AGoT Reread: Direwolves, Dragons [eggs], Momont’s Raven, and Cats, Oh My! Pets or Providence?

Lady Wylla Manderly · November 20, 2012

Arya I (AGoT Chapter VIII)

Brief Summary: (Evita, I hope you don’t mind me sort of copying your style here, it just seemed easier and better than mine.) Arya is practicing needlework with Sansa, Beth Cassel, Jeyne Poole, and Princess Myrcella. She gets embarrassed about the poor quality of her needlework, and feels resentful of everyone’s obvious preference to her sister, and leaves the room despite Septa Mordane’s protests.

So she decides to watch the boys practice sword fighting in the yard, and joins Jon who’s also watching them. Arya and Jon talk, Jon teases her. The practice ends with Joffrey taunting Robb to the point of him getting so angry that Ser Rodrik has to restrain him.

Arya returns to her chambers, but unfortunately, Septa Mordane and her mother were waiting there already.

**

Her hair was a lusterless brown, and her face was long and solemn. Jeyne used to call her Arya Horseface, and neigh whenever she came near. It hurt that the one thing Arya could do better than her sister was ride a horse.

Arya clearly has “the Stark look” and it is later said that she has “the wolf blood.” I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we’re constantly being reminded of this (which draws parallels between Lyanna, Jon and Arya) – even Tyrion Lannister remarked that Jon had “more north” in him than his brothers.

Someone (I think it was Evita) drew parallels between Dothraki and their horses, and pointed out a few good mythological things about it. I would like to add a few of my own.

The Horse symbolises success, freedom, travel, courage, strength, power, nobility, wisdom and loyalty. It is also a symbol of life and death, grace and beauty.

“Life and death” bit is definitely interesting. I immediately thought about the House of Black and White. I’m not sure how much can wisdom, grace and beauty can apply to our Arya, but she’s young yet ; )

White horses have a special significance in the mythologies of cultures around the world. They are often associated with warrior-heroes.

According to the Bible, “the Pale Horseman” is Death.

In Scottish folklore, the kelpie or each uisge, a deadly supernatural water demon in the shape of a horse, is sometimes described as white, though other stories say it is black.

For more information about Arya and water parallels, read this thread if you haven’t already. “In the shape” reminds me of shape-shifting/changing, and therefore, Arya’s “facelessness.” I don’t think I need to explain the “white” and “black.”

Nymeria nipped eagerly at her hand as Arya untied her. She had yellow eyes. When they caught the sunlight, they gleamed like two golden coins.

You won’t like where I’m going with this, because I sure as hell don’t, as an Arya fan.

The ancient Greeks believed that in order to get to the land of Hades; were people went after they died, you had to cross the river Styx. Coins were placed on their eyes so that the dead person could pay the boatman Charon to ferry them across the river. Otherwise you would be trapped forever on the shores of the Styx and never go to Elisyum (paradise).

It can be interpreted as a sinister foreshadowing for Arya’s destiny, or simply as Arya’s connection to death. I hope it’s the latter.

Arya had named her after the warrior queen of the Rhoyne, who had led her people across the narrow sea.

Nymeria was a warrior queen of the Rhoynar who brought ten thousand ships across the narrow sea to the shores of Dorne. She struck an alliance with House Martell, taking King Mors as her husband. With his help, she conquered the rest of Dorne.

Arya’s warrior side is obvious, and I think it’s been established that the direwolves names are significant. Why a Queen, though? Not just a warrior, but a warrior QUEEN? Could Ned’s “You will marry a King” comment be relevant after all? Or is it a sign that Arya will someday lead a host? Or… since Nymeria left her home to never return, is it somewhat of a sadder foreshadowing?

Nymeria stalked closer on wary feet. Ghost, already larger than his litter mates, smelled her, gave her ear a careful nip, and settled back down.

I know many people consider this passage to be a possible “mating” in the future, but I don’t like that theory. :ack: So I’ll merely point out that this may indicate the close SIBLING bond they have that they don’t with any others.

It’s interesting that Ghost should be the largest of the litter, though. Aren’t albinos supposed to be physically weaker (in certain aspects)? One might have thought (in the beginning) that Robb’s wolf would be the biggest, but since we know what happens to him *sniff* I’ll take a wild and crackpot guess that Jon was always meant to be the leader of the pack in a fashion.

She spotted Theon Greyjoy beside him, his black doublet emblazoned with the golden kraken of his House, a look of wry contempt on his face.

This chapter focuses on sigils rather a lot. (Well, at least this bit of the chapter.) So I want to point out a few things about them.

In Norwegian, Kraken is the definite form of krake, a word designating an unhealthy animal or something twisted.

Greyjoys are twisted enough as it is but still… Reek, anyone?

They had always been close. Jon had their father’s face, as she did. They were the only ones. Robb and Sansa and Bran and even little Rickon all took after the Tullys, with easy smiles and fire in their hair.

Once again, the “Stark look” and the “Tully look” are emphasised.

He gave her a half smile. “Bastards are not allowed to damage young princes,” he said. “Any bruises they take in the practice yard must come from trueborn swords.”

Well, if Jon is in fact a legitimate son (Targaryens DID practice polygamy after all) there’s a major irony right there.

“Look at the arms on his surcoat,” Jon suggested.
Arya looked. An ornate shield had been embroidered on the prince’s padded surcoat. No doubt the needlework was exquisite. The arms were divided down the middle; on one side was the crowned stag of the royal House, on the other the lion of Lannister.
“The Lannisters are proud,” Jon observed. “You’d think the royal sigil would be sufficient, but no. He makes his mother’s House equal in honor to the king’s.”
“The woman is important too!” Arya protested.
Jon chuckled. “Perhaps you should do the same thing, little sister. Wed Tully to Stark in your arms.”
“A wolf with a fish in its mouth?” It made her laugh. “That would look silly. Besides, if a girl can’t fight, why should she have a coat of arms?”

A WOLF WITH A FISH IN ITS MOUTH. Excuse me for the caps lock. But I’m reminded of how Nymeria pulled Cat’s body out of the water (who was described as “a woman who was a fish” by the Ghost of High Heart) while Arya was warged in her.

I’ll go back to animal symbolisms before I depress myself any further.

LIONS are usually associated with: strength, nobility, determination, intensity, courage, conquest, pride, protection and authority. I’m not a huge fan of the Lannisters (understatement) but I’ve got to admit that the description fits rather well. Especially the “pride” bit.
Chnubis is a Roman god with both Egyptian and Greek properties. Depicted as a snake with a lion's head.

I can’t be the only one who’s reminded of Cersei and Tywin, right?

WOLVES are usually considered being: cautious of strangers, elusive by nature, family orientated, devoted, loyal and fearless.

Again, I feel like they all fit our little Starklings, one way or the other.

The wolves have literally THOUSANDS of legends and myths written about them, but the one’s that intrigued me the most were the following:

In European Antiquity, seeing a wolf before the beginning of a battle was an omen of victory, the wolf being symbolic both of the hunter and warrior.
In the mythology of the Turkic peoples, in Northern China a small Turkic village was raided by Chinese soldiers, but one small baby was left behind. An old she-wolf with a sky-blue mane named Asena found the baby and nursed him, then the she-wolf gave birth to half-wolf, half-human cubs, from whom the Turkic people were born.
According to the Roman tradition, a wolf was responsible for the childhood survival of the future founders of Rome, Romulus and Remus.

There are two major legends (both very famous and wide-spread in their respective regions) about wolves helping children survive. Weasel and Arya, Robert and Sansa… since the former is a past storyline, is it too crackpot of me to expect something from Sansa that may save Robert from Littlefinger’s clutches?

I’m afraid there isn’t much to go on about the fish and the stag – at least none that can be related to the story. (When I read that stags symbolise “purity,” I immediately thought of Robert and snorted.)

THE STAG was revered alongside the bull at Alaca Höyük and continued in the Hittite mythology as the protective deity whose name is recorded as dKAL. Other Hittite gods were often depicted standing on the backs of stags.

The stag and the bull? Perhaps Gendry will somehow learn his true origins after all.

You had best run back to your room, little sister. Septa Mordane will surely be lurking. The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You’ll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers.

What is this? I noticed this on my second reading of the serie (and I realise that it’s not necessarily connected to animals but I feel like it’s important nevertheless) and I felt my blood freeze. I’m HOPING that it means Arya will be doing a lot of “sewing” (killing) to rid Westeros of certain douchebags in the future… but the last part is a bit eerie. Again, I’m HOPING that it only means she’ll be “frozen” (and somewhat of a “heartless” person) rather than dead or worse… undead.

Ghost moving silently beside him. Nymeria started to follow too, then stopped and came back when she saw that Arya was not coming.

I second what I said earlier about Ghost/Nymeria symbolism.

