hint for stark vengance at end of adwd?

[aryagonnakill]

Oh sorry mate, still kind of replied though as I went into why Ned didn't take the throne (in my opinion it must be said). I kind of agree with you though that Robert wanted it more, but to be fair the way I read the books, Robert never wanted the throne eiither, as such, he just wanted to kill the Targs and then later make the Lannisters feel some humility (he failed extraordinarily at both, losing his life and throne to the Lannisters and the youngest Targ is now a woman grown with bloodlust and 3 dragons :P ). You can argue that he did want the perks of being semi infallible and being allowed to do as he pleased but really if any of the other leaders of the rebellion had gained the throne he would have been the third or fourth most powerful lord anyway so doing that would not be an issue.

I think your right about Rob not wanting to be king, at least he didn't go to war for that reason but it may have looked attractive once he had. I was just playing off of Cersei and Ned's convo all the way back in AGOT where she says he screwed up not taking the thrown when he made Jaime get off of it. I believe thats the first time we hear the phrase in the GOT you win or die. I'm remembering this more from the show but I'm pretty sure it went down almost exactly the same in the book.

[SerSeymoreThyme]

Given the changes in the TV show, I suspect Jeyne will be found out to be an unimportant side character.

I agree, however I feel that the fact that she is named Maegyr and comes from Volantys allows for a similar connection as Jeyne Westerling to her great grandmother Maggy the frog. Maggy is supposedly Volantene and her name is believed to be a bastardization of maegi. Maybe its really Maegyr and she is related to the Maegyr traich of Volantys from aDwD. That or the only thing inmportant about her is the baby she's carrying, though I doubt it.

[psicomenace]

Well, that short guy is kind of a thinker, too, but I get your point. ;)

Besides, that short guy may probably siding with the Targaryens or even perhaps Jon Snow :bowdown: .

[<3 JonSnow]

Robb DID leave an heir... He signed a pIarchment stating that his brother Jon is his heir to the North, in front of his dukes, before the red wedding took place. Part of his troops went with a ship to the Crannogman, so people know who his heir was... I do like the idea he had a son we do not know of though, but how would his identity be proven?

Why had this not come up again? Not that Jon would necessarily want that title, but no one had even told him Robb's wishes... That always kind of bothered me.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Why had this not come up again? Not that Jon would necessarily want that title, but no one had even told him Robb's wishes... That always kind of bothered me.

1. While "Jon is the heir" is the most probable thing that could be in that will, it isn't a 100% proven fact. We don't really know what was in the letter.

2. It is traveling to him. Last we heard, that letter was in possession of Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover and they had orders to find Howland Reed before continuing north. And Greywater Watch isn't an easy place to find - especially under the circumstances.

[<3 JonSnow]

1. While "Jon is the heir" is the most probable thing that could be in that will, it isn't a 100% proven fact. We don't really know what was in the letter.

2. It is traveling to him. Last we heard, that letter was in possession of Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover and they had orders to find Howland Reed before continuing north. And Greywater Watch isn't an easy place to find - especially under the circumstances.

Aww ok, I forgot they were supposed to find Howland Reed first. I kept thinking, why hasn't Jon gotten that damn letter? Thank you for the reminder! :)

[ryannik09]

It is never confirmed that Jon was infact named heir, i beleive it is so GRRM can surprise us with who it is, and the black fish and Jeyne westerling would be plenty of proof.

And i am not saying the child will ever lead during the books, but i can see the child being a ralying call for the north.

Its confirmed in the ASOIAF app that was created that Robb did in fact name Jon Snow his heir.

[The Bastard of Walton]

Rickon & Sansa will get vengence for the Starks.

1. While "Jon is the heir" is the most probable thing that could be in that will, it isn't a 100% proven fact. We don't really know what was in the letter.

2. It is traveling to him. Last we heard, that letter was in possession of Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover and they had orders to find Howland Reed before continuing north. And Greywater Watch isn't an easy place to find - especially under the circumstances.

