Harder to invade - Dorne or The North?

[Winter's Ghost]

They both have amazing natural defenses, The North has the Neck and Dorne has the mountains and desert. Which do you think would be harder?

[Aquaman]

Probably the North. The only comparison that comes to mind is Napoleon. He invaded Egypt and although he won his battles and conquered Egypt, he lost large amounts of men to battle and disease and as soon as he left he lost it. That's very similar to Daeron I and the Conquest of Dorne.

He also invaded Russia and it ended in terrible defeat for many different reasons.

Dorne has been conquered, although at a high cost. The North has never been conquered and an invasion during winter (like in Russia) would end in defeat.

[redviper9]

I think it's a toss up. Dorne does have the mountains and the desert, like you noted, but they don't have as effective a barrier as the Neck and Moat Cailin. The Targaryens made numerous assaults on Dorne before they joined the Iron Throne, but I think it's been centuries since anyone successfully invaded the North by land.

Dorne also takes full advantage of guerrilla tactics; and though the Northern armies use more conventional tactics, the North is so vast that it's extremely difficult to occupy. Weather is also an advantage for both: outsiders don't fare so well under the Dornish sun or Northern snows.

[Cat of the Canal Girl]

Only shot at the north would be timing your invasion at the beginning of a long summer.

[Silent Sparrow]

I think it would actually be Dorne. In either the North or Dorne, any invading force would be hard-pressed to deal with feeding themselves in less fertile lands. In my mind, what makes Dorne more difficult to invade is that the terrain is so radically different from what we see in the rest of Westeros. The sands would prevent an effective mounted force, the army would end up roasting itself in the sun, and they would not be able to feed themselves. I'd rather take my chances with the Neck.

[Nyrhex]

A unified North, hands down. Dorne was taken by a naval power, the North was not. The Greyjoys never had a chance, even when most of the Northern army was destroyed in the south. The only two ways to take the North is either using local allies, like in the books, or using Dragons.

An army that attacks Dorne needs to have a large fleet to move it around, and keep moving by night instead of day. Not an impossible feat.

[Third World King]

Probably the North. The only comparison that comes to mind is Napoleon. He invaded Egypt and although he won his battles and conquered Egypt, he lost large amounts of men to battle and disease and as soon as he left he lost it. That's very similar to Daeron I and the Conquest of Dorne.

He also invaded Russia and it ended in terrible defeat for many different reasons.

Dorne has been conquered, although at a high cost. The North has never been conquered and an invasion during winter (like in Russia) would end in defeat.

Actually, the North was conquered without even putting up a fight by Aegon, while Dorne successfully resisted Aegon and his dragons. Torrhen Stark, the last king bent his knee to the Targaryens after witnessing the horrors at the field of fire. A wise move on his part....

To OP, Dorne is harder to invade. The North can be easily taken in summer.

[The Ghost of Winter]

Well the North is a much larger place, so I figure its a bit more difficult to get through. I mean obviously Winterfell is the heart of the North and that takes some time getting there. (Since its quite far up north). Mountains and deserts are difficult. But I think blizzards, freezing cold, and possibly scarce food is one nasty combination. I think of the North as a comparison to possibly Russia, which seems it would be extremely difficult to seize in the winter

[Tetrarch42]

Against a conventional army, the North. Moat Cailin makes any land incursion far too costly and even if you push in the cold wipes out any resitance in time. Against dragons, Dorne, because they can effectively use the mountains/caves to strike wherever the dragons aren't and win a prolonged war of attrition.

[Third World King]

A unified North, hands down. Dorne was taken by a naval power, the North was not. The Greyjoys never had a chance, even when most of the Northern army was destroyed in the south. The only two ways to take the North is either using local allies, like in the books, or using Dragons.

An army that attacks Dorne needs to have a large fleet to move it around, and keep moving by night instead of day. Not an impossible feat.

This is where you are wrong; the North can be taken by ships. With a large naval fleet, White Harbor and Deepwood Motte are there for the taking. From there, the enemy can simply move down and take Moat Cailin from the North allowing safe passage for the army coming from the South.

[danm_999]

Depends on how you're attacking. If you have ships, the North is quite easy to invade, like the Ironborn do. If you don't, well, in thousands of years of Westerosi history, Moat Cailin has never fallen from the South.

In Dorne, it seems a lot easier to invade, but very hard to hold. Though, we've not really had a Targaryen army attempt to occupy the North, maybe they'd have fared as poorly up there. You certainly wouldn't have as many guerrilla attacks in the North as you would in Dorne, but then, I can't really see Southron forces surviving a Northern winter all that well.

[Aquaman]

Actually, the North was conquered without even putting up a fight by Aegon, while Dorne successfully resisted Aegon and his dragons. Torrhen Stark, the last king bent his knee to the Targaryens after witnessing the horrors at the field of fire. A wise move on his part....

