Dimadick Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Around the forums, it's rather easy to find a large and vocal bloc of readers who detest reading Victarion chapters. They call him brutish, simple, and two-dimensional, and look with horror upon his actions in the series.When I read him, I find that these are exactly the qualities that make his chapters great. You see, I lump Victarion-haters in with that inexplicable crowd of people who think that Stephen Colbert is actually a conservative. They skim the surface content, pass judgment, and move on without stopping to examine the actual purpose and depth of the presentation facing them.You see, Victarion chapters are comedy fucking gold.I do find Victarion rather funny, mostly because he reminds me of Groo the Wanderer. See: http://en.wikipedia....oo_the_Wanderer"Groo is an ugly large-nosed buffoon of unsurpassed stupidity who constantly misunderstands his surroundings. Possessed of superlative skills in swordsmanship (the only task at which he's remotely competent) he delights in combat but otherwise is a peaceable and remarkably honest fellow who tries to make his way through life as a mercenary or by working odd jobs. Unfortunately he is also indiscriminate in the use of his battle skills (prone to joyously leaping into any fray before attempting to ascertain the reasons for the fight, or even who is on what side) and incredibly accident-prone, and despite generally good intentions causes mass destruction wherever he goes. Most of his adventures end with him oblivious to the mayhem he has wrought, or fleeing an angry mob."Vic has the wonderful combat skills and lack of critical thought to fit the role. And there is something absurd about his thought process. But he works much better when he is on the scene with more eloquent characters. His monologues get rather tiresome, and his lack of major supporting cast does not help. Besides the Dusky Woman and Moqorro, there are really few well-defined characters there. I hope the trio gets more character development later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime's Wench Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I find his story quite dull, above all things. I think if he was trying to raid Lannisport or Dragaonstone or Dorne or somewhere I actually cared about, I would be engaged in his story. However, he's set sail to find Danaerys - and we all know that GRRM will not make it easy for him to find her, since she's stuck in a wasteland with her dragon. The best that could happen is if he found his way to Meereen, where he became embroiled in events there and found himself in a favourable position for her return. However, even that would require him getting caught up in all that's happening there, which wouldn't be very exciting. The worst that could happen is GRRM draws out his journey further and makes it seem even more futile. I'll be honest, it's a long time since I read Victorian's chapters... but 'futile' is the word that sums them up in my head.Plus, he killed his wife. And he's not the most interesting of villains - not when stacked against the Lannister boys, Roose and Petyr. He came into the series late and I just cannot bring myself to care about his story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhane Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 You make great points here . I will definitely give you the dry humor, GRRM does this with a few different characters (Stannis being the one that sticks out the most to me), and it has always been something I've enjoyed about these books. I think I was just having a problem with the Stephen Colbert analogy, because to me, that character is a walking caricature (although an enjoyable one), and I don't think it' s quite the same kind of thing. So really, I agree with you, and again, I'm not opposed to the idea of anything that might make those chapters more enjoyable.Also, am I alone in thinking that there's a chance Dany will go for Victarion? I mean looking at her history, Drogo, Daario...seems like he might be her type.Sigh, I forgot about Daario.He's just one more head to snick off. But I don't see danys thanking him for that do you? And your right she seems to gravitate to that kind of man. But I don't see her falling in too his arm's do you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhane Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I find his story quite dull, above all things. I think if he was trying to raid Lannisport or Dragaonstone or Dorne or somewhere I actually cared about, I would be engaged in his story. However, he's set sail to find Danaerys - and we all know that GRRM will not make it easy for him to find her, since she's stuck in a wasteland with her dragon. The best that could happen is if he found his way to Meereen, where he became embroiled in events there and found himself in a favourable position for her return. However, even that would require him getting caught up in all that's happening there, which wouldn't be very exciting. The worst that could happen is GRRM draws out his journey further and makes it seem even more futile. I'll be honest, it's a long time since I read Victorian's chapters... but 'futile' is the word that sums them up in my head.Plus, he killed his wife. And he's not the most interesting of villains - not when stacked against the Lannister boys, Roose and Petyr. He came into the series late and I just cannot bring myself to care about his story. Just you wait he's nearing Slavers Bay. And the party is just getting started. :fencing: I can't wait,surely you see clusterfuck that is about to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight errant Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Soooo.... I am I the only one who think people under rate him extremely? For the time he is hardly dumb. From what I've seen he's a competent commander and although isn't good with geography or politics he seems to be doing okay. Also the violence, lots of violence. His chapters are pretty entertaining in my opinion. DANY'S CHAPTERS ARE THE ONES WE SHOULD HATE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight errant Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 So we have to like Victarion cause apparently he's funny? Uh how about no. He, like most of the residents of the Iron Islands, is an arrogant, ruthless, just plain horrible person. I don't like people like that even if they're fictional. That and he's stupid. I like my fictional characters to have brains thank you very much. And he hates people laughing which really got on my nerves. And him telling the woman without a tongue to shut up I guess is kinda funny but not in a haha kind of way. More in a...that's kinda ironic kind of way. But either way I was distracted by the fact that he had just SLAPPED HER IN THE FACE. So I will not stop hating on Victarion. Not that I hate on him much because he's not even worth a thought really.I honestly don't get you people! How can you say all direct, violent, simple joke chapters are boring BUT 3 books worth of Dany walking through a desert and then sitting in a town is interesting. In the first two or so books I actually skipped her chapters and went back to them. So mind numbingly boring, it's like she strives to do nothing and there is no real threat to her anyway because of her glacier thick plot armor. I mean she had a spike of interest with the slaver conquests but she decides to sit with her finger in her ass (Or is that Daario's... :bang: ) doing nothing, she should be dead with the decisions she's made. Better people in this series have died for less *Cough* Robb *cough*. Take her dragons away and she'd be long dead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenerys is my queen Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I honestly don't get you people! How can you say all direct, violent, simple joke chapters are boring BUT 3 books worth of Dany walking through a desert and then sitting in a town is interesting. In the first two or so books I actually skipped her chapters and went back to them. So mind numbingly boring, it's like she strives to do nothing and there is no real threat to her anyway because of her glacier thick plot armor. I mean she had a spike of interest with the slaver conquests but she decides to sit with her finger in her ass (Or is that Daario's... :bang: ) doing nothing, she should be dead with the decisions she's made. Better people in this series have died for less *Cough* Robb *cough*. Take her dragons away and she'd be long dead... Dany is a good person and I can relate to her. I don't think she's boring at all. Victarion isn't a good person at all and I do think he's boring. Everyone just sees things differently. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I honestly don't get you people! How can you say all direct, violent, simple joke chapters are boring BUT 3 books worth of Dany walking through a desert and then sitting in a town is interesting. In the first two or so books I actually skipped her chapters and went back to them. So mind numbingly boring, it's like she strives to do nothing and there is no real threat to her anyway because of her glacier thick plot armor. I mean she had a spike of interest with the slaver conquests but she decides to sit with her finger in her ass (Or is that Daario's... :bang: ) doing nothing, she should be dead with the decisions she's made. Better people in this series have died for less *Cough* Robb *cough*. Take her dragons away and she'd be long dead...Isn't this the time honored debate debate between action movies and romances? It's like Die Hard vs Twilight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Pink Mast Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Totally agree with the original poster, I find each Victarion chapter a breath of fresh air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcelain Steel Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Sigh, I forgot about Daario.He's just one more head to snick off. But I don't see danys thanking him for that do you? And your right she seems to gravitate to that kind of man. But I don't see her falling in too his arm's do you ?Well, I think Daario might be dead before Victarion makes it to Mereen...and it has been hinted- a lot of people think that the part of Dany's vision in the HOTU that says " A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright on his dead face, gray lips smiling sadly." refers to Victarion, and that the part of the prophecy that this comes from is referring to her husbands, or to important men in her life. That being said, I'm not sure I believe this, and I rather hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Soooo.... I am I the only one who think people under rate him extremely? For the time he is hardly dumb. From what I've seen he's a competent commander and although isn't good with geography or politics he seems to be doing okay. Also the violence, lots of violence. His chapters are pretty entertaining in my opinion. DANY'S CHAPTERS ARE THE ONES WE SHOULD HATE!