Charlotte Bronte and Sansa Stark

[Garlan Marius]

Greetings, all. This topic has the potential for a greater depth of inquiry than I'm going to give it, but I think its interesting nonetheless. A post on Facebook this morning called up a quote from Jane Eyre:

I am no bird; and no net ensares me; I am a free human being with an independent will.

One doesn't have to look too far to see the bird motifs surrounding Sansa: Sandor's pet name, Littlefinger's personal arms, the Eagle of House Arryn, Harry the "Young Falcon..." Similarly, she has spent most of her time "caged" and without the ability to exert her will, being completely at the mercy of various captors.

The point? As Jane becomes more able to exert her will, she can leave Rochester (Littlefinger in this case) though she comes back to him. GRRM would likely subvert this, though, having Sansa cathartically slay one or the other (or both.)

Obviously, this is a pretty loose parallel, but Sansa's good friend was named "Jeyne," which might lend a bit of support.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

Wow great theory. I'm gunna re-read Jane Eyre to see if there are more links :D

[Little Wing]

Nice, I like it! I see some of Sansa in Isabella from Wuthering Heights with her naive infatuation with Heathcliff / Sansa's with Joff. Young Cathy may have some similarities with Sansa as well - Catherine's daughter, mistreated by Heathcliff who loved only her mother... Heathcliff's mistreatment being different than LF's yes, but still mistreatment.

[NotSoSilentSister]

Well, there are some obvious parallels:

- Both attract the attention of Byronic hero types with dark pasts, who want to see them as their little bird and seek to instrumentalize them for their own redemption.

- Both are survivors of child abuse (Jane in that horrible boardings school, Sansa at the court of King's Landing) and come of age in a very hostile environment.

- Both are therefore simmering bundles of rage. They are deeply passionate, but become very skilled at hiding their true feelings.

- Both are put in charge of a child.

There are important differences however:

- Jane is famously plain, Sansa is famously beautiful.

- Jane is an introvert, Sansa is an extrovert.

- Jane never knew the comforts of a loving family, Sansa had a pretty sheltered upbringing until Ned died. But tragedy struck later in her llife.

- Jane is vulnerable, because she is poor and marginalized. Sansa is vulnerable because she is too important and therefore too valueable a pawn.

- Jane suffers because she does not perform femininity well enough - try as she might, she can't please people. Sanse suffers because she performs femininity almost too well, attracting the attention of people like LF whose desire causes her harm.

[Mad Madam Mim]

One doesn't have to look too far to see the bird motifs surrounding Sansa: Sandor's pet name, Littlefinger's personal arms, the Eagle of House Arryn, Harry the "Young Falcon..." Similarly, she has spent most of her time "caged" and without the ability to exert her will, being completely at the mercy of various captors.

The point? As Jane becomes more able to exert her will, she can leave Rochester (Littlefinger in this case) though she comes back to him. GRRM would likely subvert this, though, having Sansa cathartically slay one or the other (or both.)

Interesting! I think the first time we see Sansa asserting free will and making an independant choice which does not involve relying on others is when she chooses not to leave with Sandor when he offers to take her home at the the Battle of Blackwater. She revels in the role of damsel in distress and Sandor offering to take away is the big rescue her romantic mind has been hoping for however she does not go. Maybe Sansa needs to learn to make her own way without being rescued independently of Sandor before she is strong enough to handle Sandor and this is the start of her journey.

[Where Went Whent]

Trololol. What do we have here. Very soon we gonna see a post about how how LF has some connections to professor Moriarty.

[NotSoSilentSister]

Interesting! I think the first time we see Sansa asserting free will and making an independant choice which does not involve relying on others is when she chooses not to leave with Sandor when he offers to take her home at the the Battle of Blackwater.

Good point. Reminds me of the pivotal scene when Jane rejects Rochester (clearly Sandor is the Rochester stand-in, not LF - Lf is more of a Heathcliff) after she learns of his still very much alive wife. Lots of people were quite frustrated with Sansa when she did not go with the Hound, especially considering the later turn of event with regard to Littlefinger. But in fact joining the Hound at that time would have been a disastrous choice. We saw that he couldn't keep Arya safe and surely he would have failed as well with Sansa.

But just as Jane eventually returned to Rochester, when the distribution of power was reversed (she, the now wealthy heiress, and he, the cripple who had lost most of his fortune in the fire), Sansa might return to Sandor as well - not to be saved, but to save him.

[MrsManderly]

Good point. Reminds me of the pivotal scene when Jane rejects Rochester (clearly Sandor is the Rochester stand-in, not LF - Lf is more of a Heathcliff) after she learns of his still very much alive wife. Lots of people were quite frustrated with Sansa when she did not go with the Hound, especially considering the later turn of event with regard to Littlefinger. But in fact joining the Hound at that time would have been a disastrous choice. We saw that he couldn't keep Arya safe and surely he would have failed as well with Sansa.

But just as Jane eventually returned to Rochester, when the distribution of power was reversed (she, the now wealthy heiress, and he, the cripple who had lost most of his fortune in the fire), Sansa might return to Sandor as well - not to be saved, but to save him.

I must admit that the romantic in me really likes this theory! Rochester's injury coming from fire and rendering him lame (as well as temporarily blind) has parallels with Sandor's story, and Jeyne going from peniless governess to heiress would mirror at least the latter half of Sansa's (potential) arc - from Lannister's hostage, to LF's bastard daughter, back to Stark/Vale heiress.

There are of course many reasons why this sort of Sansan ending would be unrealistic in the Westeros context - their different social stations etc. - but it is a nice thought...

[NotSoSilentSister]

Another parallel that occured to me just now:

after rejecting Rochester, Jane is rescued by St. John - a man who wants to make her his wife in spite of being hopelessly in love with another woman he can't have, because he thinks Jane would make a good partner in crime (in his case: missionary work). He takes on a mentor role to mold her into an even better helpmate. Jane is for a moment tempted to consider his offer (out of sheer despair, because she has no other prospects), but she just can't forget Rochester. Memories of him give her the strenght to reject St. John.

If Sansa is Jane, Littlefinger would be her St. John. Like St. John, he is not really over his one true love Catelyn and intends to use Sansa as a replacement goldfish. But like St. John he sees Sansa's potential to become a useful helpmate and starts to mentor her, leading her on a path that might well make good use of her talents but would ultimately only make her miserable.

Just like Jane in her darkest moments might be desperate enough to consider St. John's offer, Sansa might be tempted as well. In Jane Eyre, it's the thought of Rochester that saves Jane from this sorry fate. Maybe the Hound could fulfil a similar function for Sansa?

[Mad Madam Mim]

Another parallel that occured to me just now:

after rejecting Rochester, Jane is rescued by St. John - a man who wants to make her his wife in spite of being hopelessly in love with another woman he can't have, because he thinks Jane would make a good partner in crime (in his case: missionary work). He takes on a mentor role to mold her into an even better helpmate. Jane is for a moment tempted to consider his offer (out of sheer despair, because she has no other prospects), but she just can't forget Rochester. Memories of him give her the strenght to reject St. John.

If Sansa is Jane, Littlefinger would be her St. John. Like St. John, he is not really over his one true love Catelyn and intends to use Sansa as a replacement goldfish. But like St. John he sees Sansa's potential to become a useful helpmate and starts to mentor her, leading her on a path that might well make good use of her talents but would ultimately only make her miserable.

Just like Jane in her darkest moments might be desperate enough to consider St. John's offer, Sansa might be tempted as well. In Jane Eyre, it's the thought of Rochester that saves Jane from this sorry fate. Maybe the Hound could fulfil a similar function for Sansa?

good thinking! Sansa is tempted by LF's talk of Harry the heir and winning Winterfell back for her, however, Sansa keeps pondering the famous unkiss between her and Sandor the night of BBW which GRRM has said will be significant in the future. This might be what casues Sansa to finally snap out of it and come to her senses and escape LF's clutches!

[NotSoSilentSister]

I'm not the biggest fan of the good ship Sansan, but I guess, if you absolutely have to do this thing, Jane Eyre is not the worst template. Pondering the potential paralells almost makes me go on board..

[green_caitlin]

Nice, I like it! I see some of Sansa in Isabella from Wuthering Heights with her naive infatuation with Heathcliff / Sansa's with Joff. Young Cathy may have some similarities with Sansa as well - Catherine's daughter, mistreated by Heathcliff who loved only her mother... Heathcliff's mistreatment being different than LF's yes, but still mistreatment.

Yes! I've also noticed some similarities with "Wuthering Heights", but I'd say that Sansa is young Cathy. There's another Heathcliff, obsessed with the mother and luring her daughter into his house. There's naive Isabella (Lysa), who is misguided into believing she's Heathcliff's true love and marries him to find out (OK, at the very end, but she does find out) that it was a fatal mistake. There's her spoilt and sickly son, whom "Cathy" has to see to and whom she can't stand and pity at the same time (though she doesn't marry him). Some time ago I read a thread where people wondered if Sweetrobin could be Petyr's son and I thought it would fit in with all these motives from Bronte's novel. :)

[NotSoSilentSister]

We already see how thinking of Sandor is the one thing that keeps Sansa's Stockholme-Syndrome somewhat at bay - I don't have the exacte quote available right now, but isn't there a passage where she compares LF quite unfavorably to Sandor, when she reflects that in spite of his current mentor-act, LF never ever lifted a little finger for her in King's Landing, unlike Sandor?

[brashcandy]

We already see how thinking of Sandor is the one thing that keeps Sansa's Stockholme-Syndrome somewhat at bay - I don't have the exacte quote available right now, but isn't there a passage where she compares LF quite unfavorably to Sandor, when she reflects that in spite of his current mentor-act, LF never ever lifted a little finger for her in King's Landing, unlike Sandor?

Sandor is one of those mentioned, along with Tyrion, Dontos and Garlan Tyrell IIRC. But yes, on the whole, Sansa remembers him as being honest and up front with her, qualities that no one expects to find in LF.

[Garlan Marius]

There are important differences however:

- Jane is famously plain, Sansa is famously beautiful.