To OP, Dorne is harder to invade. The North can be easily taken in summer.

Definition of "conquer" - "Overcome and take control of (a place or people) by use of military force." Torrhen Stark bent the knee, the North was not militarily conquered.

This is where you are wrong; the North can be taken by ships. With a large naval fleet, White Harbor and Deepwood Motte are there for the taking. From there, the enemy can simply move down and take Moat Cailin from the North allowing safe passage for the army coming from the South.

Depends on how you're attacking. If you have ships, the North is quite easy to invade, like the Ironborn do. If you don't, well, in thousands of years of Westerosi history, Moat Cailin has never fallen from the South.

In Dorne, it seems a lot easier to invade, but very hard to hold. Though, we've not really had a Targaryen army attempt to occupy the North, maybe they'd have fared as poorly up there. You certainly wouldn't have as many guerrilla attacks in the North as you would in Dorne, but then, I can't really see Southron forces surviving a Northern winter all that well.

Virtually every region in Westeros can be conquered with the aid of naval warfare. Dorne was conquered with the aid of Admiral Alyn Velaryon ("Oakenfist") who sailed up the Greenblood and devasted Dorne.. However, unlike the North, the capital of Dorne is on the coast which is much easier militarily.

Throughout Westerosi history invading Dorne is not the problem. Fighting pitched battles and having stable supply lines are. In the case of the North, advancing past Moat Cailin is the problem.

[Third World King]

Definition of "conquer" - "Overcome and take control of (a place or people) by use of military force." Torrhen Stark bent the knee, the North was not militarily conquered.

Tell me again, why did Torrhen Stark bend the knee?

Virtually every region in Westeros can be conquered with the aid of naval warfare. Dorne was conquered with the aid of Admiral Alyn Velaryon ("Oakenfist") who sailed up the Greenblood and devasted Dorne.. However, unlike the North, the capital of Dorne is on the coast which is much easier militarily.

Throughout Westerosi history invading Dorne is not the problem. Fighting pitched battles and having stable supply lines are. In the case of the North, advancing past Moat Cailin is the problem.

Moat Cailin can easily be taken without much difficulty, if you know what you are doing. All you need is to land a large naval force at Deepwood Motte and proceed to take Moat Cailin from both sides. In winter, this is impossible, but in summer, it can be achieved without much difficulty.

[Myrish Swamp Thing]

The North if they can recruit General Winter, I think Dorne otherwise (IIRC, it has less suitable areas to establish beachheads).

[Barty]

Well the north is much, much bigger and has more men than Dorne, From what I read - conquering Dorne is extremely difficult but hardly on the same level as the North. It's holding Dorne is where the problem arises. the young dragon only lost 10,000 men in conquering Dorne and 10k is probably less than what you expect to lose when invading one of the seven kingdoms,It's holding onto Dorne once you've conquered it is where the problem arises(Daeron lost 40k men trying to hold it).

On the other hand the North has never been taken in over 8000 years of history. No hostile southern army has come within a thousand leagues of winterfell let alone come close to taking it. And until Brandon the burner burned his ships, the north also had a navy preventing anyone from landing troops.

Also Dornish summers are probably nothing compared to a northern winter(when comparing the effects on an invading army).

[Barty]

Tell me again, why did Torrhen Stark bend the knee?

Moat Cailin can easily be taken without much difficulty, if you know what you are doing. All you need is to land a large naval force at Deepwood Motte and proceed to take Moat Cailin from both sides. In winter, this is impossible, but in summer, it can be achieved without much difficulty.

Not so easy as that. Landing and taking Deepwood Motte is not easy - the Starks normally have had a navy protecting their shores and have one again thanks to Manderly. So go through the Stark navy - take a castle which is fully garrisoned(not like how Asha found it) and then march thousands of leagues through hostile, unknown terrain with limited supplies hoping you don't meet the Starks along with all their might and then take another fortress and hold it against the bogmen. And all this can only be done in summer.

We must remember that in a naval landing only a limited number of men can be sent - not more than 10-20k at most(I'm stretching things already). And so few men will never even reach Moat Cailin all the way from Deeopwood Motte much less take it- they have the Stark army to face.

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

The North. Moat Cailin in ruins is practically impenetrable, and combine that with the Crannongmen harassing you from the bogs as you creep north? I vote North.

[Barty]

Off topic: But I would like to see Danny invade the north - If things go the way I want then she will live just long enough to see her entire army die without it even managing to kill one northerner.

[Tattered Prince Pumpkinn]

North

[Team_Rob]

The North. If I had to choose which way to mrach my army...I'd rather deal with the heat.