*Ahem* Something about sailing the Dothraki sea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Soooo.... I am I the only one who think people under rate him extremely? For the time he is hardly dumb. From what I've seen he's a competent commander and although isn't good with geography or politics he seems to be doing okay. Martin himself said straight out that Victarion is "dumb as a stump" - http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/6494 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NitzanLeo Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Well, I have to say I never disliked Victarion. I never honestly disliked any character which attributes are stupidity or brutishness. I always loved Sansa, even though (in the beginning of the series at least) she is a little naive and dumb, and somewhat plain until she reaches Littlefinger. And even before Littlefingr, her POVs didn't show us just an average damsel in distress, they showed us a young woman in pain, being abused, but still keeping faith, because if she doesn't, there is only despair. And yes, Victarion chapters are fucking hilarious, too, and ever since the last one, where he is shown features to connect him to Azor Ahai (i.e the smoking, burned wound while being at sea) I can't freaking wait to see him in TWOW. It's going to be epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jem Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Around the forums, it's rather easy to find a large and vocal bloc of readers who detest reading Victarion chapters. They call him brutish, simple, and two-dimensional, and look with horror upon his actions in the series.When I read him, I find that these are exactly the qualities that make his chapters great. You see, I lump Victarion-haters in with that inexplicable crowd of people who think that Stephen Colbert is actually a conservative. They skim the surface content, pass judgment, and move on without stopping to examine the actual purpose and depth of the presentation facing them.You see, Victarion chapters are comedy fucking gold.I actually find it funnier the people who genuinely think that Victarion is an awesome bad-ass cool guy and fail to see that his character is just there for laughs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of Judah Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I enjoyed Vic's chapters in particular the part where that sailor clowned him about the Dothraki sea and then Vic killed him. I got a good laugh out of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight errant Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 *Ahem* Something about sailing the Dothraki sea...How many people know the Dothraki sea though? If someone mentioned a SEA to you, you would think boats. You didn't know what it was until you were told, why would a Westerosi and an Ironborn at that know the Dothraki sea is a grass plain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 How many people know the Dothraki sea though? If someone mentioned a SEA to you, you would think boats. You didn't know what it was until you were told, why would a Westerosi and an Ironborn at that know the Dothraki sea is a grass plain?It doesn't make it any less amusing to be honest. Also, I imagine that Ned and Robert both know what the Dothraki Sea is, and they're not even sailors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight errant Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 It doesn't make it any less amusing to be honest. Also, I imagine that Ned and Robert both know what the Dothraki Sea is, and they're not even sailors...Hardly...No evidence is shown of this and I mean think of all the thousands of people in Westeros, how many of them know about it? No one in Westeros every really mention it as such it cannot be accepted as common knowledge. I like the character because he's simple anyways :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Hardly...No evidence is shown of this and I mean think of all the thousands of people in Westeros, how many of them know about it? No one in Westeros every really mention it as such it cannot be accepted as common knowledge. I like the character because he's simple anyways :PIt can't be accepted as common knowledge but Ned and Robert's conversations about the Dothraki and Dany strongly suggest that they would know what the Dothraki Sea is, as in all likelihood would anyone from a port that traded with Essos.I'm not fan of the 'simple' characters to be honest, with a few minor exceptions. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonsHungry Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Dany is a good person and I can relate to her. I don't think she's boring at all. Victarion isn't a good person at all and I do think he's boring. Everyone just sees things differently. :)Likely Westeros will not share that view of her being "good".I will lay odds Dany will be not viewed as "good" when she invades Westeros with a bunch of raping savages, ruthless sellswords, Ironborn Raiders, child-eating dragons, and eunachs.If Dany is one of the "good guys" then I hate to see what she would be like if she turned 'bad" like Viserys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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