Fire Eater Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I honestly don't think Jon would pay heed to the traditional trappings of power in Kings landing.He'd know what Jaime did to both Aerys and Robert.He'd know what befell both his father and Jon Arryn.I think he'd rule hands on, and eschew the handship and kingsguard.Jon is Stark, through and through. Such frivoulties irritate, and he'd rightly drop both, were he to ascend.The members of the Kingsguard were to just more than guard the king or provide a trapping of power, but to serve as the paragons and models of knighthood and chivalry throughout Westeros.Just because of something one Kingsguard did makes the whole institution corrupt or unnecessary?The Hand of the King can provide good counsel, and Jon knows the value of good, honest counsel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Undefeated Gaul Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 Yeah, regardless he would need capable people to protect him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frosted King Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 The members of the Kingsguard were to just more than guard the king or provide a trapping of power, but to serve as the paragons and models of knighthood and chivalry throughout Westeros.Just because of something one Kingsguard did makes the whole institution corrupt or unnecessary?The Hand of the King can provide good counsel, and Jon knows the value of good, honest counsel.Don't see it.Jon knows the history.Cole crowned the wrong Targ, leading to the Dance of Dragons.Lannister killed one king via blade, another by seed, leading to the War of the five kings, which cost the lives of his father, brother and stepmother.Jon would likely have a guard, but i doubt he'd pay any heed to the ceremony of the kingsguard.Not after what they did to his sister.It's a flawed instituition, and Jon isn't one to let things go when they've outlived their usefulness.Hand of the king is fine in theory, but Jon would hear counsel from anyone he'd respect.No need to elevate one more than the other.A maester/grandmaester/archmaester would suffice for most things.Trim away the fat of the court, and you trim away the intrigue as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Don't see it.Jon knows the history.Cole crowned the wrong Targ, leading to the Dance of Dragons.Lannister killed one king via blade, another by seed, leading to the War of the five kings, which cost the lives of his father, brother and stepmother.Jon would likely have a guard, but i doubt he'd pay any heed to the ceremony of the kingsguard.Not after what they did to his sister.It's a flawed instituition, and Jon isn't one to let things go when they've outlived their usefulness.All institutions are flawed, because they are operated by people who are inherently flawed beings.Men like Criston Cole, Boros Blount and Jaime Lannister only make up a minority of the men who served in the KG. The NW is an even more flawed institution, does that mean Jon would disband it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frosted King Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 All institutions are flawed, because they are operated by people who are inherently flawed beings.Men like Criston Cole, Boros Blount and Jaime Lannister only make up a minority of the men who served in the KG. The NW is an even more flawed institution, does that mean Jon would disband it?What makes the nightswatch flawed?The kingsguard is flawed due to the absolute nature of their service.And what is the need for the kingsguard?Doesn't a normal retinue of guardsmen serve the same point, without the vanity and arrogance that comes with the ceremony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 What makes the nightswatch flawed?The kingsguard is flawed due to the absolute nature of their service.And what is the need for the kingsguard?Doesn't a normal retinue of guardsmen serve the same point, without the vanity and arrogance that comes with the ceremony?The NW is made up mostly of common criminals instead of knights.I don't see any arrogance that comes from Barristan. I see no vanity or arrogance in the ceremony. Like some people view the NW, it is considered an honor to be a member of the KG. Until recently, knights who were honorable as well as possessing above average martial prowess, and people looked up to them, providing something to emulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frosted King Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I hold no great romantic love of knights, and it appears perhaps you do.A sword is a sword, its the substance of the men who wield them that