The Hound vs. Sandor Clegane

[Mad Madam Mim]

Monsieur Clegane was one of my favourite charactors in the book due to complex and challenging nature of his charactor who evidently had a number of demons floating around that noggin of his.

So assuming A) Sandor is still alive (i hope so!) and B) has not been retired by GRRM to spend the rest of his days off page in the monkish equivlent of rehab, would a redeemed Sandor be a dull shadow of his former self (ie. Preacher Lancel the sequel) or would removing the shackles of 'The Hound' make our fine fido friend even more arse-kickingly awsome now that he is no longer held back his demons?

Does The Hound maketh the man or the man maketh The Hound?

[Jolene Brown]

I think there is an interesting parallel potentially between the Hound on the Quiet Isle and Arya with the Faceless Men. Arya is playing their game but she didn't gave away Needle - it is still waiting for her wherever she hid it for when she decides to be Arya Stark again. Similarly, I think that section in Brienne's POV about the Hound's horse Stranger and how it bit off that guy's ear who tried to geld it was not just there to add some color and give us another hint that the Hound was alive. Stranger wouldn't let himself be tamed and I hope the Hound won't either, in the long run. I do hope he finds some inner peace but that doesn't mean he can't kick some ass in a good cause. Just because you get rid of your demons (or some of them) it doesn't mean you have to be boring.

I don't think Lancel is dull, by the way - he is one screwed up kid, more interesting than he was when he was just Cercei's plaything. Can you see him standing up to Jaime the way he did on Jaime's visit to Darry before his conversion? Or even to Kevan? His story isn't over yet - it's a story about a person in torment. Now that I think about it, in some ways it's sort of a reverse parallel to the Hound's! I do think the Hound is sincerely benefiting from his time on the QI, even though I don't think he will stay there, but faith is clearly not bringing Lancel any peace at all!

[Cat of the Canal Girl]

Part of this is based on the extent to which Gregor still "exists". If Sandor learns that Gregor is "dead" it will change his self-identity. Maybe he has already heard some news about Gregor and has undergone a change.

The Lannisters won't let him inherit the Clegane estate anymore. He doesn't have a master to be loyal to right now. That probably upsets his perception of himself as well. If he were to run into someone he could serve, we may be able to see The Hound again. But who would make sense? It can't be anyone friendly with the Lannisters. Littlefinger would probably have a way to make use of him. He could join the Burned Men!

[Cat of the Commons]

I like to think the Hound will come out of retirement seeking vengence if Ser Robert Strong turns out to be who we all think he is.

[Frey Pie]

It depends what he is fighting for. The Hound fought because he loved fighting and death. Will he be stronger if hes fighting for something he truly believes in, something true and righteous? Perhaps

Then again isnt his hip pretty bust up?

[Queen of Winter]

The Hound wanted to kill his brother, that was one of the things that fueled him, along with his rage in general.

Sandor is going to have to find another reason to exist, other than killing his brother. He's going to need to find something or someone worth fighting for.

If he learns to temper his rage, I think he's going to do it.

[Guerillacropolis]

Isn't it likely that Sandor has been "re-animated" too? He was left to die by Arya and found by Beric Dondarrion and/or his men (right? Perhaps I am speculating this part too). I thought the implication was that Dondarrion found the Hound recently dead and revived him, perhaps as a punishment-death was too good for the man.

If he is still alive, perhaps he'll make a surprise appearance as part of the Stone Lady's entourage.

In terms of "the Hound", now that Sandor's lost his helmet, that goes to whoever has the hound helm. The last to have it was Lem "lemoncloak", so he's the current Hound. So in this case, the helm makes the man.

[LordReaper]

Sandor is a tragic character, one of the more complex and intersting in the series. I really do hope that his time isn't over.

[Elder Sister]

I doubt we'll see Sandor Clegane again. I think the fierceness and brutality of his nature died with The Hound.

He's one of my favorite characters, but I like the thought of him living out his days on the Quiet Isle, able to be at peace with himself. He deserves some happiness.

[Cat of the Commons]

Isn't it likely that Sandor has been "re-animated" too? He was left to die by Arya and found by Beric Dondarrion and/or his men (right? Perhaps I am speculating this part too). I thought the implication was that Dondarrion found the Hound recently dead and revived him, perhaps as a punishment-death was too good for the man.

Dondarion died when un-Cat was created. A lot of people follow the theory that Ser Robert Strong is un-Gregor because of some black magic Qyburn did in the dungeons with him.

Edit: I just realized what you were saying. My repsonse isn't valid.

[deleted01]

I doubt we'll see Sandor Clegane again. I think the fierceness and brutality of his nature died with The Hound.

He's one of my favorite characters, but I like the thought of him living out his days on the Quiet Isle, able to be at peace with himself. He deserves some happiness.

I like this, because he's one of my favourite characters too, and I hope he finds peace. However, I don't think we've seen the last of him. I really enjoyed the relationships he had with Arya and Sansa (and no, I do not mean romantic ones), and I think he could maybe, someday, find peace with them. He saved Sansa somewhat from Joffrey, and he saved Arya from getting killed at the RW. They owe him one, I'm thinking. Mayhaps he'll join one of their Queensguard someday :D

[Kittykatknits]

I don't think Sandor is going to turn in to a shadow of his former self at all but I do believe he will emerge a changed person. Back in Clash, we are given a big clue on the different aspects of the Hound/Sandor dichotomy. Prior to the BBW, Sansa prays for Sandor's rage to be gentled yet later that same night she also admires his ferocity. From what I can tell from many reader posts, it is his ferocity that we admire - not his rage. We later learn from the EB that The Hound, the persona which had Sandor's rage has died. That tells me that his ferocity is indeed still with him. There are multiple clues that tell us this is the case. First, if we look to Stranger as a reflection of Sandor, he refused the attempt to be gelded to the point that the brothers will no longer make the attempt. It is important that this happened immediately after Sandor arrived on the island, so it serves as a big hint of what happened to Sandor. Plus, we also saw him shoveling dirt at Brienne's feet yet accept the correction from another brother. Again, this is a hint that his ferocity remains but the rage is gone.

I agree with previous posters that Sandor will need to find another purpose and I sincerely hope that purpose is not to kill Robert Strong in an act of revenge. Again, we can look to his actions in Storm to see just how much Sandor needs a purpose or something to work towards. At one point, Sandor makes the statement that he is his own master now, he has thrown off the title of Lannister dog. Yet look what he actually spends the book doing...wandering in the Riverlands with no purpose and no place to go. He has no master (or mistress!) to serve, he reminds me of a lost dog who doesn't have any place to go. It is not chance that we also see him sinking in to a suicidal depression during this time too. Sandor may be his own dog but it is apparent that this does not negate the idea that he still needs a purpose and something to serve. I think this tells us that he needs something that is worthy of his service, the Lannisters were not as they helped perpetuate the Hound persona.

I think there is a good chance that Sandor's time with Arya is done. He taught her what he needed to and got her to Saltpans. I do not think that his time with Sansa is finished and I think she is the one that will give him that larger purpose, whatever it may be.

[Batman]

This has been something I have been thinking about for ages and we wont know for sure until we see him again. Jaime mentions that the Hound fights with a fury that Strongboar could never hope to match, I assume this comes from his level of hate. Almost everybody in the Seven Kingdoms was afraid of the Hound and all of them should be. The Mountains own men were afraid of him. Consider that, some of the most badass men in the world and they want nothing to do with the Hound. Polliver summed it up best, "We're bad, ser, but you would have to be mad to mess with the Hound".

He will still have his sword skills, he will still have his size, strength and speed (assuming he fully recovers) and he will still have all of his battle experience. The question is the manner in which he fights. Will he have lost that savage edge? Will that make him worse? Perhaps this will make him a more cerebral fighter.

Sandor Clegane may have buried the Hound in his daily life but it is possible that when he fights that side of him will come to the surface.

[Little Wing]

The Hound was fueled by rage and the need to kill his brother.

Sandor was Sansa's guardian.

I'm hoping for a mix of the two, a Sandor channeling his strength and power to protect Sansa/the smallfolk/whomever needs protecting, but also eventually giving Gregor the chop. If he's the grave-digger, I think this balance in him is a bit foreshadowed in the way he gave Dog a scratch behind his ears. I see it as his gentler side coming out and accepting himself for what he is, scarred yes, but moving on, with someone/something to live for or die for-a cause, Sansa...who knows.

[Gandalf the Grey]

The Hound is dead. GRRM has wrapped up his story quite nicely, he has concluded his part in the story where Sandor's fate is open to debate, although we can be reasonably certain that he is still alive. It's also likely that his injuries have caused permanent damage, leaving him, perhaps still an alright fighter, but almost definitely not in the top league. Part of his Quiet Isle deal is probably renouncing hatred of his brother, and trying to become a new man. I think a Sandor v Robert Strong duel is unlikely, not just for these reasons, but it is a bit too much of a fairytale resolution for GRRM. It's not his style. The Hound is dead.

[Mad Madam Mim]

Agreed that Sandor needs a purpose but i don't think it's to kill his brother.

"Where other men dream of love, or wealth or glory, this man Sandor Clegane dreamed of slaying his own brother, a sin so terrible it makes me shudder just to speak of it. Yet it was the bread that nourished him, the fuel that kept his fires burning. Ignoble as it was, the hope of seeing his brother's blood upon his blade was all this sad and angry creature lived for...and even that was taken from him when Prince Oberyn of Dorne stabbed Ser Gregor with a poisoned spear".

As much as I would love a Sandor/FrankenGregor show down to the death, I believe the Hound was created when Gregor burned Sandor's face in the fire, which of course is where Sandor's hatred for his brother stems from. Therefore if Sandor truely shakes of the hound then by this line of thinking it would suggest he has to let go of urge to kill his brother (tricky i know). Also if he has a gammy leg i don't think he stands much of a chance.

However, I would love a better stronger Sandor to make an appearence...and casually bump into Sansa :cool4:

[msheafer33]

Sandor is alive. His destiny? Defender of the weak, "true knight" and dragon-slayer. The man who is terrified of fire is destined to face a dragon.

The elder brother says "the Hound" part of Sandor, the part that was motivated by hatred for Gregor, is dead. I see no reason not to take his word for it. "Revenge" against Gregor is pointless anyway. Gregor is already experiencing a fate worse than death. If Sandor takes on Gregor it should be for other motives - like the defense of others.

Still "The Hound" seems to live on, as though it has a life (or unlife) of its own, apart from Sandor. The Cursed Helm of Terror has already known 2 new owners, since Sandor parted ways with it.

Remember, that Bran, in his dream, sees a Shadow Giant (apparently UnGregor) looming over a Shadow Hound. I believe "Shadow" refers to a certain type of Undead, like UnCat (as in "A grimmer shadow leads us now"). I expect the Cursed Helm of Terror will end up with an undead owner.

I predict we will see "The Hound" again. A savage, murderous, tall, broad-shouldered person wearing the Hound helm. We will see glimpses of a scarred face and grey eyes. GRRM, wicked person that he is, will keep us guessing. Is this person is alive or undead? Is it Sandor or someone else? Lem? UnLem? UnRorge?

It will actually be ________________.

[Duir]

I don't think Sandor is going to turn in to a shadow of his former self at all but I do believe he will emerge a changed person. Back in Clash, we are given a big clue on the different aspects of the Hound/Sandor dichotomy. Prior to the BBW, Sansa prays for Sandor's rage to be gentled yet later that same night she also admires his ferocity. From what I can tell from many reader posts, it is his ferocity that we admire - not his rage. We later learn from the EB that The Hound, the persona which had Sandor's rage has died. That tells me that his ferocity is indeed still with him. There are multiple clues that tell us this is the case. First, if we look to Stranger as a reflection of Sandor, he refused the attempt to be gelded to the point that the brothers will no longer make the attempt. It is important that this happened immediately after Sandor arrived on the island, so it serves as a big hint of what happened to Sandor. Plus, we also saw him shoveling dirt at Brienne's feet yet accept the correction from another brother. Again, this is a hint that his ferocity remains but the rage is gone.

I agree with previous posters that Sandor will need to find another purpose and I sincerely hope that purpose is not to kill Robert Strong in an act of revenge. Again, we can look to his actions in Storm to see just how much Sandor needs a purpose or something to work towards. At one point, Sandor makes the statement that he is his own master now, he has thrown off the title of Lannister dog. Yet look what he actually spends the book doing...wandering in the Riverlands with no purpose and no place to go. He has no master (or mistress!) to serve, he reminds me of a lost dog who doesn't have any place to go. It is not chance that we also see him sinking in to a suicidal depression during this time too. Sandor may be his own dog but it is apparent that this does not negate the idea that he still needs a purpose and something to serve. I think this tells us that he needs something that is worthy of his service, the Lannisters were not as they helped perpetuate the Hound persona.

I think there is a good chance that Sandor's time with Arya is done. He taught her what he needed to and got her to Saltpans. I do not think that his time with Sansa is finished and I think she is the one that will give him that larger purpose, whatever it may be.

This.

[JaegrM]

Honestly,

I think it quite likely that Sandor's story is done.

Martin has written him to be at peace.

We've already learned that while his rage drove him he was a decent guy underneath that rage. Now he's conquered/conquering his demons and is living a life where he has no turmoil.

He has no reason to leave the Quit Isle, and I suspect we will never know 100% that the gravedigger is even Sandor.

Martin wrote the Gravedigger into the story simply for the sake of message boards and die hard fans of The Hound, so that if they so choose their favorite dog is still alive and well.

[msheafer33]

He has no reason to leave the Quit Isle [...]

He'll have one. How about: Dragons ravaging the countryside and devouring hapless peasants.