Is Dany actually the ANTAGONIST?

[The Mountain That Flies]

Actually, that is a very good argument why Dany shouldn't get into a position of power. She fucks up.

I completely agree. I feel ike an undertone through the whole series is that the feudal idea of people having power because of who they were born to is a terrible plan, and that Martin is trying dispel a lot of the romantic overtones normally associated with fantasy literature and feudalism. Dany shouldn't be in charge just because her ancestor conquered Westeros, or just because she accidently pooped out some dragons.

Not sure what your getting at?? I never called her a bitch and at the end of my post i said that people will disagree and its not a big deal. BUT since you started it.

Doran DID send a escort. Most of them died on the way when they got attacked by pirates. Also the more people he sends the easier it would be for it to get back to KL. The plan to send Quentyn was a good one in my opinion.

As for her marriage, people would not have been killed in the street if she wouldn't have conquered the damn city. Yes it was for a good cause but she complains about usurpers dogs while she usurps the nobles of Mereen. NOONE wanted Dany in their city. Also she pardons all the people who raped and pillaged her city when she took it. Another thing she hates on usurpers dogs for when she does the same thing.

Dont act like Dany is some noble Queen who is all good. She fucks up more often then not and without her dragons she would have nothing.

Once again i will say i cant wait for the forum battles when these next books come out. God damn WOW is gonna be good

I was making a joke. No, you didn't call her a bitch, and your treatment of her was pretty fair. But this thread had the potential of turning into a Dany hate-fest, and I thought a bit of sarcasm might help stave that off.

Yes, more people in Quentyn's crew would have attracted more attention. But would giving him his own ship, with it being fully crewed, really been that noticble with a civil war raging throughout most of the kingdom, especially with the royal navy non-existent post Blackwater? Doran is unnecessarily subtle with his plans, and while sending Quentyn was worth a shot, giving him his own boat would have made his journey quicker and given him some more impressive backing showing up in Mereen.

As Winter' Knight said, a good majority of the slaves throughout the area were happy to have Dany around. She terribly mis-managed a truce between the ex-slaves and the ex-slavers, but she was initially welcomed to the city by a large section of its population.

And yeah, WoW will be absolutely awesome. Dany may finally grow up, Theon may be redeemed, and the Others may finally get down to business. Can't wait.

[E-Ro]

basically what I said except it happened in her head. sorry, I dont have the book in front of me. Id say it was kinda close

If it happened in her head then what's the problem? She was not outwardly mean to him.

[ab aeterno]

The 80's are out of style for a reason. :P

:o

That's because some of us clearly need to clean their spectacles, :P.

Congrats on 4k posts and may you post another thousand thousand!

Thanks. :D

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Not even close:

She could have told Quentyn her reasoning. He and his companions experienced the situation as Dany making fun of them.

[TheWizard]

my apologizes then. Hard to tell sometimes with text. While i dont like Dany i dont HATE her. I like reading her chapters. She is a interesting character. I just like to root against her

[ab aeterno]

my apologizes then. Hard to tell sometimes with text. While i dont like Dany i dont HATE her. I like reading her chapters. She is a interesting character. I just like to root against her

Which King do you support?

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

QUESTION

If Dany wasn't a POV, what would you see her as?

I believe this is a very good point! That is the main 'problem' in terms of discussing this series, many readers become too involved in the characters POV's and therefore forget to look at the story from the outside. I feel it is a marvelous idea to have POV characters and non POV character because it adds such richness to the story and it goes to show how grey every character can be. Everyone pretty much hates Joffrey, but if he had a POV chapter he would more than likely be viewed differently by certain people. If Cersei didn't have POV chapters she would definitely not have as many fans. It's a fact that POV chapters change the views the readers have on the characters and that point should not be ignored.

In terms of Dany, if she didn't have POV chapters I'm sure many people would view her as a tyrant across the sea that would hopefully be destroyed the moment she landed in Westeros. Thankfully, that is not the case since I don't dislike Dany and I thoroughly enjoy her chapters. Personally, I see her becoming a 'bad guy' before finding herself--and not what everyone whats/thinks her to be, and becoming somewhat of a 'good guy'. Her POV chapters will make this journey understandable and bearable.

But leave it to Stannis on his own to burn starving men for eating dead bodies. A thought he'd himself considered during a desperate siege.

If he didn't burn those men other men would have more than likely started killing other men to eat their bodies. The fact that Stannis thought about eating the dead during a desperate siege means that he knows what his starving men are thinking in his current desperate situation, therefore he needed to show them that he will not tolerate that behavior.

[Scipio Africanus]

Come on, this guy literally traveled around the world for her hand. He's like the hero in every 80s movie. :P

I don't recall Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Chuck Norris, Jean Claude van Damme and Bruce Willis travelling half the world only to get blown off by some chick and then deep fried by an overgrown lizard.

Usually they would blow up half the countryside using more ammo then an American combat unit in Vietnam. If Quentyn had done something like that he'd be a lot more populair around here...at least with me.

Congrats on the post count btw, the rate you're going you'll hit the 5000 mark before new year's eve. ;)

[E-Ro]

Which King do you support?

Hopefully stannis.

Anyway before I forget congrats on your 4k posts. It seems every time I start catching up with you you get a ton more. One day I will pass you!

[-Ghost-]

If it happened in her head then what's the problem? She was not outwardly mean to him.

Shes asking him if he is going to turn into somethin better if she kisses him. Then in her head she agrees that he isnt much to look at. After telling the story and asking that wasnt very nice.

I just had it a little different from memory cause I dont have the book with me.

[ab aeterno]

I don't recall Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Chuck Norris, Jean Claude van Damme and Bruce Willis travelling half the world only to get blown off by some chick and then deep fried by an overgrown lizard.

Usually they would blow up half the countryside using more ammo then an American combat unit in Vietnam. If Quentyn had done something like that he'd be a lot more populair around here...at least with me.

I meant like Karate Kid type movies, the teen movies with the moral and the evil blond kids. :P

Congrats on the post count btw, the rate you're going you'll hit the 5000 mark before new year's eve. ;)

I really hope my Christmas isn't that sad! :P

Having said that, with another Confessions I might make it...

[butterbumps!]

If he didn't burn those men other men would have more than likely started killing other men to eat their bodies. The fact that Stannis thought about eating the dead during a desperate siege means that he knows what his starving men are thinking in his current desperate situation, therefore he needed to show them that he will not tolerate that behavior.

And burning men alive is the only reasonable thing to do, I'm sure.

[E-Ro]

Shes asking him if he is going to turn into somethin better if she kisses him. Then in her head she agrees that he isnt much to look at. After telling the story and asking that wasnt very nice.

I just had it a little different from memory cause I dont have the book with me.

If the prince was offended by that he should grow some thicker skin.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

And burning men alive is the only reasonable thing to do, I'm sure.

Which method of death would you prefer?

Stannis is supposedly following R'hllor. How else was he suppose to kill these men without any opposition from anyone?

ETA: Or maybe he should have imprisoned them, where they would have received food so as not to slowly starve to death. I wonder how many men would prefer imprisonment where meals are provided over fending for themselves.

[TheWizard]

Which King do you support?

TheWizard knows no king but the King in the North whose name is STARK,

On a real note i quit rooting for a king when Robb died. I love Stannis after my re read but i dont think he will be king. So i guess i support Stannis but if Apple Martinis Great Northern Conspiracy ends up being true i will drop my stag banner and fly the direwolf once again. I fucking love how badass Stannis gets sometimes tho

[Scipio Africanus]

If the prince was offended by that he should grow some thicker skin.

The problem for Quentyn is that Doran is kind of expecting Quentyn to turn up with not only dragons but with Dany as well, preferbably married to him.

He's not just asking her out on a date or something. Doran sent him on an impossible mission.

[butterbumps!]

Which method of death would you prefer?

Stannis is supposedly following R'hllor. How else was he suppose to kill these men without any opposition from anyone?

Do you have the same sense of justification for the 163 slavers Dany crucified? While I don't favor capital punishment, my issue with these methods are the fact they are forms of torture: inhumane, cruel, unnecessary. I hold this for both Dany and Stannis.

[Scipio Africanus]

TheWizard knows no king but the King in the North whose name is STARK,

You have just received the GREATJON Umber badass seal of approval.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Do you have the same sense of justification for the 163 slavers Dany crucified?

The situations are not comparable.

While I don't favor capital punishment, my issue with these methods are the fact they are forms of torture: inhumane, cruel, unnecessary. I hold this for both Dany and Stannis.

That's your view, not mine. The method of death for Stannis' chosen religion is fire. The men he condemn to die, die by fire. He isn't running around setting random people on fire to prove a point.

[SerNotAppearingInThisFilm]

Dany is still a character in transition. She is young and immature, and has taken on a role with numerous responsibilites and tremendous pressure. The end of Dance finds her at a real crossroads. Given her family history and her traumatic childhood, it wouldn't be surprising to see her turning to the dark side. GRRM likes grey characters, and Dany starts off pretty innocent. She's got plenty of blood on her hands now, even though her intentions are generally good. It will be interesting to see what lessons she takes away from the Mereen experience. We see her pretty conflicted about her more morally ambiguous policy decisions. Now that she is apparently discovering or deciding who she really is, maybe we'll see her becoming more ruthless, especially now that she's a dragon rider like her conqueror ancestors. If she is the next Aegon the Conqueror, she'll be viewed as a villain by most of Westeros, but not all. The people of the riverlands certainly preffered Aegon to Harren. So her reception in Westeros will probably depend on who is running it and how badly they're doing it when she gets there. I don't think GRRM will ever paint her as a completely good or evil character, it's just not his style.