna and he was married. His deed has cost the life of his family and many other peoples.

[RhaenysBee]

I see what you mean but the whole Rhaegar love is quite strange to me. He wasn't honorable since he kidnap (or eloped anyway) Lyanna and he was married. His deed has cost the life of his family and many other peoples.

I understand that point, but with the same logic, Robb Stark was responsible for the Red Wedding too. It was Robert who attacked and it was the Lannisters who killed his family. And if honorable people would make the good leaders, Ned Stark would still be Hand and Tywin Lannister wouldn't have been the best Hand in memory. I doN't say honor is not important. But Rhaegar running off with Lyanna was nothing compared to stabbing Aerys, killing Tywin, massacring wedding guests, killing the Targaryen children, flaying Theon, doing what was done to Jeyne Poole, etc etc etc. So Rhaegar is really still a good guy with my measure.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I understand that point, but with the same logic, Robb Stark was responsible for the Red Wedding too. It was Robert who attacked and it was the Lannisters who killed his family. And if honorable people would make the good leaders, Ned Stark would still be Hand and Tywin Lannister wouldn't have been the best Hand in memory. I doN't say honor is not important. But Rhaegar running off with Lyanna was nothing compared to stabbing Aerys, killing Tywin, massacring wedding guests, killing the Targaryen children, flaying Theon, doing what was done to Jeyne Poole, etc etc etc. So Rhaegar is really still a good guy with my measure.

Robb Stark was responsible for the Red Wedding too.

:agree:

[Chaircat Meow]

I understand that point, but with the same logic, Robb Stark was responsible for the Red Wedding too. It was Robert who attacked and it was the Lannisters who killed his family. And if honorable people would make the good leaders, Ned Stark would still be Hand and Tywin Lannister wouldn't have been the best Hand in memory. I doN't say honor is not important. But Rhaegar running off with Lyanna was nothing compared to stabbing Aerys, killing Tywin, massacring wedding guests, killing the Targaryen children, flaying Theon, doing what was done to Jeyne Poole, etc etc etc. So Rhaegar is really still a good guy with my measure.

As I see it, the best case scenario for Rhaegar is having two motives for eloping with Lyanna. He's in love with her, like Robb might have been with Jeyne, when he married her, but he also thinks he needs a third head of the dragon (HotU vision), being into prophecy and all (which Aemon confirms) and Elia can have no more children.

So his actions spring from love and duty dovetailing in a rather convenient fashion and we can't say he was being utterly irresponsible.

On writing this I kind of want to delete it, because being into all this prophecy BS does't seem very sane or responsible anyway.

[barbandazi]

I understand that point, but with the same logic, Robb Stark was responsible for the Red Wedding too. It was Robert who attacked and it was the Lannisters who killed his family. And if honorable people would make the good leaders, Ned Stark would still be Hand and Tywin Lannister wouldn't have been the best Hand in memory. I doN't say honor is not important. But Rhaegar running off with Lyanna was nothing compared to stabbing Aerys, killing Tywin, massacring wedding guests, killing the Targaryen children, flaying Theon, doing what was done to Jeyne Poole, etc etc etc. So Rhaegar is really still a good guy with my measure.

True, however, running off with Lyanna set off a chain of events that led to the downfall of the Targaryan dynasty. I know Rhaegar couldn't have forseen it at the time, and his father made it a lot worse, but in the end although not as bad in itself, this rash decision by Rhaegar brought a lot of bad consequences to the realm.

[RhaenysBee]

Robb Stark was responsible for the Red Wedding too.

:agree:

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Respect for

1) Not holding Walder Frey (only) responsible for the Red Wedding

2) This is the first grown up 'debate' I have with somebody on this forum and I really enjoy it and I'm really grateful for it.

And in that case, I give you that Rhaegar was not so great. I mean I still think he was great, but I understand your measures and morals and in that view, you are just right.

[RhaenysBee]

True, however, running off with Lyanna set off a chain of events that led to the downfall of the Targaryan dynasty. I know Rhaegar couldn't have forseen it at the time, and his father made it a lot worse, but in the end although not as bad in itself, this rash decision by Rhaegar brought a lot of bad consequences to the realm.

Life is not a chess play, Rhaegar had no idea what would happen and he went with the events very responsibly. He led the Targaryen host, he had nothing to do with Jaime killing Aerys. And a rebellion was in the air. The so called "cause" of Robert's rebellion was to overthrow Aerys. Not to fuck Rhaegar because he stole Lyanna. It was because Aerys burned Brandon and Rickard Stark. Even for Robert, the Lyanna stuff would not have been enough. I mean shit happens, your girlfriends leave you for others. And yes, Brandon went to King's Landing because Rhaegar ran off with Lya, but how responsible is running into the capital and calling for the crown prince to come out and die in front of a commonly known MAD king? (I also like Brandon, for the credit. Not just Rhaegar)

As I see it, the best case scenario for Rhaegar is having two motives for eloping with Lyanna. He's in love with her, like Robb might have been with Jeyne, when he married her, but he also thinks he needs a third head of the dragon (HotU vision), being into prophecy and all (which Aemon confirms) and Elia can have no more children.