matter.Ala, Tyrions speech to Bronn after they left the Vale.The elevation of "best knights in the land" lends itself to self-importance, ala a Jaime or Loras.And before recently, you had Criston Cole, Toyne and others.If Cole was merely one of the guardsmen of Viserys, his crowning Aegon? would've amounted to nil.But since he was LC of "THE KINGSGUARD" it lent import to his decision, and from there war was inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnSnow Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 King : Jon Queen: ValHand: Tyrion (with his lady Sansa by his side)Grand Maester: MarwynMaster of Coin: ManderlyMaster of Laws: StannisMaster of Ships: DavosMaster at Arms: BrydenMaster of Whispers : Arya(All of those will be on small council)KGs1. Mance Ryder (Lord commander of KGs)2. Greatjon3. Garlan Tyrell4. Brienne5. Balon swann6. Tormund 7. ArchibaldWarden of North: Rickard starkWarden of South: Arienne MartellWarden of West: Edmure TullyLord commander of watch : Samwell tarly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Undefeated Gaul Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 King : JonQueen: ValHand: Tyrion (with his lady Sansa by his side)Grand Maester: MarwynMaster of Coin: ManderlyMaster of Laws: StannisMaster of Ships: DavosMaster at Arms: BrydenMaster of Whispers : Arya(All of those will be on small council)KGs1. Mance Ryder (Lord commander of KGs)2. Greatjon3. Garlan Tyrell4. Brienne5. Balon swann6. Tormund7. ArchibaldWarden of North: Rickard starkWarden of South: Arienne MartellWarden of West: Edmure TullyLord commander of watch : Samwell tarlyNice selection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamutt Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 LC of the KG- Barristan the BoldKG:2. Balon Swann3. Loras Tyrell4. Strong Sam Stone5. Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun6. Brienne Tarth7. Garth "Greysteel" HightowerPlease make it happen !14 feet giant who is as strong as twelve men in full plate armor. :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Procrastination Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I Doubt he will be 'King and I don´t want him to, but it is a nice consideration.King: JonHand of the King: Tyrion (they will make a nice duo)Grand Maester: SamMaster of Laws: StannisMaster of ships: Davos or Cotter PykeMaster of Coin: ManderlyMaster of Laws: AryaMaster of Magic: Bran.Kingsguard:LC Brienne of TarthGreatjonTormundBlackfishGarlan TyrellAlysanne MormontGendry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I hold no great romantic love of knights, and it appears perhaps you do.I don't, I just have a certain respect for those who actually try to live up to the idea of chivalry like Dunk and Brienne. I wasn't talking about the knight's swords as you said, but about the men who wore the white cloak. Loras was self-important and arrogant before he joined the KG. Jaime himself stated that comes with being too good too young or, a warrior prodigy.You're cherry picking members of the KG to support your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 This is my ideal council. Not what I think would actually happen.King - Jon Longclaw, First of his Name, King of the First Men, Andals and Rhoynar, Lord of Seven Kingdoms. (New name to separate from Starks and/or Targaryans, Titles reversed to reflect Northen origin)Hand - Stannis Baretheon Lord of Storm's End and Lord-Protector of High Garden. Warden of the South (The Florent's get Highgarden but only through marriage, Stannis gets land, honours and a job he feels qualified for)Master of Ships - Davos Seaworth, Lord of Dragonstone (rewards for his service, Dragonstone is the best place for a Westerosi navy to reside)Master of Coin - Wyman Manderly, Lord of White HarbourMaster of Law - Tyrion Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock (Tyrion and Jon get along, Tyrion is well read and was a fair and just Hand of the King)Master of Whispers - Mance Rayder, Lord of the Twins (I was going to say the Dreadfort but that place is burnt and stripped till nothing remains, gets him away from Northerners who might dislike him, but puts him in a place to protect the North. Uses bards and washerwomen for information and assassination)Archmaester - Sam (someone like Merywn would likely be there until Sam earnt his full chain, I'd love to see Randyl Tarly frustrated that his son is on the small council)Lord Commander of the Kingsguard - Brynden Tully (Jon is Robb's heir, he will never marry, brings honour to the job) Will think of KingsguardAlso have votes but aren't present all the time.Lord Commander of the Nights Watch - Benjen Stark (turns out to be alive all along, gives