Is Dany actually the ANTAGONIST?

[ab aeterno]

QUESTION

If Dany wasn't a POV, what would you see her as?

It depends on whose PoV we would see her though. Jorah's? A bloodrider's? Barristan? Or someone in Westeros?

[Ribupr]

It depends on whose PoV we would see her though. Jorah's? A bloodrider's? Barristan? Or someone in Westeros?

No POV's. You just watch the scene. (i forgot which person that is)

[butterbumps!]

QUESTION

If Dany wasn't a POV, what would you see her as?

It's a moot point because she is a POV. That she's a POV automatically aligns her with something of a protagonist role.

Look, there are people in the forum who believe she is entitled to the throne because they don't recognize Robert's Rebellion. So there's some fans who do sympathize deeply with her cause. For some others, it's her personal stance on slavery and the like that makes her compelling.

While I am not a fan of hers, I do think there's something a little unfair in the way it seems that you're trying to objectively prove that she is a bad person. There's other aspects to her character that make her sympathetic in ways that, say, Tywin, is not. She's grey, everyone's grey, it's not a big deal.

[Winter's Knight]

No POV's. You just watch the scene. (i forgot which person that is)

The question is irrelevant-is she written sympathetically, like Harry Potter, so you don't notice her flaws? Would the text draw attention to her flaws constantly a la Crime and Punishment? Is the narrative telling us what to think as in Chronicles of Narnia? Is it a history book narrative?

[E-Ro]

It's gonna get nice and steamy in here, I'm excited.

[SeanF]

QUESTION

If Dany wasn't a POV, what would you see her as?

I couldn't answer that without knowing whose point of view we were seeing her through. So far, we've only seen her through Quentyn's POV (we don't get Barristan's POV until she's left Mereen). And, she's sympathetic through Quentyn's eyes.

OTOH, if we had a Jaime POV chapter where he fell into her hands, and she ordered him to be burned by Drogon, or a Cersei chapter, in which Dany's minions were questioning her sharply, then it would be very different.

[Winter's Knight]

It's gonna get nice and steamy in here, I'm excited.

My, my somebody missed me. :leer:

[Ribupr]

It's a moot point because she is a POV. That she's a POV automatically aligns her with something of a protagonist role.

Look, there are people in the forum who believe she is entitled to the throne because they don't recognize Robert's Rebellion. So there's some fans who do sympathize deeply with her cause. For some others, it's her personal stance on slavery and the like that makes her compelling.

While I am not a fan of hers, I do think there's something a little unfair in the way it seems that you're trying to objectively prove that she is a bad person. There's other aspects to her character that make her sympathetic in ways that, say, Tywin, is not. She's grey, everyone's grey, it's not a big deal.

She is definately-ish sympathetic. But I am also a huge Jon Snow fan, and want him on the iron throne above everyone. I still can say he shouldn't be on it, because it should be Stannis'

So when I re-read her stuff, I think I was objective. Other than fucking Daario. This is just the conclusion I drew. But I could be wrong.

[butterbumps!]

She is definately-ish sympathetic. But I am also a huge Jon Snow fan, and want him on the iron throne above everyone. I still can say he shouldn't be on it, because it should be Stannis'

So when I re-read her stuff, I think I was objective. Other than fucking Daario. This is just the conclusion I drew. But I could be wrong.

Actually, her relationship with Daario wasn't just a floozy affair. In terms of her character development, he gave her the best advice of any advice she had ever been given. Further, he's the one single character in the series who understood Dany for who she truly was and accepted her for this more than even she did at that point.

I am not particularly warm to Dany for my own reasons, but I don't know if trying to call her a bad person as an objective fact of sorts is either accurate or fair is all.

[E-Ro]

Meh, complaining about who a person chooses to be with is rather weak. I really don't think that's a fair criticism.

Goes for both dany and stannis.

[butterbumps!]

Meh, complaining about who a person chooses to be with is rather weak. I really don't think that's a fair criticism.

Goes for both dany and stannis.

Actually, In Dany's case, Daario was trying to get her to realize her own power. He was telling her that she is powerful in her own right, and to remember who she is. He told her to remember her people and to fight for them. In Stannis' case, his power came from Mel. Further, she coerced him to take an identity that wasn't his and tried to change him, really. Daario/ Dany was a significantly more positive and healthy relationship in my mind.

[ab aeterno]

Actually, In Dany's case, Daario was trying to get her to realize her own power. He was telling her that she is powerful in her own right, and to remember who she is. He told her to remember her people and to fight for them. In Stannis' case, his power came from Mel. Further, she coerced him to take an identity that wasn't his and tried to change him, really. Daario/ Dany was a significantly more positive and healthy relationship in my mind.

Mel? Pfft. Stannis chooses to be with Davos. :love:

[David Selig]

The only type of antagonist possible in this kind of multiple POVs (all of which have a different agenda and are often in conflict with each other) story is something like the Others, an alien force intent on destroying the world. Dany can't be the antagonist since she's as much of a protagonist than any other main character. Whether you sympathize more with her, or someone else, is up to the individual choice of the readers.

[E-Ro]

Actually, In Dany's case, Daario was trying to get her to realize her own power. He was telling her that she is powerful in her own right, and to remember who she is. He told her to remember her people and to fight for them. In Stannis' case, his power came from Mel. Further, she coerced him to take an identity that wasn't his and tried to change him, really. Daario/ Dany was a significantly more positive and healthy relationship in my mind.

I don't know bb, Mel has done good things for stannis, and bad true. But still, he enjoys her and I guess she enjoys him too them being together is not hurting anyone or impacting Stan's ability to rule, so I don't see the harm. I also don't think she coerced him per say, I think she really thinks he is aa.

[Ribupr]

Actually, her relationship with Daario wasn't just a floozy affair. In terms of her character development, he gave her the best advice of any advice she had ever been given. Further, he's the one single character in the series who understood Dany for who she truly was and accepted her for this more than even she did at that point.

I am not particularly warm to Dany for my own reasons, but I don't know if trying to call her a bad person as an objective fact of sorts is either accurate or fair is all.

I don't care or think its wrong that she had sex with Daario. All I was saying is that I hate Daario, so I can't be objective about him. But that has nothing to do with my thoughts on Dany

[Samsaptakas]

I don't like Daario either. The point is, that those things (like chaining the dragons) show off character traits uncommon in antagonists and bad persons.

Being a fan or non-fan of a character doesn't say anything about them being faces or heels. I liked Tywin a lot as a villain, still by no means I'd say he was a good guy.

Though i have never seen anyone saying that they like Tywin as a hero or face, but there are other characters, who had done many questionable things, who get cheered like a hero.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

The antagonist as in "big bad evil"? No, probably not. Antagonist as in "enemy of the protagonists" or "danger to society"? Yes, very likely.

Dany isn't a mustache-twirling villain. She has good intentions. But she is very powerful while being mentally unstable and lacks proper education. That's deadly dangerous for the people in reach of her power. Given that that already encompasses the bigger part of Essos and is bound to grow, that's pretty dangerous.

In a way, she resembles the protagonist of this video:

. Through hardly a fault of their own, they have to be stopped asap, lethal if necessary. Because they don't know what they are destroying.

[The Mountain That Flies]

Though i have never seen anyone saying that they like Tywin as a hero or face, but there are other characters, who had done many questionable things, who get cheered like a hero.

I'm assuming you're refereeing to Tyrion (who may be a good guy, but for the first three books fights on Tywin and Cersei's side) and Stannis (who straight up burns and assassinates those don't give him what he wants), and you're absolutely correct. Stannis can easily be seen as an insane religious zealot from other people's POV, and Tyrion could be seen as an evil monkey-demon shcemer.

As for the OP, yes, Dany will be very anatgonistic towards a number of characters we've come to sympathize with. Unless Tyrion counsels her differently, she probably won't be very friendly toward Jaime, the guy who killed her dad, and I can't see her liking Stannis, the guy who drive her into hiding, very much. But that in no way makes her the arch-villain of the series, especially since the Others arriving will probably be a much bigger problem.

[NotSoSilentSister]

I don't know bb, Mel has done good things for stannis, and bad true. But still, he enjoys her and I guess she enjoys him too them being together is not hurting anyone

You mean, apart from the people he allows her to burn alive?

[TheWizard]

I know that at least i will be against her. The way she thinks of "usurpers dogs" with no reality at all. Ignoring stuff people says unless she wants to here it. People love to say "well Quentyn was a d-bag and didnt do a good job" He and his father committed TREASON to send him across the world and bring her back to a safe place where she can begin their conquest with a bonus of 10,000 troops. Not to mention she married some weirdo who was plotting for himself instead. Her affair with her sellsword buddy is actually the only part i dont mind about her.

Of course some people like her and dont agree with me and thats the best part. When Dany finally gets to Westeros and the next Dance of Dragons begins there is gonna be a shit storm on this board of Jon/Aegon/Dany supporters battling it out and i cant wait