So his actions spring from love and duty dovetailing in a rather convenient fashion and we can't say he was being utterly irresponsible.

On writing this I kind of want to delete it, because being into all this prophecy BS does't seem very sane or responsible anyway.

No, he was not. He did ONE stupid thing. Who didn't?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Respect for

1) Not holding Walder Frey (only) responsible for the Red Wedding

2) This is the first grown up 'debate' I have with somebody on this forum and I really enjoy it and I'm really grateful for it.

And in that case, I give you that Rhaegar was not so great. I mean I still think he was great, but I understand your measures and morals and in that view, you are just right.

Thank you too for having an open mind :wideeyed:

But of course Walder Frey isn’t the only responsible about RW. It was Robb who broke is promises when Frey fulfilled his promise about letting them pass the Twins. How can someone being played for a fool and don’t react? When someone promises something he or she must keep his/her promise at any cost. It was Robb’s primary mistake to not honor his promise and Frey’s mistake to don’t be faithful to his Tully liege lord.

[Chaircat Meow]

No, he was not. He did ONE stupid thing. Who didn't?

I'm not entirely sure which part of my post you are referring to.

I meant his actions vis-a-vis the Starks seem to be utterly irresponsible, not that he lacked all sense of responsibility the rest of the time.

But he's about 24 or something when he runs off with Lyanna and you'd kind of think he would have grown out of that sort of thing.

[Brony Stark]

Robb Stark was responsible for the Red Wedding too.

:agree:

He was... without him thinking with his cock Late Lord Frey wouldn't have been insulted, and he wouldn't have needed to have revenge

[Significant Other]

Podrick Payne. Loyal, dutiful, humble, fierce, brave, decent, embarassed and stuttering but always trying to do the best for his charge. And only a boy. This aint Kansas Toto, only the good die young.

[RhaenysBee]

I'm not entirely sure which part of my post you are referring to.

I meant his actions vis-a-vis the Starks seem to be utterly responsible, not that he lacked all sense of responsibility the rest of the time.

But he's about 24 or something when he runs off with Lyanna and you'd kind of think he would have grown out of that sort of thing.

The part that Rhaegar was not utterly irresponsible. And one last thing in Rhaegar's defense, if I try and forget that I find the whole Rhaegar-Lyanna run-off really romantic, yes, Rhaegar was 24, but he was sort of a loner 'teen' and then he married Elia, so he never really had a girl-chasing era like Robert or Brandon or so. So he couldn't really grow out of something he was never in, could he? Anyway, you guys are perfectly right saying he shouldn't have ran off with Lya...

Thank you too for having an open mind :wideeyed:

But of course Walder Frey isn’t the only responsible about RW. It was Robb who broke is promises when Frey fulfilled his promise about letting them pass the Twins. How can someone being played for a fool and don’t react? When someone promises something he or she must keep his/her promise at any cost. It was Robb’s primary mistake to not honor his promise and Frey’s mistake to don’t be faithful to his Tully liege lord.

Yes, I agree totally. Though Walder Frey clearly overreacted.

[Brony Stark]

Podrick Payne. Loyal, dutiful, humble, fierce, brave, decent, embarassed and stuttering but always trying to do the best for his charge. And only a boy. This aint Kansas Toto, only the good die young.

Pod isn't fallen... yet :( and I will be sad to see him go

[Jon's Queen Consort]

The part that Rhaegar was not utterly irresponsible. And one last thing in Rhaegar's defense, if I try and forget that I find the whole Rhaegar-Lyanna run-off really romantic, yes, Rhaegar was 24, but he was sort of a loner 'teen' and then he married Elia, so he never really had a girl-chasing era like Robert or Brandon or so. So he couldn't really grow out of something he was never in, could he? Anyway, you guys are perfectly right saying he shouldn't have ran off with Lya...

Yes, I agree totally. Though Walder Frey clearly overreacted.

For Rhaegar: He was 24 and he was going to be a king. Why should someone care about his teen years? He ought to know better, to honor his promises and his family. The history is full of people sacrificing their happiness for the wellbeing of their countries and peoples. This was his role.

For Frey: When someone insults you and your family no deed is overreacting

[RhaenysBee]

For Rhaegar: He was 24 and he was going to be a king. Why should someone care about his teen years? He ought to know better, to honor his promises and his family. The history is full of people sacrificing their happiness for the wellbeing of their countries and peoples. This was his role.

For Frey: When someone insults you and your family no deed is overreacting

I'm not so straightforward on that matter, I guess.

Rhaegar: That is all true, he made a fatal mistake. Still, he couldn't have known, and still the chain of events could have stopped at any next link. The fact that it didn't is not Rhaegar's responsibility in my measures. I mean Aerys burning Rickard and Brandon here. Or Brandon shouting for Rhaegar to come out and die. And yes, he should have known better. But I still don't find it in my heart to condemn Rhaegar for willing to be happy just for a short while with Lyanna. No matter how he dishonored Elia with it, or what it resulted in. And everything is relative. The whole stuff depends on who you compare Rhaegar to. And I admit that the whole basis of my point is mostly emotional... :stunned: