Did Jon "steal" Val?

[bemused]

Val may not be much older than Jon at all. There are hints from the way her character is written that she's a member of a priestly class .She and Dalla could roughly correspond to Vala (English version of the name for a particular type of priestess/seer ) from the Norse religion. Perhaps Dalla really was her older sister , or perhaps she was her superior in a sisterhood of priestess/seers...So she speaks well because she's educated.

Vala could and did travel about freely and unmolested , were respected , were applied to by one tribe or another to forecast outcomes to their plans , etc... and sometimes a vala would ally herself to ,or marry a leader , lending her support and expertise to his cause. If GRRM adapts priests of the old gods from the Norse as well ,the chieftains are the priests for their people. ( If Dalla was a priestess, her marrying Mance would have helped his cause, since he wasn't raised in the wildling culture.)

From this perspective , I don't think that normal "stealing" would apply to this class of woman. But I think Jon's stealing has been subtle enough ( to a wildling) to show proper respect, while staking a claim ,even though he doesn't know he's done it. And by acting as intermediary between Jon and Tormund, Val has allied herself to Jon. At least on a temporary basis.

So I don't get a cougar vibe from her liason with Jarl , at all, he was a promising young leader and she may have been a young/ new priestess was forming an alliance with him.. ( I don't mean to say she didn't care for him and I don't see him as just a boy toy but even she may not have seen him as a life partner)

The clothes Dalla gave her have a ritual quality to them ,and might just be a lovely gift from one sister to another ( if somewhat extravagant) or might have marked her gaining full status as a priestess ( or whatever George is going to call them ).

Once again ,Jon Snow knows nothing.. :D Val tells him she can do more to help him , but he doesn't know enough to know what she's saying..

[Blackshield]

I read some theory about Val and Dalla being Umber- basterds (daughters to Croweye´s abducted daughter). That would explained why Val is so well-spoken and courteous. And the fact that Val is awful alike, Valkyra (who are the Norse priestess that helps fallen warriors to Valhalla (A Heaven-like place, their the Norse will fight forever)), I don’t believe it’s a coincident. Maybe Val will be the one to look after Lord Snow, then he is in Ghost, and then help “the fallen” warrior (Jon) back to health.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

His(Jon) is the story of Ice(Val) and Fire(Ygritte/Melisandre(after Ygritte dies))

I havnt read the other post yet, but would Val know how to talk to the ravens, like the south forgot. I do like the whole idea.

That would mean she is a warg, like Jon.

And as far as the gleading thing.. She said Jon was welcome into her bed, then said she would cut it off if he wanted help to keep his vow. Mabie a little tiffed that he is refusing her so she offers the alturnative.

it's not that he refuses her, it's the fact that he says "I took a vow" which is to mean, I'm a crow. She definitely is not going to submit to that part of him.Ygritte didn't either. She tried to kill Jon Crow.

- Selyse / Stannis, might've learned from the Karstarks that Robb had named Jon is heir as KING IN THE NORTH, obviously a nuissance considering the bulk of Stan's forces are northmen and wouldn't follow him anymore

The Karstarks left Robb before Robb made the document that made Jon his heir. They would not know about it.

- Mance Rayder, still considers himself King Beyond the Wall, might see Jon as a threat to said title as Jon is doing a good job and uniting Wildlings

Mance leaves for winterfell before Jon and Tormund make their agreement. He hasn't seen much of the work that Lord Snow has done.

Mance knows he lost his title of King Beyond the Wall the day that Stannis defeated him, he failed to bring the wildlings south of the wall with their pride. They got south but had to watch Mance burn, bend their knees and burn weirwood branches.

