The Fallen Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 That is what I meant. He should have left during the night that Robert was dying. With the confusion and the fear around the castle I think he would have been allowed to leave. I don't think she had the power yet or the preparation to stop him. I don't think she could have stopped him even if she knew riding out with a force of about 30 men. If I know Ned, he would not have done that. People ask why Robert and Ned were close? This is it right here. Renly leaves while Robert is on his death-bed and Stannis never bothered to return to King's Landing. But Ned wouldn't abandon a close friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 If I know Ned, he would not have done that. People ask why Robert and Ned were close? This is it right here. Renly leaves while Robert is on his death-bed and Stannis never bothered to return to King's Landing. But Ned wouldn't abandon a close friend.However, sometimes you have to use your common sense and do what is best for your people and what Robert would have wanted. This is why I think he should have told Robert the truth. He should have given Robert the choice of what he wanted to do. There is a chance Robert would even have told Ned to help Joffrey, but more likely to put Edric Storm on the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 This always annoys me, because whilst Ned was a good man, he was not a clever man. What is wrong with taking Joffrey under custody in the night? I would say it was actually not good to let Robert die without telling him the truth. Was blatantly following the same trail as the 'murdered' Jon Aryyn good? Was putting his trust in LF a man, his brother had almost killed being a good man?That being said he was also very unlucky. Robert dying the when he did, sending so many good men after the Mountain, Sansa's betrayal. Having principles doesn't mean he's not clever. He wasn't oblivious to everything that was going on around him. But until Robert died, Ned had the backing of the crown. So he didn't need to scheme or try to outwit anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 However, sometimes you have to use your common sense and do what is best for your people and what Robert would have wanted. This is why I think he should have told Robert the truth. He should have given Robert the choice of what he wanted to do. There is a chance Robert would even have told Ned to help Joffrey, but more likely to put Edric Storm on the throne. We agree that he should have told Robert the truth before he died. Robert may have officially denounced Cersei and the kids. And with Barristan, Varys and Renly in the room there were more than enough witnesses to back Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagnusPrime Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 This always annoys me, because whilst Ned was a good man, he was not a clever man. What is wrong with taking Joffrey under custody in the night? I would say it was actually not good to let Robert die without telling him the truth. Was blatantly following the same trail as the 'murdered' Jon Aryyn good? Was putting his trust in LF a man, his brother had almost killed being a good man?That being said he was also very unlucky. Robert dying the when he did, sending so many good men after the Mountain, Sansa's betrayal.It was that in his mind it mirrored too closely to what happened to Rhaegar's children and he did not want to cause undue terror to the children cause rest assured there probably would have been a battle to get those kids under lock and key. Ned had title and position to be able to order anyone around but you know that Lannister men only answer to Lannisters. Even as Hand they would have questioned arriving with his own contingent of guards to get the children. Personally I wish Ned had sent the girls away and held the royal children in custody before telling Cersie what he knew. but that is not the story GRRM wanted to tell. although Ned lending out his own guard willy nilly instead of recruiting others to chase the Mountain was only going to weaken him in the Red Keep. and we know what happened because they did not have enough guards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turin Turambar Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 When he told Cersei he knew about the twincest. His fate was sealed then.this. incredibly unwise. the point of no return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplehazee Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 The last out he passed on was saying no to Renly.This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 It was that in his mind it mirrored too closely to what happened to Rhaegar's children and he did not want to cause undue terror to the children cause rest assured there probably would have been a battle to get those kids under lock and key. Ned had title and position to be able to order anyone around but you know that Lannister men only answer to Lannisters. Even as Hand they would have questioned arriving with his own contingent of guards to get the children.The biggest difference is that Tywin ordered his men to kill Rhaegar's children. Ned would be promising to execute any man that harmed Cersei's. There would have been a battle, but there was probably going to be one anyway the next day when he tried to do the same thing. A battle was inevitable, but fewer lives would have been lost had he listened to Renly.Personally I wish Ned had sent the girls away and held the royal children in custody before telling Cersie what he knew. but that is not the story GRRM wanted to tell. although Ned lending out his own guard willy nilly instead of recruiting others to chase the Mountain was only going to weaken him in the Red Keep. and we know what happened because they did not have enough guards.As I have said Ned had options, but a mixture of poor decisions and bad luck screwed him over. This more than being a good man is why he lost his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 this. incredibly unwise. the point of no return.It was unwise, but not really that important. The odds were still strongly in his favour even then . Even a drunk Robert might have been able to kill the boar without any serious injury and then what would Cersei do when Robert came back. Though I agree it was not a wise decision, since he should have believed Cersei to be far more powerful and far more calculating than we know she was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 ` Yes. So much is made out of Ned telling Cersei, "I know your secret and I will tell Robert when he returns. I suggest you take the kids and run." Cersei already knew that Ned would tell Robert, hence why she had Robert killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Many people will say the fact he told Cersei, but I would prefer to say it's the fact that he did not have her arrested the moment he knew it himself. Or gone with 50 armed men to the King, to immediately protect Robert. One word to Barristan about what Varys told him earlier might have also kept Robert alive and thus him.Truthfully, there were lots of things he could have done differently.As soon as Cat came to the capital, he should have sent the girls straight home with her, with some excuse for Robert. Or if he did not wish to make an excuse, the truth (to Robert's ears only). He should have summoned Stannis to King's Landing with his men and ships, as soon as matters with the Lannisters turned ugly / as soon as he arrived. Summoned as in ordered, not asked.He should have heeded the warning Arya gave him.He should have sent Gendry to Winterfell.But if I were to pick one thing alone, it would be not arresting Cersei for trial when revealing that he knew about her adultery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First of My Name Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 When Ser Ilyn Payne swung Ice and separated his head from his body, I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 ` Having Cersei arrested would have been tough. Especially coming on the heels of Tyrion's arrest by Cat. I think that Ned's decision to await Robert's return and lay the truth in his lap was sound. It would have been the realm vs the Lannisters.When Ser Ilyn Payne swung Ice and separated his head from his body, I suspect. That wasn't Ned's action though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Of the three ways in which his final plan to unseat Joffrey ran into trouble, Littlefinger's betrayal was the one that, as far as I can see, made the difference.Telling Cersei what he planned to do was stupid, but if he'd gotten the Goldcloaks on his side she wouldn't have been able to do anything about it. Sansa's telling Cersei could not, as far as I can see, have altered anything that happened to Ned, though it may have prevented the household from getting away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilrob6 Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 When Ser Ilyn Payne swung Ice and separated his head from his body, I suspect.yes, that was my thought as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WardenOfTheNerds Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 The day he rode out of Winterfell it was pretty much over for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladymorghulis Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 When he killed lady ( sansa's wolf) he got cursed :) just like rob cursed himself killing a Karstark and im afraid tyrion (if hes a Lannister) is cursed too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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