evita mgfs · November 20, 2012

Arya I (AGoT Chapter VIII)
Brief Summary: (Evita, I hope you don’t mind me sort of copying your style here, it just seemed easier and better than mine.) Arya is practicing needlework with Sansa, Beth Cassel, Jeyne Poole, and Princess Myrcella. She gets embarrassed about the poor quality of her needlework, and feels resentful of everyone’s obvious preference to her sister, and leaves the room despite Septa Mordane’s protests.
So she decides to watch the boys practice sword fighting in the yard, and joins Jon who’s also watching them. Arya and Jon talk, Jon teases her. The practice ends with Joffrey taunting Robb to the point of him getting so angry that Ser Rodrik has to restrain him.
Arya returns to her chambers, but unfortunately, Septa Mordane and her mother were waiting there already
sic
Arya clearly has “the Stark look” and it is later said that she has “the wolf blood.” I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we’re constantly being reminded of this (which draws parallels between Lyanna, Jon and Arya) – even Tyrion Lannister remarked that Jon had “more north” in him than his brothers.
Someone (I think it was Evita) drew parallels between Dothraki and their horses, and pointed out a few good mythological things about it. I would like to add a few of my own.
The Horse symbolises success, freedom, travel, courage, strength, power, nobility, wisdom and loyalty. It is also a symbol of life and death, grace and beauty.
“Life and death” bit is definitely interesting. I immediately thought about the House of Black and White. I’m not sure how much can wisdom, grace and beauty can apply to our Arya, but she’s young yet ; )
White horses have a special significance in the mythologies of cultures around the world. They are often associated with warrior-heroes.
According to the Bible, “the Pale Horseman” is Death.
In Scottish folklore, the kelpie or each uisge, a deadly supernatural water demon in the shape of a horse, is sometimes described as white, though other stories say it is black.
For more information about Arya and water parallels, read this thread if you haven’t already. “In the shape” reminds me of shape-shifting/changing, and therefore, Arya’s “facelessness.” I don’t think I need to explain the “white” and “black.”
You won’t like where I’m going with this, because I sure as hell don’t, as an Arya fan.
The ancient Greeks believed that in order to get to the land of Hades; were people went after they died, you had to cross the river Styx. Coins were placed on their eyes so that the dead person could pay the boatman Charon to ferry them across the river. Otherwise you would be trapped forever on the shores of the Styx and never go to Elisyum (paradise).
It can be interpreted as a sinister foreshadowing for Arya’s destiny, or simply as Arya’s connection to death. I hope it’s the latter.
Nymeria was a warrior queen of the Rhoynar who brought ten thousand ships across the narrow sea to the shores of Dorne. She struck an alliance with House Martell, taking King Mors as her husband. With his help, she conquered the rest of Dorne.
Arya’s warrior side is obvious, and I think it’s been established that the direwolves names are significant. Why a Queen, though? Not just a warrior, but a warrior QUEEN? Could Ned’s “You will marry a King” comment be relevant after all? Or is it a sign that Arya will someday lead a host? Or… since Nymeria left her home to never return, is it somewhat of a sadder foreshadowing?
I know many people consider this passage to be a possible “mating” in the future, but I don’t like that theory. :ack: So I’ll merely point out that this may indicate the close SIBLING bond they have that they don’t with any others.
It’s interesting that Ghost should be the largest of the litter, though. Aren’t albinos supposed to be physically weaker (in certain aspects)? One might have thought (in the beginning) that Robb’s wolf would be the biggest, but since we know what happens to him *sniff* I’ll take a wild and crackpot guess that Jon was always meant to be the leader of the pack in a fashion
This chapter focuses on sigils rather a lot. (Well, at least this bit of the chapter.) So I want to point out a few things about them.
In Norwegian, Kraken is the definite form of krake, a word designating an unhealthy animal or something twisted.
Greyjoys are twisted enough as it is but still… Reek, anyone?
Once again, the “Stark look” and the “Tully look” are emphasised
sic
A WOLF WITH A FISH IN ITS MOUTH. Excuse me for the caps lock. But I’m reminded of how Nymeria pulled Cat’s body out of the water (who was described as “a woman who was a fish” by the Ghost of High Heart) while Arya was warged in her.
I’ll go back to animal symbolisms before I depress myself any further.
LIONS are usually associated with: strength, nobility, determination, intensity, courage, conquest, pride, protection and authority. I’m not a huge fan of the Lannisters (understatement) but I’ve got to admit that the description fits rather well. Especially the “pride” bit.
Chnubis is a Roman god with both Egyptian and Greek properties. Depicted as a snake with a lion's head.
I can’t be the only one who’s reminded of Cersei and Tywin, right?
WOLVES are usually considered being: cautious of strangers, elusive by nature, family orientated, devoted, loyal and fearless.
Again, I feel like they all fit our little Starklings, one way or the other.
The wolves have literally THOUSANDS of legends and myths written about them, but the one’s that intrigued me the most were the following:
In European Antiquity, seeing a wolf before the beginning of a battle was an omen of victory, the wolf being symbolic both of the hunter and warrior.
In the mythology of the Turkic peoples, in Northern China a small Turkic village was raided by Chinese soldiers, but one small baby was left behind. An old she-wolf with a sky-blue mane named Asena found the baby and nursed him, then the she-wolf gave birth to half-wolf, half-human cubs, from whom the Turkic people were born.
According to the Roman tradition, a wolf was responsible for the childhood survival of the future founders of Rome, Romulus and Remus.
There are two major legends (both very famous and wide-spread in their respective regions) about wolves helping children survive. Weasel and Arya, Robert and Sansa… since the former is a past storyline, is it too crackpot of me to expect something from Sansa that may save Robert from Littlefinger’s clutches?
I’m afraid there isn’t much to go on about the fish and the stag – at least none that can be related to the story. (When I read that stags symbolise “purity,” I immediately thought of Robert and snorted.)
THE STAG was revered alongside the bull at Alaca Höyük and continued in the Hittite mythology as the protective deity whose name is recorded as dKAL. Other Hittite gods were often depicted standing on the backs of stags.
The stag and the bull? Perhaps Gendry will somehow learn his true origins after all.
What is this? I noticed this on my second reading of the serie (and I realise that it’s not necessarily connected to animals but I feel like it’s important nevertheless) and I felt my blood freeze. I’m HOPING that it means Arya will be doing a lot of “sewing” (killing) to rid Westeros of certain douchebags in the future… but the last part is a bit eerie. Again, I’m HOPING that it only means she’ll be “frozen” (and somewhat of a “heartless” person) rather than dead or worse… undead.
I second what I said earlier about Ghost/Nymeria symbolism.

:bowdown: :bowdown: THE PACK SURVIVES: AWESOME POST!! You have many, many good thoughts, but I will just mention your observation about Jon’s remark to Arya about finding her once the winter thaws with a needle frozen in her hand.

You’ll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers.

To help you feel a bit more optimistic about these “maybe” providential words, I propose that Jon is “simply” teasing his little sister, trying to boost her spirits about the inequity of life that is such a difficult and all-consuming lesson Arya learns early in her journey. Also, note that Martin does not say “dead body”, which is a good sign.

And here is an Evita “out-of-her-ass” interp: Martin may be “punning” the word sewing with the sound-alike word SOWING, which means “to plant seed, [transitive and intransitive verb]; to scatter or plant seed on an area of land in order to grow crops” (Encarta Dictionary). Now, If this is a pun, the phrase may intimate a prosperous and fertile future for Arya. Where she will become the mother of many; on the other hand, it may suggest that Arya will be instrumental in fertilizing, tilling, and sowing “new life” or vegetation in efforts to rebuild and repopulate the war torn lands of wherever Arya ends up.

Metaphorically, a pun on sewing / sowing may even refer to Arya’s job of “sowing” a crop ogf dead folk, planting their souls in the nightlands as a religious adjunct to Him of Many Faces. Arya will populate the land hereafter with the souls of the dearly departed, those chosen to receive “the gift” only Him of Many Faces may bestow.

I also am reposting an observation I made in another thread about Arya in this POV, one concerning her sewing with needle and thread:

I wish to reference the first sentence, “Arya’s stitches were crooked again” (68). In Martin's first sentences of his POV’s, I often find a little gem. Martin’s verb choice of “crooked” strikes me as providential, for so much of Arya’s journey through the novels is “crooked” – often off course, in one direction, then another.

[i will add more reaction to your post later - I promise!] :cheers:

Think of the Greek Fates who spin the thread of life. The fates control the destiny, guided by Zeus, of humankind.

Arya seems to be following a path, quite crooked, sewing with her needle just at Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos spin a thread of life. She is even there at the end of some lives.
The Wiki says: In Greek mythology, the Moirai (Ancient Greek: Μοῖραι, "apportioners", Latinized as Moerae)—often known in English as the Fates—were the white-robed incarnations of destiny (Roman equivalent: Parcae, euphemistically the "sparing ones", or Fata; also equivalent to the Germanic Norns). Their number became fixed at three: Clotho (spinner), Lachesis (allotter) and Atropos (unturnable).
They controlled the metaphorical thread of life of every mortal from birth to death. They were independent, at the helm of necessity, directed fate, and watched that the fate assigned to every being by eternal laws might take its course without obstruction. The gods and men had to submit to them, but in the case of Zeus he is portrayed in two ways: as the only one who can command them (the Zeus Moiragetes) or as the one who is also bound to the Moiras as incarnation of the fates.^[1] In the Homeric poems Moira or Aisa, is related with the limit and end of life, and Zeus appears as the guider of destiny. In the Theogony of Hesiod, the three Moirai are personified, and are acting over the gods.^[2] Later they are daughters of Zeus and Themis, who was the embodiment of divine order and law. In Plato's Republic the Three Fates are daughters of Ananke (necessity). ^[3]⁽^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moirai}⁾

Alia of the knife · November 21, 2012

I also tend to agree that, after reading that part again, in this case Jons words are just that- teasing.

He is emphasizing the more she tries to escape her fate, the more likely she wll be caught up in it.

I think even though he naturally accepts her unconventiality, (and the why will become much more important once his real mother is revealed), he also understands that she may well suffer for it in their current society.

Arya has actually already been betrothed, (Frey), and then "married,"(to Bolten), at least by proxy which I hope doesn't become an issue since that was a practice in that time.

The Horse is an animal that symbolizes speed, power, grace as well as freedom, and both Arya and Lyanna were associated with them as much as their wolves.

Lyanna, more often than not is rarily referred to by her name, but by expletives such as wolf maid, wolf girl, etc., in that way was she personified and classified rather than called by her name: "the LADY Lyanna."

Arya is often compared to Lyanna fondly in the North, but it will remain to be seen how she will be received once back in Westeros, looking like Lyannas ghost.

Arya like her aunt is likened to being wild, untamed, and someone recently referred to Winterfell as like a living organism which the Starks were attached to, as well as most things natural.

Sansa is/was in her element actually in KL and the South.

It wasn't until they rejected her that she began to lament over Winterfell and the North, (and I don't say this in a way to desparage Sansa, but to distinquish her from her siblings as both least Stark and least Wolf, especially as she was influenced specifically by Cat, a woman still enthralled with the South and Court).

And it's not that the rest of Cats children are least Stark, but least Wolf, or not as much wolf as Jon and Arya.

In the end, even though Sansa tried to fit in with the Court, when Joffrey died, they told stories about how she "turned into a wolf" and jumped out a window, escaping KL.

I've often speculated that the supernatural happenings had to do with the natural environment pivoting out of harmony and balance, and Jon is the answer to that balance, symbolizing both elements ice and fire and able to communicate with both man and animal.

Arya may be the Mother/goddes/She-wolf who becomes the Mother of a Nation.

Remember the prophesy of Claudius who supposedly caught and saved the wolf pup (which was considered the symbol of Rome), that a bird of prey had snatched up, but dropped into his arms?

He is lame, stuttering, and considered a fool, but was prophesized to be protector of the Republic of Rome.

In Arya I see a similar parallel, wild, untamed, undiciplined and the last one to be considered "Queen-material" is the one who suckles a Nation.

The reason I don't include Sansa in this is because I see her negative experiences as having a profound affect on her in that she may prefer to exist in the shadows, an irony considering that Arya always existed in Sansas shadow, and Martin does love his irony.

And just to clarify, I'm NOT shipping Jon and Arya, just pointing out the different roles they could fulfill, as I see Jon as the great Warrior, the one who clears the path for the King, but who will not be King because his destiny is greater than a throne.

Alia of the knife · November 21, 2012

Good point. I think thats one of the main reasons Ned was always found in the godswood. Perhaps he was praying to the Old Gods for forgiveness for the great lie he told Cat. And perhaps for if he had told her the truth, Cat would feel just as much conflict and pain.

Exactly.

And though thats part of the price Ned has paid to keep his secrets, (Lyannas), it has to be done or else Cat and his entire family could be put to the sword.

Cat has also shown herself to not be trusted in making decisions, (kidnapping Tyrion and releasing Jaimie), so Ned I think had to leave her completely out of the loop.

:bowdown: :bowdown:
ALIA OF THE KNIFE: Another great Dune analogy! I wrote a post to Little Wing about “mind melding” like Bella and Edward do in Breaking Dawn 2, and the way Spock does with the Treble [spelling? those little furry creatures that were such a hit] in Star Trek: I said that I hope that somehow BR, Bran, and Ghost can “take Jon” to those places that will reveal his true parentage, do a sort of "mind meld" so Jon can see through the 1000 eyes and one specific moments of his past: like the tournament where Rhaegar proclaims Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty by giving her the winter roses; like their precious moments together at the Tower of Joy; like Jon Snow’s birth and the promises Lyanna extracts from Ned; like Rhaegar and Robert fighting on the Trident; like a pivotal scene that will show Jon how deeply his parents loved him and yearned for his birth, and like maybe Rhaegar revealing that Jon is the Prince Who Was Promised.
I hope that makes sense. I really loved the video clip :cheers: – it looked like the Prophet was blind? Like Maester Aemon? Or like the Greek prophet Tiresias who could see the truth even without his eyes?

Good call on the parallels.

The "prophet" is actually Letos Father, Paul Maudib, who after his concubine Chani died in childbirth "gave himself to the desert," but in reality tried to undermine the tyranny of his Sister, Alia who was mad.

There are many who speculate that Rhaegar is not dead, but I don't agree with that because Martin pretty much confirmed he was, but it's a good play on that theory.

ARYa_Nym · November 21, 2012

I finally caught up. :grouphug: There are so many wonderful posts in here.

I'm tired so just quick note. Tommen. Arya was paired with him. She called him the little fat one and his hair longer than hers according to Jon.

"All the padding made him look like a turtle on its back."

He looked like a turtle. Later, we'll learn that turtles have a Rhoynar connection.

"Yandry swore the Rhoynar princes used to ride them across the river. He and his wife were Greenblood born, a pair of Dornish orphans come home to Mother Rhoyne."

Info on the Orphans of the Greenblood:

They are the descendants of the Rhoynar who came to Dorne after the Rhoynar Invasion but refused to assimilate and continue to practice the traditions of their ancestors. They live on rafts along the river Greenblood and consider themselves orphaned from their Mother Rhoyne. It's said that when they first came to Dorne they built their smaller boats from the burned carcasses of the ships they used to cross the narrow sea.^[1]
The orphans of the Greenblood pole their boats up and down the river, fishing, picking fruits, and doing whatever work is required. They dance and sing on the river, and are also said to have great knowledge of the healing arts, able to cure warts and produce the best midwives[2

The search engine on the SSM site has not been working for me but I remember 2 SSMs on Queen Nymeria. One of which being that she was a commander rather than a combatant.

Another one says that she was more like Dany or Joan of Arc than Brienne or Xena when asked if the Dornish had an Amazon tradition.

All of these comparative figures could be those who gathers people to their cause and leads them to a new future so that is something to think on in terms of how it can relate to Arya.

I'll try to find things on Nymeria the wolf later.

evita mgfs · November 21, 2012

I finally caught up. :grouphug: There are so many wonderful posts in here.
I'm tired so just quick note. Tommen. Arya was paired with him. She called him the little fat one and his hair longer than hers according to Jon.
He looked like a turtle. Later, we'll learn that turtles have a Rhoynar connection.
Info on the Orphans of the Greenblood:
The search engine on the SSM site has not been working for me but I remember 2 SSMs on Queen Nymeria. One of which being that she was a commander rather than a combatant.
Another one says that she was more like Dany or Joan of Arc than Brienne or Xena when asked if the Dornish had an Amazon tradition.
All of these comparative figures could be those who gathers people to their cause and leads them to a new future so that is something to think on in terms of how it can relate to Arya.
I'll try to find things on Nymeria the wolf later.

ARYA NYM: For being tired you can still make remarkable contributions!

I have often thought to myself of Arya as a Joan of Arc type of character. It is interesting that you found such a correspondence in the SSM. Now I wish I would have had the nerve to ascribe it in the written word. I am still jittery about having my meanings misconstrued - and I thought if I compared the "assassin" to Joan of Arc I might be flamed for blasphemy because St. Joan is canonized. Even though I make these assumptions based upon looking at Biblical personalities as part of "literature", still fear some might take offense. Am I being way too paranoid?

I am happy it is finally out there - and the Martin himself made the connection for his readers. Now I will need to read up on St. Joan for my memory is a bit sketchy, but she was always one of my favorite saints and matyrs, along with St. Bernadette and St. Francis, both of whom I am sure are saints but I am unsure on the martyr status.

I look forward to what you will squirrel out of the Nymeria and Arya connection, for you never cease to amaze me!

Here is a squirrel with a hat just for you! I just love these little buggers. They make me smile: http://ladyevyta.tumblr.com/post/36105644551/nurse-sqirrel

Here is a scary pic from our BD2 premiere: http://ladyevyta.tumblr.com/post/36085272452/scary-fred-the-projectionist-as-evil-volturi [i didn't photo shop the eyes because I thought that made them look more OMINOUS! The enormous golden is my Moses, aka the not-so-scary werewolf!]

evita mgfs · November 21, 2012

Exactly.
And though thats part of the price Ned has paid to keep his secrets, (Lyannas), it has to be done or else Cat and his entire family could be put to the sword.
Cat has also shown herself to not be trusted in making decisions, (kidnapping Tyrion and releasing Jaimie), so Ned I think had to leave her completely out of the loop.
Good call on the parallels.
The "prophet" is actually Letos Father, Paul Maudib, who after his concubine Chani died in childbirth "gave himself to the desert," but in reality tried to undermine the tyranny of his Sister, Alia who was mad.
There are many who speculate that Rhaegar is not dead, but I don't agree with that because Martin pretty much confirmed he was, but it's a good play on that theory.

:bowdown: :bowdown: ALIA OF THE KNIFE: I think people speculate such things because they truly want to see certain scenes played out, like Jon and Rhaegar meeting. But, you see, Martin has set up his work so brilliantly that if he so desires, he can arrange for Jon via Ghost to "experience" meeting his father through the weirnet governed by Jon's own brother Bran. We also know that the CotF can speak to the dead, which must mean that they can see them as well when they hold conference. That is my interpretation, especially because Leaf warns Bran not to call up the dead - well, at least not at the "time", when Bran's longing for his father was at its pique.

I do think once Bran is ready, he will be able to learn through the CotF how they speak with the dead, even though BR tells Bran that his father cannot hear Bran, even if it seems that he can. [i am also thinking of that 'invisible' power that draws Jon back over the bridge in Bran's POV I, where Jon finds Ghost.] I think both Jon and Bran, maybe through their wolves, or maybe Jon through Ghost and Bran through the heart tree, will be able to SHOW him events from his parents' past. And just maybe there will be a very mystical, metaphysical communication between Jon and Rhaegar, just like in your Dune example! I know! Wild speculation and crackpot, but oh so fun to imagine and play out in my own ASoIaF imaginary world! :love:

Alia of the knife · November 21, 2012

:bowdown: :bowdown: ALIA OF THE KNIFE: I think people speculate such things because they truly want to see certain scenes played out, like Jon and Rhaegar meeting. But, you see, Martin has set up his work so brilliantly that if he so desires, he can arrange for Jon via Ghost to "experience" meeting his father through the weirnet governed by Jon's own brother Bran. We also know that the CotF can speak to the dead, which must mean that they can see them as well when they hold conference. That is my interpretation, especially because Leaf warns Bran not to call up the dead - well, at least not at the "time", when Bran's longing for his father was at its pique.
I do think once Bran is ready, he will be able to learn through the CotF how they speak with the dead, even though BR tells Bran that his father cannot hear Bran, even if it seems that he can. [i am also thinking of that 'invisible' power that draws Jon back over the bridge in Bran's POV I, where Jon finds Ghost.] I think both Jon and Bran, maybe through their wolves, or maybe Jon through Ghost and Bran through the heart tree, will be able to SHOW him events from his parents' past. And just maybe there will be a very mystical, metaphysical communication between Jon and Rhaegar, just like in your Dune example! I know! Wild speculation and crackpot, but oh so fun to imagine and play out in my own ASoIaF imaginary world! :love:

I like the parallel between Arya and Joan of Arc, but rather having religious visions, perhaps for her it's a matter of stepping into her Fathers role as a harbinger of Justice, and Ned did teach her not to ask others to do what your not willing to do yourself, or to do the "dirty work."

The Starks did not employ a headsman, but carried out the execution with their own hands after passing sentence.

Dorne:

I don't think the women engage in combat.

While the hereditary laws allow women to inherit, (or at least the Martell women), I don't know, other than Obarra if there are examples of Dornish women engaging in martial pursuits.

And Obarra could be an anomaly like Brienne.

Nymeria was also a foreigner, just as Arya would be to some extent, but if she is able to leverage the forces of Dorne, then that may actually point to either Aegon being real, or they declare for Dany, (though we'll have to see how Doran takes the news of his sons death and Dany refusing him).

Or, it could mean that as Nymeria did, Arya amasses her own army to take back the North, and then help conquer Westeros.

However, it it possible that the North has those traditions given the Mormont women.

When Rickard forbade Lyanna to carry a sword, he may actually have been deviating against his own culture that may have allowed women to do so if they chose because he did not want to alienate Lyannas Southron betrothed.

Also, in a harsher climate more often than not, it takes everyone, not just the men, to sometimes help in matters of defense.

I think we'll see how the gender roles are fleshed out in the North more in his next "Dunk & Egg" Novella, "Shewolves of Winterfell," or "Dangerous Women."

And in "The Winds of Winter," he said we'd see much more of the North this time.

Rhaegar and Jon meeting:

I had thought as well that while Jon is in a coma, or in between, that he will have visions of his parents, but may not know what they mean until he learns the truth about his origins.

Off to get more animal pictures.

Went to a Alpaca farm back in the Summer, so I will see if I can dig them up. :laugh:

Little Wing · November 21, 2012

I agree with everything so far and will try not to reiterate points already made. :)

One thing I'll just add my 2 cents to is likening Arya to horses - she resembles them in her freedom-loving spirit, shown in her not conforming to the septa's "authority" and disobeying a figure she sees as a hypocrite (Myrcella's crooked stitches are okay to the septa) - so, an independent spirit. Also, running. Arya runs everywhere she goes, it seems, but also flees situations she's not comfortable with, similar to horses bolting. Later on, she will also become as graceful as horses, with her water dancing lessons.

On Needle and needlework - it's interesting to see Arya taking something she despises and is not good at, as needlework, and making it her own by adjusting it/transforming it to fit her own needs. We will see later on she will successfully adapt, or rather tailor needlework to her own preferences (sword fighting) not changing for the world, if she doesn't want to, but changing the world to fit her better. This type of reasoning we see as early as her first chapter in her defiance to the septa's bullying in front of the other girls, and in her realizing how life is not fair, like Jon in this and his own chapter, where we see Theon having more privileges than a natural son of Ned Stark (as he is seen).

While on the subject of Jon and Arya, it is interesting to note how strange it is that Arya feels "different" because she has the Stark look. So, we have a Stark having prominent Stark features and feeling weird about it...what's wrong with this picture? Does it allude to the Starks having lost their connection/forgetting "who they are" and yielding to the recent surge of "southron ambitions" in the Stark family? I think so. Another ice/North vs fire/South example? Can they be together without annihilation or someone "losing" their identity? We shall see... maybe another example of the difference in icy vs fiery temperament is how Robb lost his cool in the practice yard while Jon remained as still as the pond in the godswood - an interesting comparison in its own right (foreshadowing his deep connections to the Old Gods and his role in the game of ice and fire) - but Jon was watching, not participating (another foreshadowing of his detachment/not taking part in the game of thrones), so it may be a stretch... Arya on the other hand has the fiery temperament herself, the "wolf blood" so there is a bit of fire in the Starks as well, a bit of an exception to the cold rule... maybe the ones with the "wolf blood" are more apt to confront or merge with the southron/firey folk?

Also, Arya_Nym, can't wait for your post! :grouphug: ^_^

Edit: spelling

evita mgfs · November 21, 2012

JUST A REMINDER WITH TURKEY DAY

AND BLACK FRIDAY ON THE HORIZON

9 AGOT Bran II / TOWER OF THE HAND SUMMARY

http://towerofthehand.com/books/101/009/index.html

10 AGOT Tyrion I / TOWER OF THE HAND SUMMARY

http://towerofthehand.com/books/101/010/index.html

9 AGOT Bran II EVITA / POST NOVEMBER 24

10 AGOT Tyrion I THE PACK SURVIVES / POST NOVEMBER 25

evita mgfs · November 22, 2012

I started searching for more symbolic meanings of wolves on a site about Native American Indians, and I found some neato correspondences to share, but before I get there, the site discussed the aspect of the wolf in Native American Art, signs, beading, embroidery, and TOTEMS.

So, my wheels started to turn, and I realized that the stone direwolves in the crypts of Winterfell fit the descriptions, or characteristics assigned to a totem.

TOTEM [DEFINITION from Encarta Dictionary]:

Important tribal object: an object, animal, plant, or other natural phenomenon revered as a symbol of a clan or society, and often used in rituals among some peoples
Carving: a carving or other representation of a totem
Symbolic thing: something regarded as a symbol, especially something treated with the kind of respect normally reserved for religious icons

The idea of the stone direwolves as a “tribal object”or revered “symbol” of a clan or society fits the rationale that the direwolf sigil represents House Stark, a clan or society, or simply a family with the rich history and ancestry. The nature of the symbolic significance of the direwolves may prove to extend much deeper than we now know, for mayhap the Kings of Winter warged their familiars, or direwolves, as the Stark children have learned to warg their wolves [exception being Sansa, of course].
The direwolves in the crypts are carved in stone – just like representative totems are carved in wood or another medium.
The direwolves are important enough in the Stark ancestry to even merit a carved statue curled at the feet of the stone statues of the past Starks. I propose that these “totems” in the crypts of Winterfell do have a religious association, if their relationship to the old gods can be described as religious. I am optimistic in my prognostications that in future novels, Martin will disclose much and more about the Stark’s long standing connection with their direwolves.

Meaning of the Wolf Symbol

Native American Indians were a deeply spiritual people and they communicated their history, thoughts, ideas and dreams from generation to generation through Symbols and Signs such as the Wolf symbol. Native American symbols are geometric portrayals of celestial bodies, natural phenomena and animal designs. The tracks of an animal, such as a wolf, were used to indicate a direction. http://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/native-american-symbols/wolf-symbol.htm

Ned Stark especially is a deeply spiritual person who makes it a personal mission to communicate his family’s history, thoughts, ideas, and dreams from generation to generation. He makes known that there must always be a Stark in Winterfell and carries on the Stark words of warning: Winter is coming.
The Direwolf of House Stark, much like the symbol of the Native American Wolf, connects the Starks through generations, as represented by the many levels of the crypts and all the stone statues of the Starks with their swords across their laps and their direwolves at their feet.
The concept of the “tracks of a direwolf indicating direction” speaks directly to the direwolves bestowed upon the Stark children through the mystical powers of the old gods; and these most special direwolves serve as “directional guides” for the children of Ned Stark, and we see multiple examples in Martin’s works of the direwolves guiding their charges – or trying to keep them from harm, such as Summer howling when Bran climbs the old keep , and Ghost acting all fired up on Jon’s assassination day, and Grey Wind alerting Robb three times upon arrival at the Frey Red Wedding.

Meaning of the Wolf Symbols

The meaning of the Wolf symbol is to symbolize direction and leadership and the wolf symbol also embodied both protection and destruction. The Wolf symbol signified strength, endurance, Instinct linked with intelligence, family values and believed to give guidance in dreams and meditation. http://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/native-american-symbols/wolf-symbol.htm

The direwolf as a symbol of direction and leadership fits not only the “pets” of the Starks but also their father, who offers his children direction and leadership in his oft-recalled by them words of advice I like to call Neddisms: for instance, Ned tells Bran that a man can still be brave if he is afraid, and Ned says that is the only time a man can be brave.
Ned also lectures his sons on the proper care and training of a direwolf, and impresses upon them the responsibility of pet ownership – he call his children to task and expects them to respond with their best foot forward, and his children demonstrate their love and respect for their father by doing so.
The wolf symbol embodying protection and destruction is evident in the father Ned as alpha wolf fiercely protecting his children from harm, as he does when he tries to get Sansa and Arya out of King’s Landing and safely enroute to Winterfell. But Ned can also represent a destructive force in the WOLF when he executes the Night’s Watch deserter in Bran’s POV I.
We see the WOLVES of House Stark embodying these characteristics:

STRENGTH and ENDURANCE are seen markedly in the night wolf Arya, who survives harrowing experiences to arrive across the Narrow Sea at Braavos. Her torturous journey smacks of “endurance” in both the physical and the mental.
INTELLIGENCE is a trait demonstrated by Jon Snow, the bastard WOLF who rationalizes objectively that five direwolves are the perfect match for the five trueborn Stark children, which initially leaves him out of the “receiving” equation since there is no extra direwolf for the bastard son. But WAIT! Jon’s sacrifice is well-done for her is rewarded by the old gods who send him back over the bridge to find his GHOST.
FAMILY VALUES: The packof direwolves seem innately connected to one another as a pack, as we see evidenced when Summer intercedes on Jon’s behalf to save him, and when Ghost sees Shaggydog on Skagos taking down a unicorn. Likewise, the Stark family share strong family ties, and all the children are deeply affected by the deaths of their parents and their siblings. One exemplary relationship between siblings is that between Arya and Jon, who both share their father’s Northern looks and a sense of humor. Jon gifts Arya that Needle, which has been so symbolic and providential in the story.
DREAMS AND MEDITATIONS: This aspect of Native American Wolf symbology really speaks to the Stark children, many of whom join their wolves in their dreams or when meditating, or daydreaming. These “wolf dreams” seem to be the precursor to full-blown warging.

Many American Indians considered themselves descended from wolves, and thus worshiped the wolf as both a god and an ancestor. According to the Pawnee creation myth, the wolf was the first creature to experience death. Some tribes believed that the timber wolves, howling at the moon, were spiritual beings that could speak to the gods and impart magical powers. http://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/native-american-symbols/wolf-symbol.htm

DESCENDED FROM WOLVES: This is an interesting belief system to ponder in regards to the Starks, and as someone said in another thread, what comes first? The Stark or the Wolf? Many myths, including one that I recall from The Pack Survives post involving wolves that reared human children, similar to the story of Romulus and Remus. I am by no means suggesting this may be true for the Starks, but I certainly do believe that their direwolves who are immortalized at their feet in the crypts of WF hold a far deeper significance than just being a carved ornamentation added as a decorative tribute the Stark House Sigil of the Direwolf.
Moreover, the whole concept of the Greek gods and goddesses and the surrounding mythologies show that the Olympians, among others, were anthropomorphic in their origins – once being an animal that was worshipped, then when the religions underwent changes, the animals became a human form: Hera is associated with the cow and the peacock; Athena’s bird is the owl’ Zeus is the eagle; and so on. Is the idea of the Starks having such a close connectivity with their wolves so far-fetched?
FIRST CREATURE TO EXPERIENCE DEATH: I thought this was interesting, although I can find no way in which it applies to the Starks, but it sort of relates to V6S who experiences his FIRST DEATH when warged in a dog named Flop Tail.
HOWLING AT THE MOON: Direwolves are known to do this – and the Stark direwolves howled at the comet as well!
SPIRITUAL BEINGS THAT COULD SPEAK TO THE GODS AND IMPART MAGICAL POWERS: Here is the big ticket item – for we are going to see something like this happen, I predict, with Ghost via Jon. Martin has already hinted that Ghost can hear Bran through a heart tree, so I see this scenario playing out sometime soon – I hope, anyway. We also have pretty much established that the direwolves were plants courtesy of BR and/or the old gods.

ARYa_Nym · November 22, 2012

Via Rodrik Cassel there's seems to be a lot of mentions of white whiskers in her chapter.

We see her wish to fight like Bran is.

"She watched her little brother whack at Tommen. "I could do just as good as Bran," she said. "He's only seven. I'm nine."

In the water thread I compared Arya to Tybalt from Romeo and Juliet.

Tybalt in Romeo and Juliet is nicknamed "prince [or king] of cats" by Mercutio, whom he eventually kills. Much depends upon interpretation, though; some productions play him as one more victim of the Feuding Families.

http://asoiaf.wester...20#entry3808684

Some of the comparisons pertain to Arya's later chapters.

Tybalt is a captivating, testosterone-driven character and almost always completely over-the-top. He's not particularly deep, but he's a lot of fun for the actor who gets to deliver his snappy one-liners and show off some impressive sword fighting skills. Mercutio, who hates Tybalt, gives him the "catty" nickname the "Prince of Cats" and it totally suits Tybalt. While Romeo can sometimes remind you of a bouncy and overeager puppy, Tybalt tends to stalk around proudly looking for fights. When his uncle Capulet prevents him from beating up Romeo for crashing the Capulet's masked ball, he's not too pleased and promises to bash in Romeo's skull at a later date: "I will withdraw but this intrusion shall / Now seeming sweet, convert to bitt'rest gall" (1.5.6). Clearly, Tybalt, likes to speak in rhymed couplets ("shall" and "gall" rhyme here), which makes him sound kind of ridiculous. Plus, he doesn't speak a single line that can't be delivered in a snarl.
It's also likely that Tybalt just likes to fight, which brings us to our next point. If there's a personification of hate in the play, it's Tybalt.

http://www.shmoop.co...iet/tybalt.html

Tybalt liked to fight.This analysis seems to be saying in the same way that street cats can go looking for fights.

Bran will have a similar thoughts later in the book.

Bran stared resentfully at the sweating boys below. “If I still had my legs, I could beat them all.” He remembered the last time he’d held a sword in his hand…”

I mentioned from the Arya/Bran reread.

Bran liked to observe from above. He would watch the people of WF.

“Bran could perch for hours among the shapeless, rain-worn gargoyles…watching it all…It made him feel like he was lord of the castle, in a way even Robb would never know.”

Arya from below.

“Arya had loved nothing better than to sit at her father’s table and listen to them talk. She loved listening to the men on the benches too; to freeriders tough as leather, courtly knights and bold young squires, grizzled old men-at-arms...Fat Tom used to call her “Arya Underfoot” because he said that was where she always was.”

Watching from below us seems to be something that cats can do.

From Cat on a Hot Tin Roof:

"Maggie compares herself to a cat because like a cat she can survive in tricky circumstances-staying on a hot tin roof for example-and come out of them unscathed. "

Cats can survive in tricky situations. Queen Nymeria did the same.

Queen Nymeria gathered people from different city-states along the river Rhoyne in order to flee from the Valryian empire. In Arya's chapter we will see the royal enemy family that Arya and Nymeria have to flee from- the Lannisters.

The story of Queen Nymeria is one of breaking ties with the past and starting anew. She looked for a new home for her people to go to.

According to Arianne, Queen Nymeria's star burns as bright as any man.

"On the day they wed, Nymeria fired her ships, so her people would understand that there could be no going back. Most were glad to see those flames, for their voyagings had been long and terrible before they came to voyagings had been long and terrible before they came to Dorne, and many and more had been lost to storm, disease, and slavery. There were a few who mourned, however. They did not love this dry red land or its sevenfaced god, so they clung to their old ways, hammered boats together from the hulks of the burned ships, and became the orphans of the Greenblood. The Mother in their songs is not our Mother, but Mother Rhoyne, whose waters nourished them from the dawn of days."

The Rhoynar are a culture of river-faring people who dwelt on the banks of the immense River Rhoyne, in Essos and were forced to flee to Dorne during the war with Valyria.
The Rhoynar lived in city-states along the vast network of the river Rhoyne until 700 years before Aegon's Landing, when the Valyrian Freehold expansion from the east threatened to overtake them. Prince Garin led 250,000 Rhoynar to their deaths trying to defeat them. A warrior-queen named Nymeria united the city-states to flee across the narrow sea to Westeros.
Nymeria married Dornish lord, Mors Martell of Sunspear and helped him consolidate Dorne under his rule. The Rhoynar have lived and intermingled with the Dornish since that time.^[1]Before their flight from their homeland, they taught the Andals how to work iron,^[2]
The Rhoyne is known for its river pirates, who hide on and around the many islands of Dagger Lake.^[3]

The last line says that they taught the Andals how to work iron. Sandor is likened to a bull in this chapter and Arya will meet The Bull/blacksmith.

There's another reference to smithing with Septa Mordane saying that she has the hands of a blacksmith.

Cats and social activity.

Cats, on the other hand, are often invisible during the day, seeming only to appear in the evening, especially if that is when they are fed. Cats will occasionally engage in social activities or play with people, but their interest is limited. Usually, after only a few minutes, cats will abandon the game and wander away.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201002/personality-differences-between-dog-and-cat-owners

In Arya's first chapter she shows a slight interest in female gossip but quickly loses interest in the subject once she learns what is being discussed-Joffrey.

On Nymeria I've talked about Bran saying that Arya named her wolf after some old witch queen. Arya herself may be the witch later on in the series.

Witches were believed to have made a deal with the devil.

The historical Judeo-Christian view of a "witch" was a person who literally makes a Deal with the Devil in exchange for magic powers, often defined as becoming Satan's concubine.

It's been discussed Nymeria had eyes like two coins which parallels to the coins needed to pass the River Styx.

In ancient times some believed that placing a coin in the mouth^[2] of the deceased would help pay the toll for the ferry to help cross the Styx river which would lead one to the entrance of the underworld. If some could not pay the fee it was said that they would never be able to cross the river.

The coin grants passage to the underworld which is believed to be the place where the devil resides or whoever the mythological leader is like say Hades.

I'll bring over what I gathered on Nymeria's hell associations when we get to the parts in following books.

"Nymeria…bounded to her foot as soon as she caught sight of Arya. Arya grinned. The wolf pup loved, her even if no one else did. They went everywhere together, and Nymeria slept in her room, at the foot of her bed. "

:wub: :crying: This part reminded me of the relationship I had with my dog.

I think the wolf pup loved her even if no one else did is important. One of the places she seemed to look for the love she thought was lacking elsewhere was in her pet. The thing about pets if you have a good relationship with yours when you're with them you'll feel that their love is unconditional and unwavering in a way that many humans are not especially as a child.

Arya made a face and hugged the wolfling tight. Nymeria licked her ear, and she giggled.

The few moments in the series that we see Arya affectionate, loving, and laughing seem to be with Nymeria and Jon.

"He messed up her hair again and walked away from her, Ghost moving silently beside him. Nymeria started to follow too, then stopped and came back when she saw that Arya was not coming."

Jon does to Arya what Benjen did to him-ruffle the hair.

I love this line because this seems to be the one wolf in the series where Nymeria follows his lead. Nymeria normally would just follow Arya but we have an instance of her being willing to follow Ghost.

We see emotions from Arya that we don't normally get from her later on.

"Jon grinned, reached over, and messed up her hair. Arya flushed. They had always been close."

While together Arya and Nymeria seemed inseparable. It's only when forced to be apart did they leave each other.

On Needle and needlework - it's interesting to see Arya taking something she despises and is not good at, as needlework, and making it her own by adjusting it/transforming it to fit her own needs. We will see later on she will successfully adapt, or rather tailor needlework to her own preferences (sword fighting) not changing for the world, if she doesn't want to, but changing the world to fit her better. This type of reasoning we see as early as her first chapter in her defiance to the septa's bullying in front of the other girls, and in her realizing how life is not fair, like Jon in this and his own chapter, where we see Theon having more privileges than a natural son of Ned Stark (as he is seen).
Also, Arya_Nym, can't wait for your post! :grouphug: ^_^

Thanks.

Later she will be told that everyone has their different strengths. Arya will later either find what hers is or how to get strength.

The Pack Survives I definitely think that the seamonster that she will wish to see in the following book is a kraken. It's interesting to see that the word comes up in her first chapter.

Sorry, I wasn't able to look up new things on wolves to relate it to Nymeria but I do have some things prepared for when we get to Arya and cats.

Manderly found info a goddess named Numeria though if anyone is interested.

http://asoiaf.wester...80#entry3787154

Little Wing · November 22, 2012

Something I've always loved about cats is that they do what they want to do, no matter how much you protest or "beg" them to do otherwise - for instance, no matter how comfy I make a place for my cats to sleep in the house, they'll find a nook of their own (usually somewhere I really don't want them to be...), or if you call them to come, they may do so, or just sit and look at you with a "not amused" face... it can get frustrating for people, but I like that they have an independent spirit. And my cats are pretty obedient actually, but it's not because I make them do anything, I guess I just get them. I'm especially in tune with one of my cats - I usually know what he wants although he just meows and looks at me the same way every time, and last week I finally succeeded in "making him" come to me, while sitting at my desk, without saying anything, I just looked at him (sounds crazy I know, but since last week he doesn't leave my side in the house and never leaves the desk where I sit) :dunno: I put a spell on him :D

Anyway, Arya's independent spirit and disobedience is really cat-like, guess that's one more reason I like her :wub: Also, while comparing Arya to witches - cats are pretty tied to witches in stories and superstition...especially black cats.

A nice photo to sum up my crazy post from Bell, Book and Candle. :wub:

Little Wing · November 22, 2012

I've already posted about the wolf in Slavic mythology - the wolf was a common ancestor to Slavic people as well. It was both revered and feared. The interesting part I stumbled upon was that Herodotus wrote about Dacians, an Indo-European tribe that probably lived among Slavic tribes, and of their "skin-changing abilities":

Romanian historian of religions Mircea Eliade attempted, in his book From Zalmoxis to Genghis Khan, to give a mythological foundation to an alleged special relation between "Dacians and the wolves":
Dacians might have called themselves "wolves" or "ones the same with wolves", a fact with religious significance
Dacians draw their name from a god or a legendary ancestor who appeared as a wolf
Dacians had taken their name from a group of fugitive immigrants arrived from other regions or from their own young outlaws, who acted similarly to the wolves circling villages and living from looting. As was the case in other societies, those young members of the community went through an initiation, perhaps up to a year, during which they lived as a "wolf".Comparatively, Hittite laws referred to fugitive outlaws as "wolves".
The existence of a ritual that provides one with the ability to turn into a wolf. Such a transformation may be related either with lycanthropy itself, a widespread phenomenon, but attested especially in the Balkans-Carpathian region,or a ritual imitation of the behavior and appearance of the wolf. Such a ritual was presumably a military initiation, potentially reserved to a secret brotherhood of warriors (or Männerbünde).To become formidable warriors they would assimilate behavior of the wolf, wearing wolf skins during the ritual.Traces related to wolves as a cult or as totems were found in this area since the Neolithic period, including the Vinča culture artifacts: wolf statues and fairly rudimentary figurines representing dancers with a wolf mask.The items could indicate warrior initiation rites, or ceremonies in which young people put on their seasonal wolf masks.The element of unity of beliefs about werewolves and lycanthropy consists in the magical-religious experience of mystical solidarity with the wolf by whatever means used to obtain it. But all have one original myth, a primary event.

As for the Vinca culture artifacts mentioned:

Various styles of zoomorphic and anthropomorphic figurines are hallmarks of the culture, as are the Vinča symbols, which some conjecture to be an early form of proto-writing.

An important symbol for them was a serpent/dragon with a wolf's head, Dacian Draco.

Sorry for the info dump, stumbled on it, and just thought I'd share. :)

Alia of the knife · November 22, 2012

"Native Americans have often held timber wolves in the highest esteem in their culture. In truth, they are many times seen as a sacred animal and featured significantly in ancient songs, dances and stories that have been handed down for generations. Their role in Native American life was a given and often revered and welcomed.

Timber wolves played a big part in the ecosystem and delicate balance of the land and the Native Americans recognized that role. Many Native Americans credit the wolves in teaching them about the importance of family and how to hunt and forage for food. In other words, they were credited with the livelihood of the tribe. Other tribes believed that the timber wolves were spiritual beings that could impart magical powers." - On the importance of Timber Wolves.

In Native American tradition, wolves were also credited with balancing nature and the ecosystem, and having a functional family system, which parallels the Starks who seem to be one of the few non-dysfunctional families, which does make me wonder what Lyannas reaction might have been, had everyone lived, if Rhaegar had wanted to marry Jon to Rhaenys, or any other daughter that might be born into the family?

While the two elements of Ice and Fire are destined for one another, there would have been obstacles as well I think. Maybe the Stark role would also have been to bring stability to the Dragons as opposed to enabling the dysfunction as it seems the ambitious, Southron families who at times married their daughters into the Targaryens did, rather than making a stand against such incestous practices.

There are theories that the Targaryens were the only Valaryian family to practice incest, and that may have been why they existed on the perimeter of Valaryian Nobility.

On Cats:

Cats are independent creatures, a quality that I too like.

I've never liked "yes men/women" and hope that people will keep me as grounded as my cats.

They went from being worshipped as gods in ancient Egypt, (the only thing that could keep the undead at bay), to being slaughtered for the devils creatures in the MIddle Ages, but yet, here they are.

Cartoonist, Simon Toefeld really nails it when it comes to Cat behavior and our relationship with them. Not since "Garfield" have I really enjoyed the endearing aspect of existing soley to clean out a litter box.

Simon Toefelds. "Cat Man Do."

evita mgfs · November 22, 2012

I've already posted about the wolf in Slavic mythology - the wolf was a common ancestor to Slavic people as well. It was both revered and feared. The interesting part I stumbled upon was that Herodotus wrote about Dacians, an Indo-European tribe that probably lived among Slavic tribes, and of their "skin-changing abilities":
As for the Vinca culture artifacts mentioned:
An important symbol for them was a serpent/dragon with a wolf's head, Dacian Draco.
Sorry for the info dump, stumbled on it, and just thought I'd share. :)

:bowdown: :bowdown: LITTLE WING: Great, fascinating POST. BTW/ I like getting "information" dumps; I just wish my power of retention was as good as it once was! I looked at the picture of the Dacian Draco - and GUESS WHAT? He is shaped like Falcor, the Luck Dragon from The Neverending Story? With your various mythologies, this one especially, the idea of wolf/dragon combinations does not seem a really crackpot idea anymore. For instance, here's a theory that I like to adapt in my mind, and it keeps changing - but IF Jon wargs Ghost - and learns the truth from Bran and BR - then he returns to his body, either alive or dead, and when he returns, IMO he will be "Jon Stark" because his loyalty is to the Starks, the north, his family. But he will be marked in some way by the Dragon, or the DRAGON that is Jon will be manifested in his direwolf Ghost, and Ghost will be symbolically reborn, maybe with scales and wings just like the Dacian Draco, or Falcor the Luck Dragon.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings, I just had to point out the similarity in the graphic you presented. :dunno:

What do we do Thanksgiving Day? Aside from eat? :cheers: Take pictures of the dogs and post them on Tumblr. Here's Prince and Harley, although they are rather blurry! http://ladyevyta.tumblr.com/post/36298668827/prince-sitting-pretty-harley-showing-his-tongue

evita mgfs · November 22, 2012

"Native Americans have often held timber wolves in the highest esteem in their culture. In truth, they are many times seen as a sacred animal and featured significantly in ancient songs, dances and stories that have been handed down for generations. Their role in Native American life was a given and often revered and welcomed.
Timber wolves played a big part in the ecosystem and delicate balance of the land and the Native Americans recognized that role. Many Native Americans credit the wolves in teaching them about the importance of family and how to hunt and forage for food. In other words, they were credited with the livelihood of the tribe. Other tribes believed that the timber wolves were spiritual beings that could impart magical powers." - On the importance of Timber Wolves.
In Native American tradition, wolves were also credited with balancing nature and the ecosystem, and having a functional family system, which parallels the Starks who seem to be one of the few non-dysfunctional families, which does make me wonder what Lyannas reaction might have been, had everyone lived, if Rhaegar had wanted to marry Jon to Rhaenys, or any other daughter that might be born into the family?
While the two elements of Ice and Fire are destined for one another, there would have been obstacles as well I think. Maybe the Stark role would also have been to bring stability to the Dragons as opposed to enabling the dysfunction as it seems the ambitious, Southron families who at times married their daughters into the Targaryens did, rather than making a stand against such incestous practices.
There are theories that the Targaryens were the only Valaryian family to practice incest, and that may have been why they existed on the perimeter of Valaryian Nobility.
On Cats:
Cats are independent creatures, a quality that I too like.
I've never liked "yes men/women" and hope that people will keep me as grounded as my cats.
They went from being worshipped as gods in ancient Egypt, (the only thing that could keep the undead at bay), to being slaughtered for the devils creatures in the MIddle Ages, but yet, here they are.
Cartoonist, Simon Toefeld really nails it when it comes to Cat behavior and our relationship with them. Not since "Garfield" have I really enjoyed the endearing aspect of existing soley to clean out a litter box.
Simon Toefelds. "Cat Man Do."

ALIA OF THE KNIFE: I was thinking of you when I researched :read: the Native American Wolf symbol. :love: The site I was on was fascinating - and it included actual NA symbols that represent the wolf, which were reproduced on clothing with embroidery and beading - which made me think of the elaborately embroidered garments some of the characters wear in AGoT, like Joffrey's breast design split between the lion of Lannister and the stag of House Baratheon.

There also were separate sections for each tribe and their differing views, plus actual video footage, which was neat. There were lots of visual stimuli, and the photos of the signs reproduced in garments was neat to see. Did you read my entry on the Stark direwolf in the crypts being like the NA totem? I was proud of that connection - I just thought I was brilliant! [Tee-Hee!]. :idea:

BTW/ there was even a section on timberwolves - and I love your analysis about the wolves restoring the balance. :agree: I think it makes good sense. :bowdown:

evita mgfs · November 22, 2012

Via Rodrik Cassel there's seems to be a lot of mentions of white whiskers in her chapter.
We see her wish to fight like Bran is.
In the water thread I compared Arya to Tybalt from Romeo and Juliet.
http://asoiaf.wester...20#entry3808684
Some of the comparisons pertain to Arya's later chapters.
http://www.shmoop.co...iet/tybalt.html
Tybalt liked to fight.This analysis seems to be saying in the same way that street cats can go looking for fights.
Bran will have a similar thoughts later in the book.
I mentioned from the Arya/Bran reread.
Bran liked to observe from above. He would watch the people of WF.
Arya from below.
Watching from below us seems to be something that cats can do.
From Cat on a Hot Tin Roof:
Cats can survive in tricky situations. Queen Nymeria did the same.
Queen Nymeria gathered people from different city-states along the river Rhoyne in order to flee from the Valryian empire. In Arya's chapter we will see the royal enemy family that Arya and Nymeria have to flee from- the Lannisters.
The story of Queen Nymeria is one of breaking ties with the past and starting anew. She looked for a new home for her people to go to.
According to Arianne, Queen Nymeria's star burns as bright as any man.
The last line says that they taught the Andals how to work iron. Sandor is likened to a bull in this chapter and Arya will meet The Bull/blacksmith.
There's another reference to smithing with Septa Mordane saying that she has the hands of a blacksmith.
Cats and social activity.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201002/personality-differences-between-dog-and-cat-owners
In Arya's first chapter she shows a slight interest in female gossip but quickly loses interest in the subject once she learns what is being discussed-Joffrey.
On Nymeria I've talked about Bran saying that Arya named her wolf after some old witch queen. Arya herself may be the witch later on in the series.
Witches were believed to have made a deal with the devil.
It's been discussed Nymeria had eyes like two coins which parallels to the coins needed to pass the River Styx.
The coin grants passage to the underworld which is believed to be the place where the devil resides or whoever the mythological leader is like say Hades.
I'll bring over what I gathered on Nymeria's hell associations when we get to the parts in following books.
:wub: :crying: This part reminded me of the relationship I had with my dog.
I think the wolf pup loved her even if no one else did is important. One of the places she seemed to look for the love she thought was lacking elsewhere was in her pet. The thing about pets if you have a good relationship with yours when you're with them you'll feel that their love is unconditional and unwavering in a way that many humans are not especially as a child.
The few moments in the series that we see Arya affectionate, loving, and laughing seem to be with Nymeria and Jon.
Jon does to Arya what Benjen did to him-ruffle the hair.
I love this line because this seems to be the one wolf in the series where Nymeria follows his lead. Nymeria normally would just follow Arya but we have an instance of her being willing to follow Ghost.
We see emotions from Arya that we don't normally get from her later on.
While together Arya and Nymeria seemed inseparable. It's only when forced to be apart did they leave each other.
Thanks.
Later she will be told that everyone has their different strengths. Arya will later either find what hers is or how to get strength.
The Pack Survives I definitely think that the seamonster that she will wish to see in the following book is a kraken. It's interesting to see that the word comes up in her first chapter.
Sorry, I wasn't able to look up new things on wolves to relate it to Nymeria but I do have some things prepared for when we get to Arya and cats.
Manderly found info a goddess named Numeria though if anyone is interested.
http://asoiaf.wester...80#entry3787154

ARYA NYM: Great Post! :love: I am trying to reconcile the ideas of Nymeria being a hell hound versus an agent of Hades and tthe Greek view of the Underworld. In the Christian view of the afterlife, I believe there is a Heaven, a Hell [fire and brimstone], and a purgatory. In Greek mythology, the dead were judged then assigned to an area in Hades that befit their lives on earth, to some extent: The Elysian Fields is the supposed "paradise" for heroes, although Achilles says he would rather be a slave on earth than king of the damned in the Elysian Fields! :frown5:

The Fields of Asphodel is where the folk who are neither good nor bad reside. Sinners suffered eternal punishment in Tartarus, such as Sisyphus, who has to perpetually roll a heavy boulder up a hill. Once he reaches his destination, the boulder rolls back down and he has to start all over again!

Tantalus craves water and food, but both are placed just out of his reach. Prometheus is bound to rock and an eagle eats out his liver by day, and it grows back over night to start the sequence over again.

Hades is not the judge of the dead - he is like the CEO and spends a lot of his time micro-managing the domains of his realm. Those special souls who are very good have a chance to be reborn and are sent to the isle of the Blessed.

The biggest difference in Hades and Hell is that Hades has no perpetual fire, as we associate with the Chrisian view of hell.

In Greek myth, those shades of sinners are punished in Tartarus, and the punishment fits the crime, so the plights of Sisyphus and Tantalus and Prometneus are based on their major indiscretion in life.

Arya is a guide for the dead under the auspices of Him of Many Faces. It stands to reason that Nymeria will join her somehow in this capacity to thereby fulfill the role of hell hound or a Hound from Hades [like Cerebus].

Again, lots of good ideas. Keep up the awesome contributions! :cheers:

Alia of the knife · November 23, 2012

ALIA OF THE KNIFE: I was thinking of you when I researched :read: the Native American Wolf symbol. :love: The site I was on was fascinating - and it included actual NA symbols that represent the wolf, which were reproduced on clothing with embroidery and beading - which made me think of the elaborately embroidered garments some of the characters wear in AGoT, like Joffrey's breast design split between the lion of Lannister and the stag of House Baratheon.
There also were separate sections for each tribe and their differing views, plus actual video footage, which was neat. There were lots of visual stimuli, and the photos of the signs reproduced in garments was neat to see. Did you read my entry on the Stark direwolf in the crypts being like the NA totem? I was proud of that connection - I just thought I was brilliant! [Tee-Hee!]. :idea:
BTW/ there was even a section on timberwolves - and I love your analysis about the wolves restoring the balance. :agree: I think it makes good sense. :bowdown:

Actually, the totem analysis and the crypts was my favorite parts, and got me thinking......

evita mgfs · November 24, 2012

AGOT Bran II

A SUMMARY IN ONE “SIMPLE” SENTENCE: BRAN FALLS.

TEE-HEE!

A SUMMARY IN A FEW SENTENCES

In Bran’s second POV, we learn more facets to his sweet nature, for he feels left behind by the hunters, he feels in awe of the Kingsguard, he feels excitement about the trip south and about riding a new horse, not his pony; he feels lost when he realizes leaving Winterfell and the people he loves is easier said than done; he feels love and pride for his smart wolfling who finds chasing and fetching a stick “beneath” him. Unfortunately, Bran also feels disobedient for he climbs the old watchtower despite his parents’ warnings and despite his direwolf’s protests. Spying in the window of the abandoned keep, Bran happens upon the Kingslayer and his sister Queen Cersei discussing Ned Stark. [and making love], Bran accidentally reveals himself and is subsequently rescued and then pushed by the golden-maned Lannister who quips, “The things I do for love.”