He seems pretty content to help Jon since Jon saved his life. Not going to believe that stupid ruby means he can't betray Melisandre, but I think it's pretty obvious he's determined to rescue 'Arya' and not just run off for some other plot.

~~~~~~~

Now finally my own thoughts about this "stealing" thing. It's deeper than what Jon Snow understands. He was only with the wildlings for a short time. It's a tradition thing. Ygritte accepts that Jon Snow stole her even though he didn't, he let her go without taking her. Val "steals" men herself instead of the other way around. How bad-ass is that? No wonder they're called her pets.

Now the key is Jon disobeys a commander crow by freeing Ygritte and letting her live to return to her people. Ygritte was unclaimed. She chose Jon, not the other way around at least not at first.

Now the other key is Jon disobeys a king by freeing Val and letting her be an envoy to her people. Val is unclaimed as well. She will not chose Jon Crow though, so in order for the Jon/Val thing to work, he'd have to change the way the Night's Watch is run or go north with the free folk once the war is over.

[Toshio.Keepiru]

I somehow don't see Jon Snow surviving til the very end of the series...

I did notice the suggestive hints about Val and Jon(Ghost) when I read the book.

I can see why people would ship them. If it did turn out that way I'd think that it's a way for Jon's line continue after he sacrifices himself in the fight against the others.

Although Val becoming Jon's Nissa Nissa could be the way this plot line ends up as well.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Hmm, you don't really know yet if another Nissa Nissa is needed, because she was used to complete the forging of the blade of Lightbringer. That sword might still be around (and in one piece).

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

Val is going to steal him from the Night Watch. It is known. He's going to be her bitch!

[IRON BANK]

I felt that it was somewhat obvious that Val and Jon were somehow going to be an item, wouldn't be interesting if she is involved in the third try to re awaken jon. tHAT COULD BE A HEART BREAKING EVENT.

[Ser Creighton]

Didn't Jon think about Val and say that Tormmund's son could have her? Yeah I am sure they share a mutual attraction but Jon seems a bit pre-occupied, they may hook up, or they may not. But I don't think he has a relationship till the end of the series. At least not a formal relationship. I think the wall is going to see see some rule changes, clearly what worked in the past, 8000 years ago is not working these days. Aemon once said the reason they take no wives is because they don't want to have to make a choice between duty and family or love. However if you take away what a person has to fight for then what reason does he have to fight or fulfill his duty? They defend the realm yet they are not part of it, they have lives but nothing worth living or dying for. They are not men, they are nothing more than tools.

[nothatso]

Didn't Jon think about Val and say that Tormmund's son could have her?

Tormund warned him that his son might steal her if Jon didn't, but I don't recall Jon making any explicit statement in the line of he "could have her"

[Dr. Pepper]

Didn't Jon think about Val and say that Tormmund's son could have her?

Tormund tells Jon to steal Val quick before Toregg takes her first. Jon thinks about how that bridge had been burned already and replies, “Toregg is welcome to her,” he announced. “I took a vow.”

[Ser Creighton]

Tormund tells Jon to steal Val quick before Toregg takes her first. Jon thinks about how that bridge had been burned already and replies, “Toregg is welcome to her,” he announced. “I took a vow.”

No after that, I seem to remember Toregg is it? Well one of the Tor family was with Val and the little monster and Jon thought to himself he could have her. I think it's in his final 3 chapters of Dance. I could be just remembering it wrong. I'll check and let you know if I find it.

[Dr. Pepper]

No after that, I seem to remember Toregg is it? Well one of the Tor family was with Val and the little monster and Jon thought to himself he could have her. I think it's in his final 3 chapters of Dance. I could be just remembering it wrong. I'll check and let you know if I find it.

Nope, not remembering wrong. I had thought to post this above but wasn't sure if this was what you were talking about. Jon didn't quite think to himself that Toregg could have her, but did acknowledge what Toregg was likely doing in Val's chambers and also that Toregg would make a better King-Beyond-the-Wall than Gerrick Kingsblood.

He has taken a liking to Val. Her sister was a queen, why not her? Tormund had once thought to make himself the King-Beyond-the-Wall, before Mance had bested him. Toregg the Tall might well be dreaming the same dream. Better him than Gerrick Kingsblood.

In any case, yes, Jon was no longer thinking of Val as his possible marriage partner.

[Ser Creighton]

Nope, not remembering wrong. I had thought to post this above but wasn't sure if this was what you were talking about. Jon didn't quite think to himself that Toregg could have her, but did acknowledge what Toregg was likely doing in Val's chambers and also that Toregg would make a better King-Beyond-the-Wall than Gerrick Kingsblood.

He has taken a liking to Val. Her sister was a queen, why not her? Tormund had once thought to make himself the King-Beyond-the-Wall, before Mance had bested him. Toregg the Tall might well be dreaming the same dream. Better him than Gerrick Kingsblood.

In any case, yes, Jon was no longer thinking of Val as his possible marriage partner.

