if the dothraki invaded westeros?

[Ingelheim]

Robert believed that the Dothraki would invade Westeros with 100,000 men. Khal Drogo only had 40,000

[Runaway Penguin]

Dothraki hordes would be economic danger to the Free Cities (destroying their lands), that's why cities pay them off (cheaper than army anyway). They are otherwise mostly danger to small tribes and to each other. If they went to invade Westeros without Westerosi support, they'll be meat for Westerosi armies (which atleast in the book seem to have a healthy mix of heavy cavalry and of good infantry - atleast the principal armies).

They basically lack the strength to break disciplined infantry. And major Houses of Westeros field such, not just peasant levies.

[Dukhasinov]

The "Disciplined Soldiers" vs "Disorganized Warriors" argument is disproven by literally centuries of evidence. The troops of Westeros are feudal levies, which is probably the crappiest way of organizing a military that mankind has ever devised. It`s only advantage is that it`s cheap. Feudal levies are only obligated to serve a few months a year without pay, which means they only assemble for campaign. They never really drill together like a professional army. Even the knights only really come together in any great numbers for campaigns and tourneys. They did not TRAIN TOGETHER.

The only troops in Westeros that can really be defined as "Soldiers" are the sell-sword companies. They are professional fighting men that regularly live and drill together. Knights are professional fighting men, but their limited service obligation makes it impractical to gather them together to train as organized cavalry units. The infantry, on the other hand, are not real soldiers, but militia. The books never specifically state how long the feudal lords can keep their men on campaign, so we must default to historical examples.

I`m surprised how little credit everyone gives the Dothraki. I don`t know why everyone thinks the Dothraki don`t use mounted archery. We have almost no details on Dothraki in a pitched battle. In the first book, we are shown the aftermath of Drogo`s attack on the Lhazarene, where they employ little girls to retrieve arrows from the dead. The account of the battle with the Unsullied is different. The Dothraki outnumbered them ridiculously, and thought to mow them down quickly and get on with the plundering. They withdrew because the Khal was killed.

Their biggest obstacle would, of course, be getting to Westeros in the first place. But Khal Drogo seemed to have a sound plan to do it, and they had a powerful ally in Illyrio. Also, keep in mind that they don`t have to make the trip all at once. The Free Cities are not far at all from Westeros, and Drogo could bring a force to establish a beachhead and bring the rest of his forces over time. There is no reason to assume that the Dothraki would have any difficulty surviving in Westeros. They`re nomads, so everything they need for day-to-day life can be carted along with them. We have to assume that they have vast herds of cattle/goats/pigs/yaks/cammels or whatever, in addition to their horses, that give them their day-to-day needs (meat, milk, leather, felt.). All we know for sure about their livestock is that they have many horses and no sheep, because for some reason they think sheep are unclean. Also, most of the belligerent forces in Westeros sustain themselves at least partly through pillage. There is no reason the Dothraki couldn`t do the same. Feeding all of their horses would be a bigger problem than feeding their men. The horses in a steppe nomad army typically outnumber the men by at least 2-1, often more. In Drogo`s horde, that amounts to something like a quarter-million horses. That`s a lot of grass. But steppe armies have overcome this obstacle before. The Avars, huns, and magyars campaigned extemsively in Europe, and the Turks and Mongols operated well in Persia and the Middle East, neither of which are very steppe-like.

[anon76returns]

I don`t know why everyone thinks the Dothraki don`t use mounted archery.

I haven't read through the thread (there are several other similar ones in the forum, e.g. ). But if people here are claiming that mounted archery is not the primary weapon of the Khalasar, then they're not reading the books very carefully. In addition to the passages you cite, the main description of Dothraki military tactics (and specifically their utility against Westerosi forces) comes from Jorah, and he only mentions their archery. The arakh seems to be a weapon of secondary importance for them, at least militarily.

