Harder to invade - Dorne or The North?

[Third World King]

What castles does it have that are of the same standard? What fleet? You say the Nothern fleet is pitiful but the Dirnish have none.

Seriously, you do not think a region with their capital on the coast do not have a naval fleet, do you?

Robb got together about 18000 pretty quickly. Scratching everyone together i would but there number conservatively at 45-50000. Dorne is the least populated kingdom. Quentyn says 50000, Doran tells the truth and says around 15000. Id say 25000

When did Doran say that Dorne has about 15 000 spear?

Anyway, attacking Dorne would be suicide for a large army, since Dorne is a desert with little water supply. The invading armies would die out of heat and thirst before even accomplishing anything. To attack Dorne would be suicide.

[Third World King]

And the only way the King in the North bent his knee was dragons. The only reason the North is in such a poor situation is because the northern army was south of the neck, whit an Ironborn invasion and disloyal lords destroying said army at the RW.

Dorne, on the other hand, did not even bend their knees to the dragons. They told Aegon and his dragons to get lost...

The question in the OP was who is thougher. Daerion I took Dorne in 157AL, losing 10,000 men in battle. Through land. This is the second time Dorne was taken. You yourself said that, without dragons, the north can be taken with two large fleets, and another main army to march from the south. Yes, the North sounds like it is thougher to take.

Consider the size, it's weather, the number of troops the North has and the number of troops you will need to keep it, the logistics of it all, and Dorne sounds easier to take. Considering Dorne was already taken twice, while the North is yet to be taken in it's entirety, I don't see how you can say that the North is easier compared with Dorne.

Did Daeron and the Iron Throne army successful conquer Dorne? The answer would be NO, Dorne has never been successfully taken, EVER.

1. Daeron had to make a peace pact by offering the Martells a Targaryen woman.

2. Nymeria had to offer herself to the Martells.

The North, on the other hand, simply bent their knees as soon as Aegon came.

[lostcause]

North would be harder to take, even in Summer it's colder than anywhere else.

In warfare, severe cold is worse than severe heat. Further more, Logistics is the key to winning, every time, all the time.

Logistics in the North are much more complex and vulnerable to attacks than in Dorne.

Lastly, the North is so much larger.

The climate and land is like a combination of Russia and Afghanistan, 2 areas that are about the hardest to conquer in our world.

[Free Northman]

Dorne, on the other hand, did not even bend their knees to the dragons. They told Aegon and his dragons to get lost...

Did Daeron and the Iron Throne army successful conquer Dorne? The answer would be NO, Dorne has never been successfully taken, EVER.

1. Daeron had to make a peace pact by offering the Martells a Targaryen woman.

2. Nymeria had to offer herself to the Martells.

The North, on the other hand, simply bent their knees as soon as Aegon came.

Yet Dorne was conquered by the Andals without any trouble, while the North repelled all Andal invasions for 6,000 years.

So without Dragons, it would appear that the North is far more difficult to conquer.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I would have to say the North. 300 years and they are still more close to the First (their own people) Men (society, religion and loyalty) than to the rest of the Realm.

[Third World King]

North would be harder to take, even in Summer it's colder than anywhere else.

In warfare, severe cold is worse than severe heat. Further more, Logistics is the key to winning, every time, all the time.

Logistics in the North are much more complex and vulnerable to attacks than in Dorne.

Lastly, the North is so much larger.

The climate and land is like a combination of Russia and Afghanistan, 2 areas that are about the hardest to conquer in our world.

In summer, the North is not cold- only the North of the wall is cold throughout.

[Nyrhex]

Dorne, on the other hand, did not even bend their knees to the dragons. They told Aegon and his dragons to get lost...

No, they simply wouldn't give him battle, and while he was running around with his dragons in the desert, they were in hiding. That's not to say thier forces could stop an invasion, only that the occupation is hell. And that Aegon was stupid, and lazy. There are other ways to subdue a nation without fighting thier army, but that's going off topic. Right now it doesn't look like the North is so easy either.