Yeah that's it, nice work, chapter 69 right? Actually I would like to see marriage brought up around Jon.

Val or whoever in bed with Jon: Isn't this great my lord, beds are much more cozy with two up here in the north.

Jon: You bet, this is great.

Val or whoever: People are saying it's like we are married, isn't that sweet?

Jon: Wait what?

Val or whoever: You know married, hint hint.

Jon: Wo wo wo, lets pull the marriage bus over there. I mean you know this is great, just like it is, we don't want to ruin that.

Val or whoever: You saying I am not good enough to marry?

Jon: What no. Umm that's crazy, it's all crazy, see what marriage does to people. Lets not talk about it anymore it clearly upsets you.

Val or whoever: Yeah maybe your rig... wait did you just spin this? You did, you just f...... spun that on me.

Jon: Spinning, what who? Is this LA Fitness, this ain't no spinning class. I lub you baby.

Val or whoever: Lub? You can't even say love? You spun the whole marriage thing, now your bobin and weavin like Ali, I think you also may inferred I am crazy.

Jon: Are we back on marriage? I thought we talked about this makes you really upset, I am just concerned for your happiness.

Val or whoever: WHAT? That's it, put a ring on it.

Jon: Hey, who, what, ring? Oh wait no, oh you, your so cute, that was funny. Your f...... with me, oh hahahaha, that was so funny. You know I already took my Vows, I am married to the Watch. But this whole sex thing is still good, we can still do this, I don't mind. I mean yes I would so love to marry you babe, but Vows, I took Vows. You don't want a man who breaks his vows.

Val or whoever: I thought your Vows said no sex.

Jon: That is really more of a guideline open to interpretation. It's not wives and kids, doesn't say anything about sex.

[Toshio.Keepiru]

He has taken a liking to Val. Her sister was a queen, why not her? Tormund had once thought to make himself the King-Beyond-the-Wall, before Mance had bested him. Toregg the Tall might well be dreaming the same dream. Better him than Gerrick Kingsblood.

In any case, yes, Jon was no longer thinking of Val as his possible marriage partner.

Yeah, but has Val taken a liking to Toregg? that's the real question.

[Ser Creighton]

Yeah, but has Val taken a liking to Toregg? that's the real question.

Doesn't really matter does it? Jon is off the table for more than one reason for the forseeable future. Trying to stop the others, dealing with Bolton, Dealing with the Watch, rescuing wildlings, saving his sister (Poole), Bowen Marsh, The Queen, Stannis, and lying in a pool of his own blood. Jon's plate is just a little full right, will try and squeez Val down the road. Although if she wants to put on a nurses outfit and tend to Jon I am sure he won't complain about it.

[Toshio.Keepiru]

Jon could very well be dead. In which case the point would be moot.

However, the name of the thread is "Did Jon "steal" Val?"

It matters in as much as *if* Jon didn't get stabbed then *if* Val considered herself "stolen" then Toregg would have to overcome that.

We'll have to find out if Jon is dead or not in about 10 years.

[Fat King Robert]

Val is going to steal him from the Night Watch. It is known. He's going to be her bitch!

Har! Having him chained when walking in public!

I'm all for the Jon+Val theory. I believe Jon indeed stole Val when Stannis arrived at the wall. I think Val interpreted Jon's drawing his sword as "Hands off, this one is mine".

[bemused]

Well I hope it doesn't take 10 yrs... But it's not that Jon doesn't want Val , he thinks he can't have her , and being honourable , doesn't want to stand in the way. And I truly don't think he fully understands what's going on with Toregg.

I think Toregg understands ,as his father does , that Jon is the one Val has her sights set on , that she thinks Jon is the leader the free folk will follow and she would complement him as Dalla complemented Mance. In the meantime , he may be liaising between Val and Tormund. If Val is the priestess/ seer I think she is ,Toregg's supposed flirtation with one of the wet nurses (or with Val ) provides cover for information to pass between Val and Tormund ... without arousing undue suspicion on the part of say , Mel or Selyse.

[Ser Arthyr Dracenstein]

When the Wall falls, so does the Night Watch. No Wall, no need for the Night Watch, so if Jon and Val survives the war with the Others, I can see them marrying.

I think, if that happens, Jon may become the King of the Wall. When Lord Commander Mormont tells Jon that the Oath forbids marriage so that the Black Brothers only has the Wall, Jon thought that felt wrong, so if he becomes King of the Wall, there would still be something dedicated to protecting the south, probably with a following of surviving Night Watch, northerners, Wildlings and maybe the odd southerner with nowhere else to go (Tyrion?) and then he could marry/steal Val properly.

Tho I doubt that will happen.

[Gendels Children]

I hope so, because I'd love it to see Jon and Val together. I hate the idea of Val marrying anyone from south of the wall, except Jon. But whenever I think about this I get this sense of sadness. Like something that's gone or something with a big potential but will never happen. Maybe it's just me being dour and pessimistic but there's thing about time. I believe Jon is to lead the fight against the Others, so he has little time, and too little time if he is to become a king for relationships.

what you are feeling my good friend is the same thing as myself.. I feel before Jon can be any kind of king, he will die... sad but true, im quite sure. but he will die like a BOSS going out in a huge way to save people. I feel it in my bones...saad, saaad bones... :crying: