Did Jon "steal" Val?

[bemused]

I think Jon will be the one to fully expose how outmoded and useless the political aspects of the NW vow have become. ( He's already begun. )They may have been practical in the past ( perhaps since Aegon and the conquest ?) but something new is needed now.

So I think he will take a wife , father children, wear a crown , and win glory whether he seeks it or not ...All the while remaining true to the core components of the oath - I am the sword in the darkness , etc. ( all the "I am"s ) and that his watch will not end until his death.

From what we've read so far , I think Val is the woman he's likely to marry. That doesn't necessarily mean all will end in roses for them. If he is to be the hero of his age , there usually is something bittersweet in tales of heroes in mythology.( Not heroes of popular romance.)

[Lady Arya's Song]

Love your post bemused and I am in total agreement regarding the political aspects of the NW vows..not only the NW but the king's guard's vows and the degeneration of that institution as well.

The one thing I am afraid might happen to Jon Snow is found right in his second POV back in AGOT. When he goes in to see Bran who is lying in a coma, Martin uses adjectives that give us a picture of Bran turing into a tree. Jon is crying. He faces down Catelyn and reaches down and kisses Bran on the mouth. I hope its not true, however Martin might have given us the clue right there that in the end Jon might sacrifice himself to get Bran out of that tree. Somehow if Jon figues out Bran is locked in some tree underground, I can see him going and dying trying to free his crippled brother.

[Sailor's Wife]

Just reread it--you are right. "His skin stretched tight over bones like sticks . . . He looked half a leaf, as if the first strong wind would carry him off to his grave." Interesting idea, and I hope not, too.

[bemused]

I don't think Bran will be trapped in the tree for some time , yet ... So far , he's only in the tree throne intermittently . Perhaps he won't have to stay attached until he reaches the point where his life could not be prolonged without it.( As we see BR , now )

I have a feeling when that time comes , it will be a throne under the heart tree at WF , and that Bran still has more travels ahead of him.

[Ser Kneeler]

It's probably been discussed over and over again, but which actress is your top choice to play Val?

[Ghost's Shadow]

Make a thread about it? This is about stealing in the books?

[Ser Kneeler]

ummm, or how about nevermind then

[Dagon Greyjoy]

In a weird way, I'd like that: Join going wildling again is pretty much the only thing that could redeem him in my eyes: Maybe after the Night's Watch betrayed him, he'll finally know the Wildlings were the only people actually willing to treat him as an equal, a friend, an ally. I'd love to read about Jon's wildling epiphany. I'd actually root for him, I promise.

[finger]

First, Jon hasn't stolen Val.

Val went and looked for Tormund. They made the way back together. And Tormund is a brute, not a fool. He has noticed there's sexual tension.

The quote about Tormund goading Jon into stealing Val is hilarious. Val is between upset and angry, but she's got pride. If you read carefully, it's like she's challeging him to dare try to steal her, and warns he'll have to be gelded if he's to keep those beastly vows. I think to remember I laughed when I read it.

But that was before Jon raised a Wildling host to storm WF, and some plotters in the NW stabbed Jon hurting him nastily. Add a letter declaring Stannis dead, a giant thumping around with half a queen' knight's corpse and Val wanting to kill Shereen, and you'll have a hell of a mess.

I guess Jon will survive somehow, but I wonder what he'll find when he recovers. At least, those who support him seem to hold the thrumping hand.

Crackpot prophecy. As Jon was hurt close to whoever's tower, where Val dwells, he'll be taken there to be healed. He'll be taken care of there, and he'll have to prove he's strong enough to get up and face what's in the outside. I don't know, a little oathbreaking might serve, har, har, har.

[~DarkHorse~]

Love your post bemused and I am in total agreement regarding the political aspects of the NW vows..not only the NW but the king's guard's vows and the degeneration of that institution as well.

The one thing I am afraid might happen to Jon Snow is found right in his second POV back in AGOT. When he goes in to see Bran who is lying in a coma, Martin uses adjectives that give us a picture of Bran turing into a tree. Jon is crying. He faces down Catelyn and reaches down and kisses Bran on the mouth. I hope its not true, however Martin might have given us the clue right there that in the end Jon might sacrifice himself to get Bran out of that tree. Somehow if Jon figues out Bran is locked in some tree underground, I can see him going and dying trying to free his crippled brother.

I actually thought of something like that happening as well, especially with Catelyn saying 'It should have been you.' That line seemed very significant and not just written to show Catelyn's dislike for Jon and the hardships of being lowly compared to a true born.

I have a feeling Jon might never find out he's Lyanna and Rhaegar's son but perhaps Dany or someone will discover it only too late as Jon sacrifices himself for Bran as he believes its better a Bastard dying than his true born brother.