SUMMARY THROUGH QUOTATIONS FROM THE SOURCE AND COMMENTARY

First sentences in Martin POV’s are usually important: “The hunt left at dawn. The king wanted wild boar at the feast tonight” (76).

That illusive desire to “hunt” that seems innate in men, even my own husband, who loves hunting camp for the alcohol, the socialization, the good food, the tall-talking, and the “hunt”. I suppose it is much the same for the king and his party – they may drink, socialize, eat, tall-talk, and “hunt” – share that bonding experience among friends and family.
I find it ironic that Robert wants “boar” for the feast for a boar will later be his undoing.

“Prince Joffrey rode with his father, so Robb had been allowed to join the hunters as well.

Uncle Benjen, Jory, Theon Greyjoy, Ser Rodrik, and even the queen's funny little brother

had all ridden out with them. It was the last hunt, after all. On the morrow they left for the

South” (76).

Well, that does it! You really know where you rank in the scheme of things if you’re left behind and EVEN the funny little Lannister is allowed to participate in your place!?
This is evidently father/son time as well.

“Bran had been left behind with Jon and the girls and Rickon. But Rickon was only a baby

and the girls were only girls and Jon and his wolf were nowhere to be found. Bran did not

look for him very hard. He thought Jon was angry at him. Jon seemed to be angry at

everyone these days. Bran did not know why” (75)

Bran feels a tad sorry for himself for his companions are the girls and a baby. Jon Snow is worthy of Bran’s companionship, but Jon is nowhere to be found.
Where is Jon? Why does Bran reveal that Jon may be angry at him, although Bran observes that Jon seems angry at everyone.
I speculate that Ned has met with Jon to have the little discussion spoken of at the end of Catelyn POV II. Ned promised to meet with Jon to tell him that he would be joining his Uncle Benjen on the Wall as a recruit for the Night’s Watch.
Sadly, Jon does not display the enthusiasm he feigned for this prospect at the night of the welcoming feast when he drank too much summerwine and begged his uncle to take him to the Wall when he returned.

“He was going with Uncle Ben to the Wall, to join the Night's Watch. That was almost as good as going south with the king. Robb was the one they were leaving behind, not Jon” (75).

Bran reveals his innocence: he does not seem to be aware of the ramifications of Jon Snow leaving WF for the Wall. To him the person most to be pitied is Robb, for he has to remain home and not go on a trip, or adventure, at all.

“His father would be the Hand of the King, and they were going to live in the red

castle at King's Landing, the castle the Dragonlords had built. Old Nan said there

were ghosts there, and dungeons where terrible things had been done, and dragon heads on

the walls. It gave Bran a shiver just to think of it, but he was not afraid.

How could he be afraid? His father would be with him, and the king with all his

knights and sworn swords” (76-77).

Bran romanticizes the journey and King’s Landing, dwelling on the amazing and the terrible, even scaring himself when he recalls Nan’s tales of the ghosts and dragon heads.
Bran shares that as long as his dad is near, as well as the King and his guards, he has no reasons to fear. I find this ironic for Bran has his father at WF and the king and his guards, and neither can protect him from the Lannisters.

“Bran was going to be a knight himself someday, one of the Kingsguard. Old Nan said they were the finest swords in all the realm. There were only seven of them, and they wore white armor and had no wives or children, but lived only to serve the king” (77).

Bran shares his dreams of being a knight in the Kingsguard, a bittersweet reflection for those of us who have read through ADwD and have an idea about the realization, or lack of, of this childhood dream.
Those Kingsguard uniforms, the white armor and white cloaks, so remind me of Daisy Fey and her “white girlhood” in Gatsby. Just like the illusive Daisy, the true honor and integrity that once marked the excellence of the Kingsguard has been poisoned by the act of betrayal, including Jaime Lannister who slew the very king he had sworn to guard until the death.

“Bran knew all the stories. Their names were like music to him. Serwyn of the Mirror Shield. Ser Ryam Redwyne. Prince Aemon the Dragonknight. The twins Ser Erryk and Ser Arryk, who had died on one another's swords hundreds of years ago, when brother fought sister in the war the singers called the Dance of the Dragons. The White Bull, Gerold Hightower. Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. Barristan the Bold” (77).

The names and the stories of the heroic knights are like “music” to Bran’s ears, a reference to the oral tradition of the bard singing the poems of the deeds of heroes.
Bran even reveals a catalogue of sorts of those knights he holds in high esteem.
Bran mentions a specific song the singers called “Dance of the Dragons”, when brother fought sister. I just wonder about the far-reaching significance of this theme: brother against sister. We are observing some of that sibling animosity between Cersei and her brothers Jaime and Tyrion.

“Two of the Kingsguard had come north with King Robert. Bran had watched them with

fascination, never quite daring to speak to them. Ser Boros was a bald man with a jowly

face, and Ser Meryn had droopy eyes and a beard the color of rust. Ser Jaime Lannister

looked more like the knights in the stories, and he was of the Kingsguard too, but Robb

said he had killed the old mad king and shouldn't count anymore. The greatest living

knight was Ser Barristan Selmy, Barristan the Bold, the Lord Commander of the

Kingsguard. Father had promised that they would meet Ser Barristan when they reached

King's Landing, and Bran had been marking the days on his wall, eager to depart, to see a

world he had only dreamed of and begin a life he could scarcely imagine” (77).

Just as Jon thought Jaime Lannister cut a figure that made a king, so does Bran think that Jaime Lannister resembled the heroic, honor-bound knights in Nan’s tales, not the bald and jowly Ser Boros or the droopy eyed Ser Meryn.

Bran especially looks forward to meeting Ser Barristan the Bold, a knight of heroic repute whom Ned promises Bran will meet once they arrive in King’s Landing.
Bran’s hope of seeing a world he had only dreamed of and to begin a life he could scarcely imagine smack of unconscious irony; Bran will not do these things in King’s Landing, but later, through the weirnet he WILL SEE A WORLD HE HAD ONLY DREAMED OF AND BEGIN A LIFE HE COULD SCARCELY IMAGINE.

Ned tells Bran to use this day to say his farewells, but Bran feels “lost” when he sets about this task, realizing to his great sadness that he will indeed miss his pony, the stableboy Hodor, Mikken, and many of the other retainers he has grown up with and come to love while a child at Winterfell. Bran runs from the stables before anyone can spot his tears, and he takes his wolf to the godswood for a game of fetch. Here he also speculates on a name for his wolf by reviewing the names his siblings have named their wolves:

“He was still trying to decide on a name. Robb was calling his Grey Wind, because he ran so

fast. Sansa had named hers Lady, and Arya named hers after some old witch queen in the

songs, and little Rickon called his Shaggydog, which Bran thought was a pretty stupid name

for a direwolf. Jon's wolf, the white one, was Ghost. Bran wished he had thought of that first,

even though his wolf wasn't white. He had tried a hundred names in the last fortnight, but

none of them sounded right” (78).

I think Bran’s observations about the wolf names are endearing, such as Arya’s old witch queen and Rickon’s stupid name Shaggydog, an undignified name for a mighty direwolf.
Bran particularly envies Jon’s name for his Ghost, and he wishes he could be as clever.

“The wolfling was smarter than any of the hounds in his father's kennel and Bran would have sworn he understood every word that was said to him, but he showed very little interest in chasing sticks” (78).

Bran discloses that his wolf is extremely smart, and his wolf even understands what he says, which to Bran is amazing. Unfortunately, Bran’s as-yet-unnamed wolf is too smart to chase and fetch sticks, and Bran soon gets bored and decides to climb.
“Fetch” is a game for “dogs”, it seems. Direwolves need a more inspired form of entertainment because of their advanced intellect and their ability to comprehend what their young masters say and to identify and even project the very emotions their young masters are feeling at a certain moment.

“He raced across the godswood, taking the long way around to avoid the pool where the

heart tree grew. The heart tree had always frightened him; trees ought not have eyes,

Bran thought, or leaves that looked like hands. His wolf came sprinting at his heels. "You

stay here," he told him at the base of the sentinel tree near the armory wall. "Lie down. That's right. Now stay—" (78).

It is ironic that the heart tree frightens Bran considering the later relationship he will have with the weirwood throne. But Bran finds it disconcerting that the tree has eyes and hands, just as if the tree had human-like attributes.
I imagine Bran wants to avoid those omniscient “eyes” for he is feeling a stab of guilt for disobeying his mother’s wishes on his very last day at WF when he

should be saying his good-byes as his father told him to do.

I always thought the “sentinel” tree owns a significant name that intimates

more than just being large and in charge “guards”. Bran, who now climbs a

sentinel to gain access to the rooftops, will become a tree himself and stand

guard over all humanity, or specifically the Starks and their friends and foes.

“The wolf did as he was told. Bran scratched him behind the ears, then turned away, jumped,

grabbed a low branch, and pulled himself up. He was halfway up the tree, moving easily from

limb to limb, when the wolf got to his feet and began to howl”.

Bran looked back down. His wolf fell silent, staring up at him through slitted yellow eyes. A

strange chill went through him. He began to climb again. Once more the wolf howled.

"Quiet," he yelled. "Sit down. Stay. You're worse than Mother." The howling chased him all

the way up the tree, until finally he jumped off onto the armory roof and out of sight (78-79).

Bran’s unnamed direwolf alerts him of danger when Bran is halfway up the sentinel

tree, and then again when he resumes climbing, continuing until Bran is out-of-sight.

A warning “chill” goes through Bran, but he ignores both his wolf’s alarums and his

own instinctive nature.

Although Bran’s remark to his wolf that he is worse than his mother with warnings,

this shows that Bran’s mother and her concern about his climbing and possibly

falling is not far from his mind.

“The rooftops of Winterfell were Bran's second home. His mother often said that Bran could

climb before he could walk. Bran could not remember when he first learned to walk, but he

could not remember when he started to climb either, so he supposed it must be true” (79).

The fact that Bran loves to climb and loves to spend time observing from the rooftops of WF parallels nicely with Bran’s future as a watcher with a 1000 eyes and one.

“To a boy, Winterfell was a grey stone labyrinth of walls and towers and courtyards and

tunnels spreading out in all directions. In the older parts of the castle, the halls slanted up

and down so that you couldn't even be sure what floor you were on. The place had grown

over the centuries like some monstrous stone tree, Maester Luwin told him once, and its

branches were gnarled and thick and twisted, its roots sunk deep into the earth” (79).

Now, I believe this is the third specific time we have had a reference to Winterfell

being a living entity:the crypts breathe; the underground hot pools flow

throughout the castle like the veins that carry blood in humans; and now, Maester

Luwin has referenced Winterfell to a “monstrous old tree” with ‘roots sunk deep into

the earth”.

This observation is important for many, many reasons, but first of all, it

suggests that The Pack Survive’s theory of Winterfell protecting itself against foes, as does the Wall, is on point. We now are being informed that WF itself is like the living, breathing heart tree in the godswood – which means that the

spirits of the Starks are resting in these roots of trees.

The Winterfell as tree had grown over the centuries with each addition to the

crypts as well as with each addition or improvement made to the structure that is WF.

If WF itself corresponds to the heart tree in the godswood, then Bran

symbolically watches from the top most branches of the castle. When Bran is

in the crypts, he dwells in the roots, or base, of the stone tree that is WF.

