Ned's crypt, Lady Dustin, Pink letter

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

It has been said in the forum that there some kind of counsel in Starfall that decides if someone is worthy to carry the sword of the morning, "dawn". I'm not really sure about that, lemme wiki it.

House Dayne of Starfall

Coat of arms Lavander proper, a sword across a falling star all of the same Seat Starfall Current Lord Edric Dayne Region Dorne Title Lord of Starfall Overlord House Martell Cadet Branch House Dayne of High Hermitage Ancestral Weapon Dawn

Some sworn swords of House Dayne by Jen Zee ©

House Dayne of Starfall is a Dornish noble house sworn to House Martell. The Sword of the Morning is a title given to a Dayne knight who is considered worthy of wielding the greatsword Dawn, a blade said to be created from the heart of falling star.

So it doesn't seem that Ashara could just say "no you take it with you", or that Ned could just take it as this would raise quite an issue in Starfall, and Dorne. Edric will most likely be named the new Sword of the morning. Perhaps thats where he's headed after breaking off from Lady Stoneheart.

Of course Lady Ashara could've jumped from the tower with the sword (or pretended to...) but that would seem like a detail that wouldn't be left out of the account of her death.

[AemonTargaryen]

It has been said in the forum that there some kind of counsel in Starfall that decides if someone is worthy to carry the sword of the morning, "dawn". I'm not really sure about that, lemme wiki it.

So it doesn't seem that Ashara could just say "no you take it with you", or that Ned could just take it as this would raise quite an issue in Starfall, and Dorne. Edric will most likely be named the new Sword of the morning. Perhaps thats where he's headed after breaking off from Lady Stoneheart.

Of course Lady Ashara could've jumped from the tower with the sword (or pretended to...) but that would seem like a detail that wouldn't be left out of the account of her death.

What about Darkstar? Isn't he one of the best warriors in Dorne? I would have thought he might be the next Sword of the Morning.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

What about Darkstar? Isn't he one of the best warriors in Dorne? I would have thought he might be the next Sword of the Morning.

I almost wanted to throw his name out there as well but IDK, he seems so rogue like a lone wolf... Yes he definitely could've ridden for starfall after his encounter with Hotah, and we can't count him out. :cheers:

[Mammothsbane]

What about Darkstar? Isn't he one of the best warriors in Dorne? I would have thought he might be the next Sword of the Morning.

He's from a different branch of House Dayne though. He isn't from Starfall - he's from High Hermitage

[Bastard of the White Knife]

I've always thought Lady Dustin meant more to the plot than meets the eye!

She's going to have an important role to play - as are the crypts. GRRM has spent too much time on both. I think Lady Dustin is (a) not a Stark hater and (B) very curious about Ned's bones and crypts for a reason. What that reason is I have no idea. I cannot wait for TWoW.

[Mammothsbane]

I think Lady Dustin is (a) not a Stark hater

Ugh, I hope not. I love the Starks too, but I don't want everyone to be a huge Stark loyalist.. would be so boring.

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

Am I the only one who's convinced that Lady Dustin was just putting on a show?

Let's see...

Starks: Ned didn't bring her already-dead husband's bones (which I'm sure she loathes him for) and she still has lingering affections for Brandon.

Boltons: Domeric was her nephew who was murdered by Ramsay, whom Roose now named his heir. Not to mention her sister died while being married to Roose as well (and there have been sinister speculations about that.) ALSO, Boltons' strongest are allies are Frey's, whom EVERY SINGLE northern lord and lady despises.

Aenys suggests Wyman Manderly and his knights as suspects. Dustin replies that "night work is not knight's work". She then turns the conversation to the

Red Wedding

. If Wyman hates the Freys, is because the man lost kin at their Wedding. But the

Umbers

,

Flints

,

Cerwyns

,

Tallharts

, and

Slates

all had men serving with Robb Stark, and all lost them at the Wedding. Therefore all have reasons to hate the Freys. Roger helpfully points out that the Ryswells and Dustins of Barrowton also lost men there. With a "feral smile" Dustin makes clear that she too bears a grudge against the Freys and announces:

"The North remembers, Frey."

(ASOIAF Wiki)

Who do you think she would hate more? She's a bitter and angry woman, and no Stark loyalist, but it seems to me like she has more direct reasons to hate the Boltons.

I think she went down to the crypts for another reason, and made up the cover story which would not only explain her presence there, but also ensure Boltons of her "loyalty." Seeing as Reek is their creature, likely that squid ran and told them everything.

ASOIAF Wiki states:

The following day, Theon recalls that the Ryswells were one of several houses sworn to House Stark for countless generations. Making their current loyalty uncertain.

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

Ugh, I hope not. I love the Starks too, but I don't want everyone to be a huge Stark loyalist.. would be so boring.

They're not. You may remember this one House... what's their name... Bolton?

As for the reason why most northerners have a worship-like, almost mythical love for the Stark's, there are speculations in Heresy threads. I suggest you read them, they're very interesting =)

[Greggles]

Ugh, I hope not. I love the Starks too, but I don't want everyone to be a huge Stark loyalist.. would be so boring.