[Corvo Attano]

pretty much what would happen would be that their impending invasion would be discovered easily (Dothraki arent exactly renowned for stealth), and Stannis and Paxter Redwyne would dispatch their fleets and decimate them in an open water battle, and what very little of them actually managed to scrape past their fleets would be mopped up by the Narrow sea lords (Velaryon, Celtigar, etc). I doubt any of them would reach the mainland

[Northbound]

Had Dany and Drogo, invaded with 40k riders before all hell broke out in the Kingdom, this is the scene you would have had the night before the war.

Ned, Tywin, Robert, Stannis and Renly; sitting at a war council table across from Tyrell, Tully, Tarly, Frey, Bolton, Manderly and any other house you can name. Enough said.

[anon76returns]

Dothraki arent exactly renowned for stealth

In fact they had a very stealthy spider as an ally in King's Landing.

[anon76returns]

Had Dany and Drogo, invaded with 40k riders before all hell broke out in the Kingdom, this is the scene you would have had the night before the war.

Ned, Tywin, Robert, Stannis and Renly; sitting at a war council table across from Tyrell, Tully, Tarly, Frey, Bolton, Manderly and any other house you can name. Enough said.

What if Tyrell & their Tarly bannermen decided to support the Targaryen claimant, along with one of the Houses you didn't mention- the Martells?

[DavosSeaworthy]

Besides all the points that we've already discussed as to why they would be useless against a Westerosi army combining knigths, infantry, pikemens, archers, etc.....how about leadership? and tactical knowledge?

We are speaking of the "great & brilliant warriors" who send horde after horde of raiders against an Unsullied phalanx formation in the battle of Qohor.

Who was leading them? Zapp Brannigan?

They heard that the Unsullied had a pre set kill limit.........

[Northbound]

What if Tyrell & their Tarly bannermen decided to support the Targaryen claimant, along with one of the Houses you didn't mention- the Martells?

I doubt the Tyrell House would have. Perhaps Tarly would. I didn't mention Martells, cause I figured it would be a foregone conclusion that they would have sided with Dany. Despite that, I still think it would be no contest. Especially, if they had ample warning and were able to catch Dany and Drogo at sea. Stannis's fleet and if you pull in the Greyjoy's, they would have put the 40k "Screamers" at the bottom of the Narrow Sea.

[DavosSeaworthy]

The Dothraki are at a distinct organizational disadvantage, due to their culture and belief of being led by strength. Senerio time. The Dothraki are engaged in a battle with the Westerlands force led by Tywin, there he is commanding his forces and a stray arrow or loose warrior gets to him and kills him in the midst of battle, the Lannister led forces break and flee at the sight of their dead leige lord. Not likely, some memeber of the Lannisters would rally the troops and take command and press on. The Dothraki however showed in the book that when a Khal dies, they fracture and choose to follow who they see as strong leaders, this could be a number of different factions. Imagine Drogo, a warrior leader who likes to fight from the front, like all great Dothraki Khals, is killed in battle, the chaos created by this fracturing process that would follow would lead the the destruction of the Dothraki, especially with the inceased vulnerablility with them being an invading force, not on the Dothraki Sea where the new factions could flee and regroup. There success depends on Drogo living, and I seriously doubt that he would survive very long. His warrior mentality would have him leading from the front, facing the most dangerous Westrosi knights, plus he is arrogant and unarmoured, making him vulnerable to a plated knight and archers. He isn't going to last very long.

[Dukhasinov]

Drogo definitely had the wherewithal to get his people across the Narrow Sea if given enough time. He had started raiding for slaves to sell for passage by sea when he died, and we know he had great influence in the Free Cities. Ilyrio was already an earstwhile friend to the Targaryan claim, and the Iron Bank definitely has incentive to help Danny, if she pledges to honor the Iron Throne`s debts. Volantis would likely invest ships into the expedition with the promise of a new source of slaves.

If Drogo and Danny invaded before the execution of Ned Stark, I can see Tywin, Mace Tyrrel, Roose Bolton, and Stannis sitting down to a war council to deal with the threat. But by the time Drogo`s force was assembled, and ready to sail, most of Westeros` naval power would already have bludgeoned itself to death at the Blackwater Rush, the Greyjoys would be in rebellion, and all the great houses would be too busy trying to eviscerate each-other to face the Dothraki.

I don`t know why everyone thinks the realm would unite against the threat of the Dothraki. We`ve already seen the reaction of the great lords to the wildling invasion, and it was quite underwhelming.

[sansa's sworn sword]

Step 1: The Dothraki would have to gather ships upon ships upon ships upon ... you get the meaning.

Step 2: Stannis, Paxter Redwyne and Victarion Greyjoy have a nice little contest: "Who sinks the most ships?"

Step 3: The coastal Lords have a contest: "Who gathers more Dothraki heads when they are limping ashore spread over several thousand miles?"

Step 4: The inland Lords would have a contest: "Who cleans out the unorganized, fleeing and pillaging trash in his fiefdom first?"

Step 5: No more Dothraki.

The only danger to Westeros is step 4, and only because a bunch of murpillaping savages causes civilian unrest.

i want see who will win step 2

[Batman]

Horse meat is plentiful enough to see Westeros through the long night.

[Batman]

i want see who will win step 2

The weak ranger, the dopey squid or the grizzly Stag who smacked the down one of them. I know where my money is going.

[Morienthar]

I'd start to worry if it was 40,000 of the unsullied that were coming ot the shores of Westros...

The Dothraki while capable warriors on their own have zero armor and will find arrows and siege eqiupment hard to just shrug off..

[E-Ro]

i want see who will win step 2

Stannis Baratheon and the royal fleet.

[DarkSnow]

pretty much what would happen would be that their impending invasion would be discovered easily (Dothraki arent exactly renowned for stealth), and Stannis and Paxter Redwyne would dispatch their fleets and decimate them in an open water battle, and what very little of them actually managed to scrape past their fleets would be mopped up by the Narrow sea lords (Velaryon, Celtigar, etc). I doubt any of them would reach the mainland

I think this is true. The Westeros royal fleet could destroy them before they land of make a huge dent in their numbers, they have never crossed on water so that many bodies on the ships with only a small number of actual crew members of the ship would be easy pickings in battle.

[anon76returns]

I doubt the Tyrell House would have. Perhaps Tarly would. I didn't mention Martells, cause I figured it would be a foregone conclusion that they would have sided with Dany.

The Tyrell house is nothing if not upwardly mobile, and the Lannister-Baratheon alliance at the beginning of the series has left the Tyrells completely out of the circles of power, without any chance of getting in. If the Tyrells supported the Targaryen-Dothraki invasion, they could potentially be offered the position of Hand, if they supported the Baratheons they would get the status quo. Or did you think that they supported Renly purely because of the love of Loras?

Despite that, I still think it would be no contest. Especially, if they had ample warning and were able to catch Dany and Drogo at sea.

Who's going to give the realm ample warning? The Spider? You do know that he has a vested interest in the Dothraki NOT being caught at sea, don't you?

Stannis's fleet and if you pull in the Greyjoy's, they would have put the 40k "Screamers" at the bottom of the Narrow Sea.

Stannis would be formidable at sea, IF he could find the Dothraki fleet and IF the Tyrells (and hence the Redwynes with their enormous fleet) stayed true to Robert. Neither of those situations are foregone conclusions, however.

As for the Greyjoys, they are looking for any sign of weakness in the kingdom to return to the Old Way. I imagine Robert's entreaties for aid from the Iron fleet would be met much as Robb's were during the war of the five kings.

[Corvo Attano]

In fact they had a very stealthy spider as an ally in King's Landing.

Even Varys couldn't conceal 40,000 barbarian horselords trying to cross the narrow sea