I forget some of things that happen, will have to start reading them again. Could be Jon is heir, must be something important & Howland is the only person in the north who knows about Jon's parents, I think. Could be a really good story ark in WOW this, maybe it was about a pregnant Jeyne. Could be where the Blackfish is going. Cant wait for this book!

[Snark_Tamer]

Comments on a couple things:

There are two 'seer' predictions about Starks I think are worth mentioning in this rise of the wolves. The first, in Clash of Kings, is from Jojen Reed&hellip; and seeing Bran on a flying wolf. Now visions aren't exact (the sea didn't really rise over the walls of Winterfell after all, rather the Greyjoys invaded, coming over the wall). But I don't think this is as simple as Bran being able to warg wolf and crow. I don't know if this is the 'Ice dragons' some theorize, or some other thing, but I think it gives us a hint at Bran's role.

The second prediction is in relation to Sansa. Arya listens to the dwarf crone at the top of Heart Hill in Storm of Swords: (paraphrasing here) "I see a maiden at a big feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs" (clearly Sansa at Joffrey's wedding, with her hairnet of poisoned opals). "I see the same maiden later destroy the beast in a castle of snow."

Now we've seen Sansa build a castle of snow, but I don't think this is the one meant. I think Littlefinger gets Sansa back to Winterfell with full intention that, THROUGH Sansa, he can take over the north&hellip; but Sansa is onto him and destroys this beast (Little Finger) that has set so much of this in motion.

And then the comment on Robb's bride and TV: the show producers are in conference with GRRM. And the SHOW: there is NO REASON to make changes except to streamline (cut subplots/characters or make explanations easier (like Roz tying in several subplots related to whores with a single recognizable character). I think Talisa must be a similar case. She is from the Free Cities instead of Jayne being from a lesser house under Lannister. I think the only reason for that is she could both serve the 'blowing the Frey alliance' AND pull in some other subplot to do with the east. We just haven't seen it yet. (Alasdair gave a version of this that's plausible--that what is important about the wife is her Spicer connection, but NOT her Westerling one)

That doesn't necessarily mean she isn't pregnant. And Im willing to buy a Jeyne switch and duplicity from Jeyne's mother in 'fooling' the Lannisters to keep her daughter safe (acting like she'd been with them the whole time and had been ensuring her daughter took herbs to keep her from conceiving, but in reality, only pretending it is even the same girl.

From HannibalStark: That short guy is much more than just a "thinker" and if I recall he is actually sympathetic if not respectful of the Stark's and what they have been through.

Totally agree! Tyrion and Jon worked up a near friendship, and Tyrion provided the plans for Bran's saddle. And Tyrion now HATES his own house. I think that short guy will be the one, in the end, to figure out the peaceful compromise (incorporating Starks and Targaryans), though only after a LOT of pain and suffering.

[kraziness]

You guys have touched on most of the possibilities (and impossibilities), but one thing I wanted to say that I'm not sure we'll see a sweeping wave of Stark vengance- from anyone. Bit here and there, sure. A restoration of the house in some way, probably.

I tend to think that those involved in Stark's fall will continue to get bit but, IMO it will mostly continue to happen separately- not necessarily by a Stark hand. We've already seen Lannister and Theon get bit by kharma, the Cleganes too. It's easy to see how Frey and Bolton will get theirs, but perhaps not from a Stark.

[Visual909]

You're honest;y probably right on that. It would be silly to think they all would be punished at one time for what they did to the Starks alone considering they all so far have been destroyed from harming other people as well. And it has been rather amusing that they all seem to be the cause of their own downfalls.

[Brother Seamus]

the 2 things that tome preclude the "Jeyne is pregnant theory" are that it's made pretty clear that her mother was giving her contraceptive potions, and more important, the timeline doesn't work. the plot will have to be tied up in a matter of months, maybe a year or 2 at most. rob's heir couldn't play a significant role in that.