Who says she has to be a huge Stark Loyalist? Why not craving to be a power behind the throne, Rickon's throne. She has plenty of reason's to hate both the Starks and the Boltons. She's also had a chance to take the measure of Bolton heir, Ramsay. Maybe her hypothetical support for house Stark is a purely pragmatic decision.

Look at it this way, Lady Dustin knows what a horrible monster Ramsay is, but seeing as how the Bolton's are dominant in the North and the Starks are completely wiped out, Ms. Dustin alligns herself with them in order to secure House Bolton's favour loudly denouncing the dead Brandon Stark so as not to incur Roose's suspicion.

Manderly (who is now revealed as being damned shrewd) presents Lady Dustin with Wex's story, and Lady Dustin seeks corroborating evidence within the crypts about the swords. Having that confirmation, she's now faced with a choice, support Rickon's claim or support Roose/Ramsay's claim.

Who does she think she is more likely to control?

A boy king a decade away from adulthood, or a cold psychopathic traitor (Roose) and his crazed baseborn son?

[redriver]

Who says she has to be a huge Stark Loyalist? Why not craving to be a power behind the throne, Rickon's throne. She has plenty of reason's to hate both the Starks and the Boltons. She's also had a chance to take the measure of Bolton heir, Ramsay. Maybe her hypothetical support for house Stark is a purely pragmatic decision.

Look at it this way, Lady Dustin knows what a horrible monster Ramsay is, but seeing as how the Bolton's are dominant in the North and the Starks are completely wiped out, Ms. Dustin alligns herself with them in order to secure House Bolton's favour loudly denouncing the dead Brandon Stark so as not to incur Roose's suspicion.

Manderly (who is now revealed as being damned shrewd) presents Lady Dustin with Wex's story, and Lady Dustin seeks corroborating evidence within the crypts about the swords. Having that confirmation, she's now faced with a choice, support Rickon's claim or support Roose/Ramsay's claim.

Who does she think she is more likely to control?

A boy king a decade away from adulthood, or a cold psychopathic traitor (Roose) and his crazed baseborn son?

You're making sense about Lady D being pragmatic,but where does Wex come into it?Especially about the swords and the crypts.

[Greggles]

You're making sense about Lady D being pragmatic,but where does Wex come into it?Especially about the swords and the crypts.

Manderly (or one of his proxies) relays Wex's story to Lady D. She seeks corroborating evidence in the crypts, the missing swords.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

Lady Dustin may just be honest here "all of my favorite Starks are dead" (parpaphrasing). GRRM has proven time and time again that the characters are not your typical archetypes and it their sense of "good" and "evil" are not as important as what motivates them. Lady Dustin is a shrewd shrew of a woman (lol) who's had a lot of time to brood on wrongs done to her, and the way things "should" have been. She's a widow who has apparently been in mourning since the rebellion (lol always wearing black). She stands to gain a lot by joining with the Bolton cause, esp if he is truly planning to become the new King of the North. Though it seems when she speaks with Theon about "Arya" crying that she can see Roose Bolton's best laid plans are hanging by a thread...

She's in a good position to come out okay no matter how it goes I guess, I think she is more cunning than we know.

[The Lord's Kiss]

I'm praying that she did something in the crypts to allow Stannis and his army to enter.

This would of course be after the battle in which the Bolton and the Frey heavy horse rush onto the lake that has been punctured full of holes only to have it collapse beneath them and freeze to death. Poor horses.

Unless Manderly is planning on joining forces, faking Stannis' death, and then riding back into Winterfell under the guise of Freys, but that carries risks. I'd much rather Stannis and co. sneak in undetected and massacre everyone in the dead of night. Theon has to kill Ramsay, Manderly MUST live, but the Bolton and Freys in Winterfell should be extinguished. For this Lady Dustin can have all the lemony lemony lemoncakes she wants.

[Greggles]

Lady Dustin may just be honest here "all of my favorite Starks are dead" (parpaphrasing). GRRM has proven time and time again that the characters are not your typical archetypes and it their sense of "good" and "evil" are not as important as what motivates them. Lady Dustin is a shrewd shrew of a woman (lol) who's had a lot of time to brood on wrongs done to her, and the way things "should" have been. She's a widow who has apparently been in mourning since the rebellion (lol always wearing black). She stands to gain a lot by joining with the Bolton cause, esp if he is truly planning to become the new King of the North. Though it seems when she speaks with Theon about "Arya" crying that she can see Roose Bolton's best laid plans are hanging by a thread...

She's in a good position to come out okay no matter how it goes I guess, I think she is more cunning than we know.

Kind of like a Northern Littlefinger?

I like it.

[Mammothsbane]

They're not. You may remember this one House... what's their name... Bolton?

As for the reason why most northerners have a worship-like, almost mythical love for the Stark's, there are speculations in Heresy threads. I suggest you read them, they're very interesting =)

Well I obviously didn't mean the Bolton's. I mean big bad Bolton's betray the lovable Starks. It's more realistic that some of the great houses of the North dislike the Starks as opposed to Bolton's making a pragmatic decision and everyone hating them for it. It's just kind of lame for every Northern house outside the Bolton's to be big, secret Stark loyalists working in a conspiracy to bring about the betrayers.

