Why is Euron's capacity for evil underestimated?

[ServantOnIce]

Euron has done very little other than the usual ironborn stuff

Very true, that is why I don't see him as really, "evil." The Iron Born are a reaving culture they go for theirs. As Dagmar told Theon on TV, "They do as they are told, but do as they want mostly." The Iron Born are Reavers . . they take and take and take . . . even from each other.

Euron has raided, and he hired a Faceless Man to kill his brother . . . . so he cold take the Seastone Chair for himself. Euron now wants to rule all of Westeros, just like The Blackfyre pretenders, The Lannisters, Stannis and Queen Dany.

He's another Crow for the Feast of the corpse of Westeros!

[kingofashes]

Aeron, and Vic's wife

Euron fucked her or raped her I can't remember which. Victorian beat her to death for the crime of being raped or because she fucked someone else. Imo Vic was, if it was sex, just as bad as Euron but if it was rape, then he was far worse that Euron.

Imagine killing your wife because she was raped?

edit: changed the "imo vic was..." comment around

[ARYa_Nym]

I find Ramsay to be the absolute worst.

Who would I least likely want to be around and/or killed by? Ramsay.

He also either engages in behavior that I find unacceptable or is associated with it/with someone who did. It's not just that he kills and hunts but the necrophilia and possible beastiality takes it to an extremely unacceptable level.

As for Euron it's easy to miss I guess. I had to go back and read it because he showed up in POVs that I don't care about.

I think he's sadistic. Like with the lord. He couldn't just kill the man. He had to degrade his daughters and wife too. The same with Victarion's wife. She came to me wet and willing. Even if he actually raped her he takes pleasure in humiliating his victim not just defeating or killing them. Marrying Asha to an old man IIRC.

There's the kill them all and spread their women with my seed on top of the other things mention.

With that being said I find him somewhat intriguing especially compared to Victarion and Damphair who don't interest me.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

But none of them is as bad as the sociopath capable of causing widespread harm.

Misguided idealists with global power do certainly more damage than petty sadists with only local power; put petty sadists can attain global power as well, if they are elegant and sublte enough about their pettiness not to be taken out to soon in their ascension to power.

I agree, that's why I said I found Euron to be more formidable as a villain than Ramsay or Gregor.

[RedBean]

I do think he's just as evil as Ramsay and Gregor and the other evil people that have been mentioned in this thread. I think the reason he gets passed over is because he's one of the Ironborn, and they tend to be passed over in general. We know Euron has plans to take over the land, and we know he's a terrible person (both by his admissions and by people who know him) but his cruelties so far have only been against the Ironborn (who most people don't care about), random countries outside of Westeros (who we don't know or care about) and against some random Tyrell bannermen (who we mostly don't care about either, though that scene where that lord's wife and daughters were forced to serve the Ironborn naked and being raped was very disturbing). Right now, he's just a "cool" evil villain with an eyepatch. Later on, as he starts becoming part of the bigger picture we're more focused on, maybe he'll factor more into people's heads as a bad guy.

[The Storm Queen]

I find Ramsay to be the absolute worst.

Who would I least likely want to be around and/or killed by? Ramsay.

He also either engages in behavior that I find unacceptable or is associated with it/with someone who did. It's not just that he kills and hunts but the necrophilia and possible beastiality takes it to an extremely unacceptable level.

As for Euron it's easy to miss I guess. I had to go back and read it because he showed up in POVs that I don't care about.

I think he's sadistic. Like with the lord. He couldn't just kill the man. He had to degrade his daughters and wife too. The same with Victarion's wife. She came to me wet and willing. Even if he actually raped her he takes pleasure in humiliating his victim not just defeating or killing them. Marrying Asha to an old man IIRC.

There's the kill them all and spread their women with my seed on top of the other things mention.

With that being said I find him somewhat intriguing especially compared to Victarion and Damphair who don't interest me.

This scene was the worst and made my hate for him reach worrying heights. One of the lord´s daughters was only eight years old. Even Vic had reservations about that which says a lot.

[The Storm Queen]

But frankly, for me the main difference between Ramsay/Gregor and LF/Roose is that the latter seem to have a better grasp of what they can get away with, without attracting too much opposition, when that can be avoided. Euron seems to be more in the class of Ramsay and Gregor in that regard, not caring about the enemies he makes with his blatant abuses of his power. To those who'd argue that his antics are in line with general Ironborn awfulness, I'd like to point out that even Victarion, who's certainly nobody's idea of a humanitarian, feels somewhat icky about Euron's transgressions at the Shield Islands.

Regarding the criterion "awareness of what you can get away with", I'd rank them with Ramsay clearly at the bottom, followed by Gregor, Euron and Roose tied for second place and certainly LF at the top.

Yes, this also was in my head when I said that LF and Roose were people I thought one could reasonably negotiate with under certain circumstances. I also assumed that Gregor and Ramsay were lucky to have benevolent patrons (or fathers) who offered a certain amount of protection to them and their evil ways. Otherwise they would have been killed far earlier by someone feeling threatened by them, or someone who has been directly/indirectly harmed.

I like how Martin describes how Euron and LF make enemies, with the former being more open, but even LF as a rather good player is currently mentoring the one person who has the best reason to destroy him completly.

[Where Boars Glow]

Actually IMHO the consensus is that Littlefinger is the most evil, or causes the most suffering to the most people. As a nasty individual Euron is right up there, at least on a level with Gregor. Ramsay's rotten but pretty limited in scope compared to the others.

Consesus with who?

[LeoSuperstar]

Yeah, I was also unaware of that "consensus".

[Light a wight tonight]

Consesus with who?

I should have worded it differently. Widely-held opinion is a better description. Consensus at Westeros.org seldom happens.

One thing Euron has going that LF lacks right now is room to maneuver, with LF cooped up in the Vale. He's as vicious as Ramsay while being smarter and goal-oriented.

Nobody's said much about Varys. Isn't he considered much of a villain?

[Where Boars Glow]

I should have worded it differently. Widely-held opinion is a better description. Consensus at Westeros.org seldom happens.

One thing Euron has going that LF lacks right now is room to maneuver, with LF cooped up in the Vale. He's as vicious as Ramsay while being smarter and goal-oriented.

Nobody's said much about Varys. Isn't he considered much of a villain?

Littlefinger is a capitalist and an inspiration to the common man. So he screwed over a few high lords to carve out a piece of the Westerosi dream for himself. Where is the villany in this ?

[Lost Umber]

Euron hasn't had a screen time against a major or favourite character yet.

When he gets to Oldtown and starts terrorizing Sam, then he'll be up there with Ramsey and Gregor.

[mankytoes]

Euron fucked her or raped her I can't remember which. Victorian beat her to death for the crime of being raped or because she fucked someone else. Imo Vic was, if it was sex, just as bad as Euron but if it was rape, then he was far worse that Euron.

Imagine killing your wife because she was raped?

edit: changed the "imo vic was..." comment around

Wait, murdering your wife for adultery is equal in your eyes to sleeping with your husbands brother? Remind me not to fuck with your family (literally...)!

As you say though, it's funny that people seem to blame Euron more than Victorian for Vic's wife's death. I think that's the effect of the POV's- if we'd had Euron's POV saying how Victorian was a brutal soldier and loved killing people, even murdering his own wife just because he had a bit of hanky panky with her, we'd be much more on his side.

There also seems to be some double standards with how much we accept Ironborn customs. If we say "that's just their culture", Euron is actually a great Ironborn- pillaging is seen as holy, so he's one of the greatest Ironmen ever. Outside of that, I believe Damphair hates him because he slaves, which is terrible in Ironborn culture? That clearly has no real moral substance, thralls are slaves in all but name. Outside of that we have (probable) kin slaying, which is relatively a bigger deal in Westeros than on earth. Is killing your brother really worse than murdering some poor innocent fishermen and taking their boat, as Vic loves doing?

From the writing, I'm assuming Euron is really evil, but I don't think we've seen or heard why yet. Clearly not in Ramsey's league as of yet, I mean could Ramsey possibly be any more evil?

[Damar]

As others have said, the Ironborn are evil dicks as a rule, so Euron doesn't stand out much.

Plus he reminds me of Darkstar, more of a poser-smug git than an actual threat. Especially since he is now attacking Oldtown and the Tyrells despite having sent away most of the Ironborn strength, and relying on his brother whom's wife he seduced and had forced to be killed, bringing back Dany and her dragons.

[Scipio Africanus]

Plus he reminds me of Darkstar,

Unlike Dorkstar, Euron has already prove to be quite capable of evil acts, such as Aeron's creaking door dream, or Big Vic pummeling his wife for sleeping with Euron, to Euron's first act as king to sack the Shield Islands and raid along the Reach's coast.

Dorkstar maimed a little girl he was trying to kill but failed, and had one or two lame lines and that was it.

[locke and key]

Firstly, I think that lots of people do think eurons evil capacity is large because of what he did to victarions wife

but possibly other people don't think of him beiing particularly evil because we mainly experience him through two povs: Damphair, who most people (me included) and victarion who is obviously biased because of his wife.

personally, He's one of my favourite characters :drunk:

[NotSoSilentSister]

Outside of that, I believe Damphair hates him because he slaves, which is terrible in Ironborn culture? That clearly has no real moral substance, thralls are slaves in all but name.

I can see your point about the hypocrisy (Martin really drives it home, in the Victarion chapters), but thralls do have a bit more social mobility. They cannot be sold and their children can be free if they are devoted to the drowned God. Some even make it to minor nobility, see House Codd, descended from thralls and salt wives. They may not enjoy the best reputation, but still that's pretty impressive for quasi-slaves.

[The Drunkard]

Littlefinger is a capitalist and an inspiration to the common man. So he screwed over a few high lords to carve out a piece of the Westerosi dream for himself. Where is the villany in this ?

Somewhere out there right now, is an angry pink sphere.

[Where Boars Glow]

Somewhere out there right now, is an angry pink sphere.

Pink like a Commie :)

[Damar]

Unlike Dorkstar, Euron has already prove to be quite capable of evil acts, such as Aeron's creaking door dream, or Big Vic pummeling his wife for sleeping with Euron, to Euron's first act as king to sack the Shield Islands and raid along the Reach's coast.

Dorkstar maimed a little girl he was trying to kill but failed, and had one or two lame lines and that was it.

Molesting a kid brother and seducing your older's wife seems rather petty compaired to the things Gregor, Ramsay or even Littlefinger have done directly. Plus he didn't lead the attack, and gets most of his support by bribing, assassinating or intimidating people who might stand against him.