Generals Of Westeros

[Djinn]

As the rebellion started, there was battles with Targaryen loyalists in Goodbrooke/Darry and Gulltown. So those were victories for Jon Arryn and Hoster Tully.

The thing is, we get to see the meetings of Stannis, Tywin, Dany and Tyrion war councils. So we know who came up with what. Most of the other commander we simply don't know who came up with what, so the glory pretty much stops with the leader. Some seem to think that davos or jon advice take credit from Stannis. What were Blackfish, Edmure, Maegy, Roose advices? Or Jon, Hoster, Howland, Rodrik advices?

Shouldn't Paxter Redwyne be a great commander as well? He didn't lost a single battle so either.

As for gaining the peace thing, i've always got the impression that the Frey granted dominance of the Riverlands and the Bolton in the North was Tywin way of using them as patsy to spent any opposition in the area, a sort of divide to rule stratagem(Sansa+Tyrion child would be his longterm plan for the North, Lancel Darry for the Trident).

[Frey Pie]

Robb did pillage - There is mention of somebody driving huge amounts of cattle from the westerlands to riverlands also he took the Lannister gold mines (what other reason for taking gold mines if not to pillage). Also the quote from the blackfish about them living on lannister lands, seems like he was dealing back Tywin in his own coin.

Oh yes they took their booty but i cant imagine Robb Stark burning and raping the peasants as he goes. Perhaps its my bias towards the Starks. I can imagine Rickard Karstark getting some revenge by burning but Robb? I have no doubt he relieved many of them of their possessions but not quiet as Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch did in the Riverlands

[Nyrhex]

Hi guys, long time lurker, first time poster.

To tell the truth I like to think about the differences between what people think of generals in ASOIAF, and what we as readers think of them.

So let's get started.

North:

Eddard Stark: As has been stated before, won every battle he was in, and probably won the war for Robert. Also considered a great warrior. And if we are only dealing with command, tactical ans straitigic capability, and not how one plays the game of thrones, no cons I can think of ATM.

Robb Stark: Tactical genius. Though he loses points for picking wrong generals (Roose could have been switched with someone more trustworthy, and competent), and for failing to keep all his generals in the loop about his intentions (Edmure).

Jon Snow: Competent general, should have lost the battle for the wall, but did the best he could with what he did non the less. Loses points for acting without thinking too much, hes own men did kill him after all.

Roose Bolton: Pre-betrayal - Lost the green fork after he lost the element of surprise, yet decided to carry on despite having very little cavalry, against an enemy ~33% larger, when those were all cavalry. Lost a third of his army for no reason, as the mere presense of him there would have inslaved Tywin to keep his forces there. His only achievement was to buy Tywin's sellswords and take HH (IIRC with or without Arya he would have done it). Post-betrayal - bled his rival's forces, and is now holding Winterfell.

Ramsey Bolton: Three victories: 1. Betraying your countrymen and destroying a force three times your size, but one that is nearly all afoot when you are ahorse, and they are not expecting or are in a position to defend against you. Not a tactic that can work in any other battle. 2. The only other battle is the same, entering Winterfell as reinforcements, and again betray your ally and kill them when they are not expecting. 3. Moat Cailin - Breaking your word. Not only are all his battles not showing any military thinking, those are the only situations he is able to win so far.

Riverlands:

Edmure Tully: Sends a small foce to defend the border after he fails to see that Tywins intent was for Edmure to keep his forces scattered. After this defeat he gathers his host but fails to use scouts, and is easily defeated. His third battle shows improvement, when he joins Robb's forces and actually contribute to the success. By his fourth battle he defeats Tywin with a smaller force. Whether he failed to understand Robb's plan or Robb should have explained it to him is debatable. This is one of the only generals we can see that actually improve over time.

Westerlands:

Tywin Lannister: Underetimates Robb, fails to contact Frey and simply trust the man to do nothing. Wins the Green fork with larger numbers and thousends more horse then the enemy. Fails to see Robb's trap, and almost falls for it, but he is defeated by Edmure. Luckily for him, the Tyrells are still in the game and want to link up with him. Because Loras said so...

Links up with them and reaches KL just in time to save the day. Plans the RW after he sees a chance, now that Robb has troubles with his bannermen and is now faced with an Ironborn invasion. Overall, not a very good tactical commander, but a good strategist, and politician.

Jaime Lannister: Defeats a force 1/4 his size, and then another of his size, after both forces failed to use scouts. Not sure if this is more Jaime's ability or his foe's incompetence. He fails to use scouts and falls captive. His army near completely destroyed. When he comes bak to Riverrun he does a smart move, send Edmure in, bcause you have pull over him. Not against the Blackfish. After that he mostly talks down all resistence, mostly because they wanted someone else to surrender to. Used to be a fine swordsmen, but lost his hand. Overall not impressing as a battle commander. Perhaps his father should have gave him a smaller force at first, not an army.