- Jane is an introvert, Sansa is an extrovert.

- Jane never knew the comforts of a loving family, Sansa had a pretty sheltered upbringing until Ned died. But tragedy struck later in her llife.

- Jane is vulnerable, because she is poor and marginalized. Sansa is vulnerable because she is too important and therefore too valueable a pawn.

- Jane suffers because she does not perform femininity well enough - try as she might, she can't please people. Sansa suffers because she performs femininity almost too well, attracting the attention of people like LF whose desire causes her harm.

My first reservation after posting this was that Sansa is too attractive to be Jane. I disagree that Sansa is an extrovert, at least since Ned's death. She's been intentionally reserved in relationship to everyone, as she's surrounded by enemies. The rest of your points are quite valid criticisms, though.

I think the first time we see Sansa asserting free will and making an independant choice which does not involve relying on others is when she chooses not to leave with Sandor when he offers to take her home at the the Battle of Blackwater.

I tend to interpret this passage as more of her feeling a prior engagement with Dontos than an exertion of free will, but this makes sense in the context that the Hound is a bastardized Rochester. I didn't really think of Sandor here, but this stuck out to me:

Rochester's injury coming from fire and rendering him lame (as well as temporarily blind) has parallels with Sandor's story...

It isn't perfect, but the parallel is there, particularly if Littlefinger performs that St. John role. However, Littlefinger is too much of a bastard to be St. John, but he takes his cold, logical hermeneutic to an extreme. He isn't particularly repentant or willing to give anything up like St. John, by a long shot.

Trololol. What do we have here. Very soon we gonna see a post about how how LF has some connections to professor Moriarty.

I don't see how this is trolling. Authors love to make references to history and other works. GRRM is no exception. I think it is worth consideration since it could help us have a more nuanced view of this character and her arc.

[Lady Lea]

I disagree that Sansa is an extrovert, at least since Ned's death. She's been intentionally reserved in relationship to everyone, as she's surrounded by enemies. The rest of your points are quite valid criticisms, though.

Just because she had to be intentionally reserved due to the circumstances, doesn't mean she stops being an extrovert. Even Tyrion notices she has a gift with people during the Purple Wedding. She handles herself well in social situations, knows exactly what to say to everyone, and has a natural leadership quality (see: her taking over when Cersei left during the Blackwater Battle, and running the Eyre for LF after Lysa's death).

[NotSoSilentSister]

Just because she had to be intentionally reserved due to the circumstances, doesn't mean she stops being an extrovert. Even Tyrion notices she has a gift with people during the Purple Wedding. She handles herself well in social situations, knows exactly what to say to everyone, and has a natural leadership quality (see: her taking over when Cersei left during the Blackwater Battle, and running the Eyre for LF after Lysa's death).

Yep. Sansa is understandably quite guarded now, but she still enjoys the company of others a lot more than a genuinely introverted person would. It's one of the reasons why she's looking forward to no longer being locked up in the Eerie - she likes a livelier environment.

[Jaime's Wench]

I love Jane Eyre, and I agree that Sansa is the most 'Jane Eyresque' character. She always armed herself with courtesy too, no matter how many people wronged her, and she had a quiet enduring quality.

She also loved Rochester for who he was - even though she told him straight that he was not handsome. When she returns to him, he's a cripple and deformed, yet still she loves him. I wonder if this is indicative of the man Sansa will one day marry. She began with feelings for Joffrey and Loras, both handsome and apparently gallant knights. She seemed to have some feelings of attraction toward the Hound, but he didn't stick around long enough for them to play out. She doesn't have any real feelings for Petyr though - unlike Jane, whose love for Rochester grew with every day meeting him. I personally would love for her to grow to love Tyrion in that way. Of all the characters, he's one of the most disfigured with the most self-loathing Rochester-esque personality. It would be lovely if they were united again, only this time Sansa was willing to open her eyes and see him for who he is.

[Lady Lea]

It would be lovely if they were united again, only this time Sansa was willing to open her eyes and see him for who he is.

http://postimage.org/image/993vn1urx/

[NotSoSilentSister]

Nah, I don't think the Jane/Rochester-template would work for Sansa/Tyrion. The important thing about the Jane/Rochester ship is that they are both a bit asocial. She has all that simmering rage from her abusive upbringing and he's such a misanthrope and in contrast to her, he can afford to be unpleasant with people, which she kinda enjoys, I guess. That's a big part of the appeal.

Sansa has a bit of that dynamic with the Hound - she has to be always agreeable and pleasant, but he can be gruff and disagreeable and she's living vicariously throug him. Tyrion can be disagreeable too with his scathing wit, but it's more subtle, and probably provides less visceral satisfaction. Tyrion is not much like Rochester, personality-wise. He can't really afford to be either. He still trying to be amusing and win people over with his charm. He must try to please, just like Sansa. She might find that relateable, but it's not what she's looking for.

It's really not so much about the Beauty and the Beast type of deal, where the girl learns to look past appearances etc - in that context it's also really important to mention that Jane is no beauty herself. It doesn't really work so well if she's pretty like Sansa.