Did Daeron and the Iron Throne army successful conquer Dorne? The answer would be NO, Dorne has never been successfully taken, EVER.

Conquered in battle? Yes. A rebellion a year later is another thing. And Like I said, the North isn't showing to be a cake walk either.

[lostcause]

1. The Stark have a navy consisting of merely 50 warships which can easily be taken out.

2. Taking Deepwood Motte, even fully garrisoned is not that difficult to be honest. It's a small castle, an experienced commander could easily take it through siege weapons, without losing too many men in the process.

3. After taking Deepwood Motte, it can be used as a base of operations. From here, it will depend on who has a better army, the North or the enemy.

Rules out the remaining Lannisters and Targs, unless we're thinking Tyrion will invade the North.

3. They would have to run supplies and reinforcements through the Wolfswood...yeah that's going to be a short campaign then.

[Third World King]

Yet Dorne was conquered by the Andals without any trouble, while the North repelled all Andal invasions for 6,000 years.

So without Dragons, it would appear that the North is far more difficult to conquer.

Care to provide a link to the bold part?

As far as I'm aware, the Andals conquered the First men who lived in Dorne during the time.

[Third World King]

No, they simply wouldn't give him battle, and while he was running around with his dragons in the desert, they were in hiding. That's not to say thier forces could stop an invasion, only that the occupation is hell. And that Aegon was stupid, and lazy. There are other ways to subdue a nation without fighting thier army, but that's going off topic. Right now it doesn't look like the North is so easy either.

lol if Aegon the Conqueror was stupid and lazy, what does it say about the North?

Conquered in battle? Yes. A rebellion a year later is another thing. And Like I said, the North isn't showing to be a cake walk either.

The North was conquered through military force by Aegon, whilst Dorne only through a marriage pact. Dorne is much harder to conquer. FACT.

[Frey Pie]

Seriously, you do not think a region with their capital on the coast do not have a naval fleet, do you?

When did Doran say that Dorne has about 15 000 spear?

Anyway, attacking Dorne would be suicide for a large army, since Dorne is a desert with little water supply. The invading armies would die out of heat and thirst before even accomplishing anything. To attack Dorne would be suicide.

The Dornish havent been noted as having any fleet. There is no textual evidence that they have any. It seems more of a trading town. I dont have the quote but i think thats what he said. In any case 30000 is the outer limits of what they could have.

No it wouldnt be. There are rivers in Dorne, supplies can be laid out and resupply is easier.

The North was conquered through military force by Aegon, whilst Dorne only through a marriage pact. Dorne is much harder to conquer. FACT.

Dorne was conquered, dont see how your not getting this. They rebelled successfully and then kissed and made up. The North kneeled after repelling attack after attack by the Andals. The North is harder to conquer due to its size, population, leadership, castles, forest, mountains and climate. FACT

[Zaydan]

The North.

Just open your map and take a good look again.

With dragons, no dragon, with naval forces, no naval force, with five thousand men, with fifty thousand men, the North is harder to take.

[Nyrhex]

lol if Aegon the Conqueror was stupid and lazy, what does it say about the North?

Nothing at all. It means that the king in the north showed up to battle with his army, saw the dragons, and decided that it's not worth the death of all his men. When Aegon went for Dorne he did not face an army, after they had heard of his other victories, including the field of fire, and decided not to give him battle. He could have used his dragons to destroy the Dornish citied and castles, but GRRM wanted Dorne to be taken by marriage, not by force, so he ignored the obviouse military choise Aegon should have made. It's not like Aegon, it's not like his way of action, it's not consistant with the fact he had burnt HH to the ground. But it fits the plot.

And Dorne was taken twice already, and was incorporated into the 7 kingdoms, also a fact. The question is which is harder.

[Third World King]

The Dornish havent been noted as having any fleet. There is no textual evidence that they have any. It seems more of a trading town. I dont have the quote but i think thats what he said. In any case 30000 is the outer limits of what they could have.

No it wouldnt be. There are rivers in Dorne, supplies can be laid out and resupply is easier.

You don't have the quote but you think that's what Doran said? Dude, just admit it, you were simply pulling numbers out of thin air to back up your arguments. The only reason you cannot find that quote, is because Doran Martell never said anything like that.

Dorne was conquered, dont see how your not getting this. They rebelled successfully and then kissed and made up. The North kneeled after repelling attack after attack by the Andals. The North is harder to conquer due to its size, population, leadership, castles, forest, mountains and climate. FACT

Who successfully conquered Dorne? Name 1 person that has successfully conquered and held onto Dorne, like Aegon did to the North? Just a single name will do...

[Third World King]

The North.

Just open your map and take a good look again.

With dragons, no dragon, with naval forces, no naval force, with five thousand men, with fifty thousand men, the North is harder to take.

Open your ASOIAF books and you will see that Dorne cannot be successfully taken and held. You would have an easier chance holding onto the North than Dorne.

[Third World King]

Nothing at all. It means that the king in the north showed up to battle with his army, saw the dragons, and decided that it's not worth the death of all his men. When Aegon went for Dorne he did not face an army, after they had heard of his other victories, including the field of fire, and decided not to give him battle. He could have used his dragons to destroy the Dornish citied and castles, but GRRM wanted Dorne to be taken by marriage, not by force, so he ignored the obviouse military choise Aegon should have made. It's not like Aegon, it's not like his way of action, it's not consistant with the fact he had burnt HH to the ground. But it fits the plot.

And Dorne was taken twice already, and was incorporated into the 7 kingdoms, also a fact. The question is which is harder.

No comment.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Torrhen knelt because he led his army south and realised to late that if he did not submit immediately, his army would annihilated. Dorne has been conquered twice before, the North never has.

[The Last Direwolf]

Probably the North, but Dorne would be difficult too.

Dorne pros:

- difficult terrain for non-natives

- notoriously tough Dornishmen blocking every pass.

The North pros:

- Larger, therefore harder to hold.

- Difficult terrain.

- Stronger rulers

- Larger army

- Better fleet

- More difficult to launch an assault (the Neck is virtually impassable)

- Never been conquered fully.

Dorne cons

- Smaller and therefore easier to hold.

- Been conquered once before.

The North cons:

- Bannermen such as the Boltons are infamously treacherous.

- If the enemy has a stronger fleet, take White Harbour and land all their troops there, the North is virtually conquered already.

- Some conditions in the North (winter, for instance) make it harder for the bannermen to band together and form a single army.

[Free Northman]

Care to provide a link to the bold part?

As far as I'm aware, the Andals conquered the First men who lived in Dorne during the time.

Not sure what point you're trying to make with that reply. That's exactly what I said, so I don't see what you're disputing.

[Frey Pie]

You don't have the quote but you think that's what Doran said? Dude, just admit it, you were simply pulling numbers out of thin air to back up your arguments. The only reason you cannot find that quote, is because Doran Martell never said anything like that.

Who successfully conquered Dorne? Name 1 person that has successfully conquered and held onto Dorne, like Aegon did to the North? Just a single name will do...

Here iv been on these forums for a long time so dont be throwing comments like that at me when your constantly ignoring what people say. Check out this thread for numbers http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/71761-the-military-power-of-each-of-the-kingdoms-past-and-future/page__hl__%20strongest%20%20region__st__20. If i wanted to make up numbers then why would i have said Doran said 15000 and then go onto say i think their strength is closer to 30000? I thought i remembered a quote but im not going to go look for it for you-i may have been mistaken. Dorne is the least populace of the seven kingdoms, hence the smallest army.

The Andals, Nymeria and Mors Martell, the Young Dragon