[~DarkHorse~]

Also, Val x Jon is not going to become anything serious! This will happen-

http://www.blastr.com/sites/blastr/files/styles/blog_post_media/public/1251-EW-COVER.jpg

It is known.

......I don't know why people hate me?

[Ghost's Shadow]

How does one even sacrifice himself for a brother who's growing in a tree and cannot even walk any more?

[Mikeygigs]

I'm not entirely sure...I don't remember the scene, but I do seem to remember something like Jon trying to protect Val/Dalla (taking one of the prisoner or something) while the battle rages beyond the Wall.

Maybe I'm just imagining that scene.

However, I do think there is that aspect to their relationship. Val is perfect for Jon, and I do think there is foreshadowing of a relationship between them. At least I hope so. His wife should be of the North since that is a major theme in Jon's story (being of the North, having strong Stark features, rejecting Stannis because he'd have to give up the Old Gods, Ghosts' Weirwood look, etc.).

[Toshio.Keepiru]

Also, Val x Jon is not going to become anything serious! This will happen-

http://www.blastr.co...51-EW-COVER.jpg

It is known.

......I don't know why people hate me?

Jon will pull an Atreides and marry Dany in name only. He'll take Val as his concubine and true love. Dany will have a public union only and no husbandly affections from Jon. the future histories of Westeros will know Val as Jon's true wife and bearer of his children. :cool4:

Not really, Jon will likely be dead before the end of the story, regardless of whether he survives his stabbings or not.

If he survives the stabbings then maybe he'll hookup with Val before his demise and in that way his line will continue.

[finger]

I'm not entirely sure...I don't remember the scene, but I do seem to remember something like Jon trying to protect Val/Dalla (taking one of the prisoner or something) while the battle rages beyond the Wall.

Maybe I'm just imagining that scene.

However, I do think there is that aspect to their relationship. Val is perfect for Jon, and I do think there is foreshadowing of a relationship between them. At least I hope so. His wife should be of the North since that is a major theme in Jon's story (being of the North, having strong Stark features, rejecting Stannis because he'd have to give up the Old Gods, Ghosts' Weirwood look, etc.).

Remember when they found the pups. Theon told Jon that the albino would die. Jon answered like he won't because he's mine.

It's a clue that Jon has chosen the deep North.

As a child he was taken form the Dorne. Since then, he took after his Northener mother. As a boy, he enrolled the NW, managed to raid further North, and he's more and more linked to the Wildlings.

When he was stabbed, the Wildlings had pledged to follow him, what makes him the effective King Beyond the Wall. All that to put Val in context.

It's very simple, Val is more than willing and Ghost approves, it's done.

Well, there's a somewhat serious hinder, Jons had been stabbed and seemed about to die.

If (big if) Jon manages to remain alive and kicking, there's no doubt he'll consummate, whatever it takes. Bugger the vows.

[Ghost's Shadow]

I might not remember the text extremely well, but Ghost stayed with Val for a bit when Jon called, right? Was that when she came back?

Perhaps he did that because in truth Jon wanted to be there instead of having to play the waiting LC, and so Jon kind of sent him there unconsciously, through their connection.

[finger]

I might not remember the text extremely well, but Ghost stayed with Val for a bit when Jon called, right? Was that when she came back?

Perhaps he did that because in truth Jon wanted to be there instead of having to play the waiting LC, and so Jon kind of sent him there unconsciously, through their connection.

Ghost is a direwolf!

He's connected with Jon's inner mind, and he can obey an order, but he can't feign.

Ghost just likes Val.

[~DarkHorse~]

How does one even sacrifice himself for a brother who's growing in a tree and cannot even walk any more?

I don't think it will happen but I could see some sacrifice in store.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Ghost is a direwolf!

He's connected with Jon's inner mind, and he can obey an order, but he can't feign.

Ghost just likes Val.

You don't think it can be compared to e.g. Grey Wind biting off the GreatJon's fingers? Or Ghost acting on Jon's frustration with Tyrion back when he just met him in Winterfell? A subconscious thing, not done on purpose, but a translation of what their human might want to see happening?

[EnergeticCrab]

I think Val is Jon's kind of woman but when she said Shireen should die, it made me think 2 things:

1. Ideological clash, this relationship will never work

2. If Shireen's greyscale does indeed cause some kind of plague, Val would be right and Jon my concede to her

Also Jon is kind of a major player in this series, Val is kind of not. I find that generally, pairings are of equal status/importance/specialness (this does not mean birth though, for instance Asha and Quarl fit this idea because Quarl is one of the best swordsman on Pyke).