And Lady Dustin was mad because 1) Rickon Stark took her love from her and 2) Her husband died fighting for Stark and then didn't bring his bones back.

Who says she has to be a huge Stark Loyalist? Why not craving to be a power behind the throne, Rickon's throne. She has plenty of reason's to hate both the Starks and the Boltons. She's also had a chance to take the measure of Bolton heir, Ramsay. Maybe her hypothetical support for house Stark is a purely pragmatic decision.

Look at it this way, Lady Dustin knows what a horrible monster Ramsay is, but seeing as how the Bolton's are dominant in the North and the Starks are completely wiped out, Ms. Dustin alligns herself with them in order to secure House Bolton's favour loudly denouncing the dead Brandon Stark so as not to incur Roose's suspicion.

Manderly (who is now revealed as being damned shrewd) presents Lady Dustin with Wex's story, and Lady Dustin seeks corroborating evidence within the crypts about the swords. Having that confirmation, she's now faced with a choice, support Rickon's claim or support Roose/Ramsay's claim.

Who does she think she is more likely to control?

A boy king a decade away from adulthood, or a cold psychopathic traitor (Roose) and his crazed baseborn son?

I'm confused as to why you think Manderly would risk telling anyone his Rickon plan, let alone someone who has been firmly established to be on Team Bolton.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

I'm praying that she did something in the crypts to allow Stannis and his army to enter.

She made sure the crypt door was unburied and not frozen shut. That was the whole purpose of the trip into the crypts- everything else was just a smokescreen presented to Theon, who is a known Bolton tool. It won't be Stannis entering the crypts, though. It will be a northern force probably headed by Howland Reed.

I suspect all those northern lords in Winterfell are just setting Roose up. The key piece of evidence to support this is that the Cerwyns are there. The Cerwyns are next-door neighbors to the Starks- they would certainly recognize both Arya and Jeyne. They are simply playing along until Roose weakens himself by sending away some of his forces. They will then fall on the remaining Dreadfort men, with the help of the men coming in through the crypts.

The important crypt will be Lyanna's. It may contain a letter for Jon, Dark Sister, a dragon egg, and/or possibly Rhaegar's harp.

[Greggles]

I'm confused as to why you think Manderly would risk telling anyone his Rickon plan, let alone someone who has been firmly established to be on Team Bolton.

He'd have to tell someone, you don't take on the Bolton's alone that's for sure. Manderly is as wily as he is fat, and he know's that Lady Dustin has reason to hate Ramsey for killing her nephew (Domeric) and reason to distrust the Boltons after the Red Wedding.

I'm with you on disliking the idea that everyone (excepting the Boltons) in the North is a Stark loyalist. My theory is that she's gonna side with Rickon's claim for purely pragmatic reasons.

[Mammothsbane]

He'd have to tell someone, you don't take on the Bolton's alone that's for sure. Manderly is as wily as he is fat, and he know's that Lady Dustin has reason to hate Ramsey for killing her nephew (Domeric) and reason to distrust the Boltons after the Red Wedding.

I'm with you on disliking the idea that everyone (excepting the Boltons) in the North is a Stark loyalist. My theory is that she's gonna side with Rickon's claim for purely pragmatic reasons.

I don't disagree that she'd bail on the Bolton's. I just don't think Manderly would risk blowing his cover for really no reward. I think Manderly is savvy enough to know that when Rickon comes back (assuming Davos is successful) she'll change sides without having to tell her about it beforehand. It just seems like an unnecessary risk. Why tell her now? She can't do anything except potentially sell him out.

[redriver]

I don't disagree that she'd bail on the Bolton's. I just don't think Manderly would risk blowing his cover for really no reward. I think Manderly is savvy enough to know that when Rickon comes back (assuming Davos is successful) she'll change sides without having to tell her about it beforehand. It just seems like an unnecessary risk. Why tell her now? She can't do anything except potentially sell him out.

The part where Ramsay is threatening to make a pair of boots out of Lady Dustin and to kill the Stark boys again.Roose chides him that he will lose all Northern support apart from Lady Dustin.

He's shrewd enough to know who's on his side by threat or by allegiance,and he firmly puts Lady D in the latter category,ahead of even the Freys.

That's gotta say somethin'.

ETA-I'm agreeing with your point about Manderly,in case it looks like I'm arguing!

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

Kind of like a Northern Littlefinger?

I like it.

Nice comparison lol :cheers:

SNIP...

The important crypt will be Lyanna's. It may contain a letter for Jon, Dark Sister, a dragon egg, and/or possibly Rhaegar's harp.

:eek: If any of those items are there I will crap my pants lol

He'd have to tell someone, you don't take on the Bolton's alone that's for sure. Manderly is as wily as he is fat,

LMAO :lmao: Hilarious! Welcome to the forum LOL.

Edited: for one too many smileys.