Soon Bran will be haunted by both “tree” dreams and “wolf” dreams.

“When he got out from under it and scrambled up near the sky, Bran could see all of

Winterfell in a glance. He liked the way it looked, spread out beneath him, only birds

wheeling over his head while all the life of the castle went on below. Bran could perch

for hours among the shapeless, rain-worn gargoyles that brooded over the First Keep,

watching it all: the men drilling with wood and steel in the yard, the cooks tending their

vegetables in the glass garden, restless dogs running back and forth in the kennels, the silence of the godswood, the girls gossiping beside the washing well. It made him feel

like he was lord of the castle, in a way even Robb would never know” (79).

This passage is portentous and contains many glues via word choice alone.
Bran has a mystic communication with nature that speaks to his eventual

discovery of his greenseeing abilities.

Bran is close to the sky and associated with the birds; Martin even uses the

term “PERCH”. This hints at his eventual flying with the ravens in BR’s cave.

The brooding gargoyles stand-in for the “brooding” face of the heart tree

through whose eyes Bran will first learn to see with his 1000 eyes and one.

Martin is heavy handed on the “visual” words: see, glance, looked, watching.
Bran is symbolically already a watcher, invisible on the rooftops for no one loollooks up to see him but he watches all the activity going on in Winterfell

spread before him like a picnic lunch, and each vignette of people going

about their daily chores intimates a similar situation when Bran

observes others through the weirnet while sitting next to BR on his own

throne; moreover, Bran still conjures visions even when he is alone in his

own bed; he does not need the throne or BR to evoke his greenseeing.

Catelyn’s fear that Bran will fall while climbing prompts Bran to promise her he will no longer worry her; however, after a fortnight, the urge in him is great, and he sneaks out a window, but he confesses his transgression the next day. As a result , Ned orders him to stay in the godswood overnight, a punishment of sorts, and while there, Bran is to reflect in the presence of the old gods the error of his ways. Alas, the next morn, they find the not-so-contrite lordling asleep in the topmost limbs of a sentinel tree.

“As angry as he was, his father could not help but laugh. "You're not my son," he told Bran when they fetched him down, "you're a squirrel. So be it. If you must climb, then climb, but try not to let your mother see you" (80).

Bran’s relationship with the sentinel tree and his climbing seem precursors for the fate that awaits him later beyond the Wall.
Ned’s comparison to Bran and a squirrel is significant for Bran will be able to

wear a 100 skins, and maybe one of those skins will be a squirrel, and then

even without his legs, he can, through the squirrel, have one big glorious climb-fest!

In an effort to discourage Bran’s climbing, Old Nan tries to scare Bran with a tale of a boy who climbed too high and was struck by lightning. And after his fall, the crows pecked his eyes out.

[ON’s story is a modified version of Icarus] Bran is not impressed and he observes that the

crows whose company he keeps have never tried to peck out his eyes.

Maester Luwin makes a clay Bran-boy and flings it from the wall so that Bran can see what

will happen to his fragile human body if he falls. But Bran says he is not made of clay and that

he never falls.

I hope Old Nan’s words are not foreshadowing – and that Bran will not disobey any greenseeing rules and “fly” too high – or too close to the ‘sun’ – or, yee

Gads! The FIRE!!!!

Luwin’s clay-boy foreshadows Bran’s fall and broken body.
Bran speaks with over-confidence and unconscious irony, for he does indeed

fall.

Bran is cocky with the guards as well, for he says he always wins for they

cannot climb as well as he does. [Pride cometh before the fall, literally!]

“People never looked up. That was another thing he liked about climbing; it was almost like being invisible.

He liked how it felt too, pulling himself up a wall stone by stone, fingers and toes

digging hard into the small crevices between. He always took off his boots and went

barefoot when he climbed; it made him feel as if he had four hands instead of two. He

liked the deep, sweet ache it left in the muscles afterward. He liked the way the air

tasted way up high, sweet and cold as a winter peach. He liked the birds: the crows in

the broken tower, the tiny little sparrows that nested in cracks between the stones, the ancient owl that slept in

the dusty loft above the old armory. Bran knew them all” (81).

Most of all, he liked going places that no one else could go, and seeing the grey sprawl of

Winterfell in a way that no one else ever saw it. It made the whole castle Bran's secret place”

(81).

Behind the faces of weirwoods, Bran will get his desire of being invisible to

others.

Bran climbing without shoes and on all fours suggests an animal, mayhap even his own four-legged buddy his direwolf.
Bran likes the taste of the air, and he has a mystical link with nature and even hthe birds: crows, sparrows, and even an owl.

BIRDS, ACCORDING TO THE ONLINE DICTIONARY OF SYMBOLOGY:

In most traditions, birds have a predominantly positive connotation.
Said St. Hildegard of Bingen in her Liber de Subtilitatum, "Birds symbolize the power that helps people to speak reflectively and leads them to think out many things in advance before they take action. Just as birds are lifted up into the air by their FEATHERS and can remain wherever they wish, the soul in the body is elevated by thought and spreads its wings everywhere."
They represent the human desire to escape gravity, to reach the level of the angel.
The bird is often the disembodied human soul, free of its physical constrictions.
In Egypt, birds with human heads are dominant characters and they are seen leaving the mouths of the dying.
In FAIRY TALES, those who understand the language of the bird are often able to attain special knowledge, and people are often transformed into birds.
They are thought and imagination, transcendence and divinity, freedom from materialism.
May also stand for the metamorphosis of a lover.
When connected with the TREE, shares something of the Phoenix: the male tree, in which the burning female nests.
Natural enemies with the SERPENT and the tortoise (haste versus slowness).
Flocks of birds may be negative.

Bran details the best route to the broken tower, but when he reaches the gargoyles, Bran hears voices talking about his father. Contorting to get a better view, Bran looks in a window to identify the Queen and her twin brother Jaime.

"You should be the Hand."

"Gods forbid," a man's voice replied lazily. "It's not an honor I'd want. There's far too much

work involved."

Bran hung, listening, suddenly afraid to go on. They might glimpse his feet if he tried to swing by.

"Don't you see the danger this puts us in?" the woman said. "Robert loves the man like a

brother."

"Robert can barely stomach his brothers. Not that I blame him. Stannis would be enough to

give anyone indigestion."

"Don't play the fool. Stannis and Renly are one thing, and Eddard Stark is quite another.

Robert will listen to Stark. Damn them both. I should have insisted that he name you, but I was certain Stark would refuse him."

"We ought to count ourselves fortunate . . . The king might as easily have named one of his

brothers, or even Littlefinger, gods help us. Give me honorable enemies rather than

ambitious ones, and I'll sleep more easily by night."

This last line of Jaime’s brings to mind a line from the Shakespearean tragedy Julius Caesar, where Caesar confides in his friend Marc Antony how he feels about Caius Cassius:

CAESAR

(aside to ANTONY)

Let me have men about me that are fat,

Sleek-headed men and such as sleep a-nights.

Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look.

He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous.

Caesar prefers to have trustworthy men who sleep easily at night around him, not men like Cassius who probably never sleeps for he is always plotting ill-will toward another.
Jamie says he will sleep easier if he has honorable enemies like Eddard Stark as opposed to ambitious ones.
We also see that Jaime does not aspire to rule; rising in power is Cersei’s desire for her brother. Cersei is the ambitious one in regards to ruling the Seven Kingdoms.

"When he had already agreed to foster that weakling son of hers at Casterly Rock? I think not. She knew the boy's life would be hostage to her silence. She may grow bolder now that he's safe atop the Eyrie."

"Mothers." The man made the word sound like a curse. "I think birthing does

something to your minds. You are all mad." He laughed. It was a bitter sound. "Let

Lady Arryn grow as bold as she likes. Whatever she knows, whatever she thinks she

knows, she has no proof." He paused a moment. "Or does she?"

Jaime’s remark about “Mothers” reminds me of Bran scolding his nameless direwolf for nagging him about climbing the way his mother does.

"Do you think the king will require proof?" the woman said. "I tell you, he loves me

not."

"And whose fault is that, sweet sister?"

Bran studied the ledge. He could drop down. It was too narrow to land on, but if he

could catch hold as he fell past, pull himself up . . . except that might make a noise,

draw them to the window. He was not sure what he was hearing, but he knew it was

not meant for his ears.

"You are as blind as Robert," the woman was saying.

"If you mean I see the same thing, yes," the man said. "I see a man who would sooner

die than betray his king."

"He betrayed one already, or have you forgotten?" the woman said. "Oh, I don't deny

he's loyal to Robert, that's obvious. What happens when Robert dies and Joff takes the throne? And the sooner that comes to pass, the safer we'll all be. My husband grows

more restless every day. Having Stark beside him will only make him worse. He's still

in love with the sister, the insipid little dead sixteen-year-old. How long till he decides to put me aside for some new Lyanna?"

Cersei is still jealous and insecure about Robert’s deep-seated affections for

Lyanna, even though she died fifteen years ago.

In Cersei’s skewed logic, she perceives that Ned will be a threat to her in the

role of Hand to the King, for Robert’s deep respect and love for Ned will

encourage him to be influenced by his northern friend.

Cersei describes Lyanna as “insipid” which is the same modifier Jon used to

describe Princess Myrcella when Robb escorts her to the head table during the procession at the feast in honor of King Robert’s arrival.

As he eavesdrops with marked curiosity, at one point he hangs upside down to study the figures inside from outside the window. Then, Bran accidentally makes a noise that causes Cersei to spot Bran, and her horrified reaction jolts Bran, and he nearly falls from above, but he fortuitously grabs the window’s edge with one quick hand. He hangs perilously from the ledge until Jaime orders him, “Take my hand,” which Bran does gratefully. However, not but a few minutes later, Jaime pushes Bran backwards, off the ledge, into the empty air where he falls like a dead weight, the ground racing up to meet his face.

“The man looked over at the woman. "The things I do for love," he said with loathing. He gave Bran a shove.

Screaming, Bran went backward out the window into empty air. There was nothing to grab on to. The courtyard rushed up to meet him. Somewhere off in the distance, a

wolf was howling. Crows circled the broken tower, waiting for corn” (85).

The Kingslayer advances up the murder ladder, this time attempting to

murder, or silence permanently, Lord Eddard Stark’s own son while Lannister

is a guest at Winterfell and under the protection of Lord Stark. (Oh, the irony!)

Jaime does say “The things I do for love” with “loathing”! He does have a small patch of honor after all.
Mourning Bran’s fall are his direwolf howling and the crows circling the tower, as if Bran could still deliver their corn. [Ending with the word “corn” seems

significant since we will soon meet a “corn-loving”, feathered friend who is a

tricksy bird!]

[spoiler Alert]: This was an idea I had about the significance of Jaime losing his hand:

Jaime says to Bran, “Take my hand”. Now if the old gods avenges wrongs, then they literally “take” Jaime’s hand, the very hand he uses to pull Bran up, then to push Bran out the window.
Moreover, in the cases of Jaime and Cersei, they are caught by Bran violating the laws of hospitality by having sexual relations while guests of Lord Eddard Stark of WF; therefore, the old gods do avenge the laws of hospitality.

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