the Watch more presence in the kingdom)Warden of the West - Asha Greyjoy Lady of Pyke (she was always willing for an alliance, strips power away from Casterly Rock)Warden of the East - Harry Arryn Lord of the Vale, (Presumably controlled by an expert Sansa)Warden of the North - Rickon Stark Lord of Winterfell, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Wun Wun Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Queen - Arianne Martell; you don't conquer Dorne, you marry into it. Hand - Jaime Lannister; Why? I just think their stories are going to intersect before the end. But Jon won't kill him, he'll turn him into an ally, one who wins him the Westerlands (Tyrion is throwing in his lot with Aegon I think, so he's going down with that ship before the end). And I just want to see a Hand without a hand :)Master of Whispers - Bran; Bran actually has little birds to do his snooping. And they cover a lot more ground than those poor kids Varys is exploiting.LC of the Kingsguard - Arya; Not immediately, but when she is older. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but she is turning into a very lethal person isn't she? And probably far more suited to handle the intrigues of court than someone like Barristan b/c of her ability to spot lies with her FM training. Between her, Ghost and Nymeria I'd say Jon would be pretty damn well protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavosSeaworthy Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 King: JonHand: Stannis (He coveted this position more than he ever wanted to be king)Ships: Davos (Davos knows Ships)Coin: Willas (He is a Tyrell and a smart one)Laws: Blackfish (He is an hounerable fellow)Grandmaester: SamWhispers: Arya and Bran (Arya would be the physical position holder and has the skill set to do this, Bran would be the ultimate spy and communicate with Arya through Weirwood)Kingsgaurd LC: Mance (He is a skilled warrior)other members:Loras (Good swordsmen, Mance would put him in his place and not fawn over him)Sandor (He is a great warrior and more knightly than most knights)Justin Massey (Seems like a loyal guy, Stannis trusts him)Tormund (He is a giant, thats awesome)Balon Swann (Seems like a traditionalist, he would keep his oath)Brianne (Meh, Why not, she has honour) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old God Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Probably a long shot but here goes...King: Jon King of WesterosQueen: Val (the 8th Kingdom)The Kings Hand: Willas TyrellMaster of Ships: Asha GreyjoyMaster of Coin: Tyrion LannisterMaster of Law: Davos SeaworthMaster of Whispers:Tyene SandArchmaester: Marwyn the mageKingsguardBrynden Tully(LC)Benjen StarkBrienne of TarthGarlan TyrellIron EmmettGerold DayneMeera ReedWardensFar North: Tormund GiantsbaneNear North: Rickon Stark (with a council of Northen Lords)East: Harry Arryn/ Sansa StarkWest: Martyn LannisterSouth: Arienne MartellThis senario works on the fact that The Wall is gone and the Nights watch is disbanded after the Others have been defeated (Danny the Slayer ect..) The Small council was chosen on political balance, and are capable of completing their roles , Jon marries Val and is accepted as King in the North with the Northmen voting who represents them in Kings Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Areo Mace Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Tormund (He is a giant, thats awesome)Tormund is not a giant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idler Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 This is my ideal council. Not what I think would actually happen.Master of Law - Tyrion Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock (Tyrion and Jon get along, Tyrion is well read and was a fair and just Hand of the King)Well, he just made disappear a singer now and then....Why not make him Master of Free Press (just for redemption...)? :idea: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyrian_Goddess Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Half wits and fools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barty Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 No one - He's a Stark. He will rule like the old Kings of Winter (IF he becomes King) - They did not need Kingsgurads and Council Members. Sure he will have some bodyguards - but that duty can be performed by guardsmen like Ned had in KL or during war time by sons of his bannermen and knights like Robb had(SmallJon, Dacey, Eddard and Torrhen Karstark etc.).He will have a Maester though and that role can be filled by Sam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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