Tyrion Lannister: Impressive fighting abilities for his size, especially considering he had to learn most on the go, unlike his brother. As a battle commander he had a good idea with the chain, but why not cut it after you see the enemy using it as a bridge? Failure to respond to changes in the battlefield would have meant defeat if not for his father's timely arrival. Let's not forget, just because Tyrion feels cheated from his glory does not mean he is right, the battle would still be lost if not for his father, chain or no chain. Though he gains points for being charismatic and keeping cool during battle.

Gregor Clegane: Fearsome fighter, won every battle he ever fought, even if some were set up for him. Never fought a battle he had less forces, or under any diffculty though (at the Green fork Roose did not try and break his formation, he turned back), so one could say he wasn't realy tested for extreme situations. On the other hand he was usually given the role of destroying the Riverlands, which he was good at.

Reach:

Randyll Tarly: Probably the most overhyped general in the books. His only battle during Robert's rebellion was inconclusive, resulting in no major losses to either side, nor with the death of Robert and ending Robert's rebellion. This is important, because that was Mace's goal. Robert wanted Ashford to defend the Stormlands, but obviously it wasn't importent enough, as he simply went north to link up with his allys. At best, this is Tarly's depriving the enemy a success. At worst, he singlehandedly lost the war, after his impatiance got the better of him and he attacked Robert's forces before the rest of the Reach's forces could be there. Instead of flanking Robert and detroying him there (if the balance of powers is the same then as it is now, Robert had ~20,000 at best, while Mace had ~50,000 at worst. A victory was almost a sure thing). He commanded the center at the Blackwater, but the battle was won simply by the fact the Tyrell/Lannister force was there, with Renly's "Ghost", not for some action of Tarly. His only other victory was Duskendale, where not only did he have knowledge of the attack, the force was sent there by it's commander to die. Still, with all the information he needed, and with Gregor's help, he destroyed the enemy only after sustaining heavy casualties. Overall, O.K commander. Overrated as a general, but still capable.

Mace Tyrell: After Tarly's failiure to destroy Robert's forces or killing him, Mace does the least expected thing: He shrugs. goes "meh", and keeps going east. Despite being the largest force in the loyalist forces, and despite the fact that now all the rebel forces are up north, faced only by the crownlands forces, and despite the fact that Robert is now in a perfect position to be attacked from the rear, Mace keeps going east. If my estimation is correct and he has ~50,000 men, he outnumbers Stannis 100-1. He could have sent a force of 5,000 men for the job. They would woutnumber Stannis 10-1 and Mace would still outnumber Robert's forces ~2-1. His actions during the books only show again that this man should never have the command over an army.

Garlen Tyrell: The only battle I recall him leading was the blackwater, as Renly's "Ghost". While he had overwhelming supiriority in numbers, the "Ghost" part was a nice touch. Exelent fighter as described in the books.

Loras Tyrell: A fine swordsmen, but fails as a commander. The only time he has the command he brings the death of a thousend men. Mostly his own. Considering Stannis' forces, I don't think Loras had to face more then a 100 men.

Stormlands:

Robert Baratheon: The only two battles we know he had the command are Summerhall and Ashford. A victory and a defeat. A renowned warrior, but we don't know if he was commanding during the other battles he fought. As has been stated, most of his success can be claimed by Nedd. Also, we don't know what happened between Ashford, which he left with his forces pretty much intact, and the battle of the bells, where he is injured and we don't know where is his army. Still, I'd put him as a good general.

Stannis Baratheon: Has survived a siege for a year, won a legendary naval engagement, subdued the largest Island of the Ironborn, was able to gather 5,000 men as a lord of one of the smallest holdings, by using every trick, weather it's loyalty to your lord, coin, or a new religion. Destroyed his greatest therats with magic. Would have taken KL if it wansn't for the Tyrell/Lannister alliance (which he couldn't predict), crashed Mance's foces and saved the wall. If it wan't for his failure to understand just what Mel is doing (he did not know he would be the reason for his brother's death), or for his decision to put an unqualified commander over his fleet out of political reasons, thus almost losing him the Blackwater from the start, I'd rank Stannis as a walking breathing god of war. He can still gain that rank if he wins the battle he is preparing now at the end of ADWD.

Renly Baratheon: Good strategy to wait for the war in the north to weaken your enemies, while joining forces with the largest army. But on the tactical level, attacking Stannis, even with a 4-1 ratio in forces, when he had time to prepare, and you want to attack with the sun in your eyes, does not sound like a smart plan.

The Crownlands, Vale, Dorne have yet to bring anyone with enough info about him to evaluate properly.

Thoughts, criticism, corrections are welcom.