Invitation to the Set Video

[Abaddon]

His poisoning of Cersei in ACoK was the first moment where I began to realise that Tyrion was not just a good person on the wrong side as I had been led to believe by his constant self-pity and self-justification, as well as the white-washing of the show.

Now you're mixing your mediums. Are we talking about the book or the show? His poisoning of Cersei (which was intended to incapacitate her and is well-deserved on the bargin) hardly makes him a bad guy. His "almost raping" of Sansa: we haven't gotten there yet. I don't think we're going to see anything like that, however, for a lot of good reasons.

I really doubt they'll keep his "fall into dispair" exactly how it was in the book.

"Exactly" how it was in the book? Nobody said that. Of course they aren't doing that.

They'll probably just make him bitter but still remove a lot of his darker actions (turning the singer into stew, almost raping Sansa, and probably even killing Shae).

As I said before (I guess we are dispensing with spoiler quotes?) I believe they will have him kill Shae. The other stuff: probably not. I'm not sure it's really necessary, as long as they keep the big finale. That one IS important and if they don't keep it, I will be very disappointed.

[Crown]

Yeah, they definitely need to make his character darker. But I guess they need someone for the audience to root for. One of the problems of making a TV show, sadly.

Why do we need a morally white person to root for? Nowadays most TV shows have an antihero as protagonist.

[protar]

My thoughts are that this whitewashing of Tyrion is so that his descent into darkness will be made more shocking, but wont need to be quite as bad as it was in the books.

I think his wedding with Sansa will play out pretty much as it did in the books. I thought that both sides were portrayed sympathetically there, but that's just me. I do think they'll change Tyrion admitting to being attracted to Sansa though which was a bit creepy.

[King Tommen]

Yeah, maybe I need to re-read that part of ASoS but the Tyrion/Sansa marriage appeared to me as a crappy situation for both characters that they made the most of. In fact, out of the two, I think Tyrion came off as most sympathetic as Sansa (although she's certainly not expected to be happy with marrying a Lannister) refuses to acknowledge that Tyrion is very empathetic to her situation and sensitive to her plight.

I don't think fans have anything to worry about when it comes to what will happen with Tyrion and Shae. They've changed the motivations on the show and the relationship at the moment is far more emotional and less of a business transaction as it was in the books. This will lead to a more dramatic, Shakespearean arc between the two with the main reason behind Shae's betrayal and Tyrion's murder of her being based on jealousy and heartbroken bitterness. That's probably why they will be prolonging the lead-up to the Tyrion-Sansa wedding because I'm assuming they're going to be digging a lot into how this impacts the Tyrion-Shae relationship. It's been set up already in the S2 finale with her insisting that the two of them could flee the capital so they could live happily ever after away from Tyrion's fear and duty to his family. He's going to make the choice this season to remain loyal to his father's wishes and still pursue some vestige of power in Westeros which will absolutely devastate Shae and lead to her eventual betrayal (Sansa being involved isn't going to help either based on the relationship that she and Shae have built up on the show).

[Pinkie Baelish]

Why do we need a morally white person to root for? Nowadays most TV shows have an antihero as protagonist.

I would say that TV Tyrion is an anti-hero. Ned was a morally white person, but Tyrion is much more Machiavellian and does seem to have a greater capacity for cruelty.

Another reason, I'm guessing that Tyrion is whitewashed is because the viewers need someone to root for, apart from Sansa in KL to keep them invested in the King's Landing storylines. Essos has Daenerys, The Wall has Jon, Harrenhal has Arya, Winterfell has Bran, and so on. And since many people would still be a bit resentful towards Sansa based on the events of the first season, it makes sense for them to focus on Tyrion. Also, if Tyrion is likable, it makes it harder for the audience to decide who to root for in the Battle of the Blackwater.

The bleak and often depressing subject matter is another reason why it's necessary for the audiences to have someone to root for. Keep in mind, that because it's a TV show, the producers also need to consider ratings here. Ratings would definitely dip if everyone was as bad as they are in the books.

[protar]

I would say that TV Tyrion is an anti-hero. Ned was a morally white person, but Tyrion is much more Machiavellian and does seem to have a greater capacity for cruelty.

Another reason, I'm guessing that Tyrion is whitewashed is because the viewers need someone to root for, apart from Sansa in KL to keep them invested in the King's Landing storylines. Essos has Daenerys, The Wall has Jon, Harrenhal has Arya, Winterfell has Bran, and so on. And since many people would still be a bit resentful towards Sansa based on the events of the first season, it makes sense for them to focus on Tyrion. Also, if Tyrion is likable, it makes it harder for the audience to decide who to root for in the Battle of the Blackwater.

The bleak and often depressing subject matter is another reason why it's necessary for the audiences to have someone to root for. Keep in mind, that because it's a TV show, the producers also need to consider ratings here. Ratings would definitely dip if everyone was as bad as they are in the books.

I don't think this is true. Walter White, Tony Soprano, Frank Underwood: Anti-heroes are all the rage these day. I think that TV producers have to realise that audiences aren't stupid and can handle morally grey protagonists. I mean what are they going to do once Tyrion goes off the deep end in S5?

[Kittykatknits]

Yeah, maybe I need to re-read that part of ASoS but the Tyrion/Sansa marriage appeared to me as a crappy situation for both characters that they made the most of. In fact, out of the two, I think Tyrion came off as most sympathetic as Sansa (although she's certainly not expected to be happy with marrying a Lannister) refuses to acknowledge that Tyrion is very empathetic to her situation and sensitive to her plight. I don't think fans have anything to worry about when it comes to what will happen with Tyrion and Shae. They've changed the motivations on the show and the relationship at the moment is far more emotional and less of a business transaction as it was in the books. This will lead to a more dramatic, Shakespearean arc between the two with the main reason behind Shae's betrayal and Tyrion's murder of her being based on jealousy and heartbroken bitterness. That's probably why they will be prolonging the lead-up to the Tyrion-Sansa wedding because I'm assuming they're going to be digging a lot into how this impacts the Tyrion-Shae relationship. It's been set up already in the S2 finale with her insisting that the two of them could flee the capital so they could live happily ever after away from Tyrion's fear and duty to his family. He's going to make the choice this season to remain loyal to his father's wishes and still pursue some vestige of power in Westeros which will absolutely devastate Shae and lead to her eventual betrayal (Sansa being involved isn't going to help either based on the relationship that she and Shae have built up on the show).

I'd suggest looking at the Tyrion re-read thread over in the book forum. It gives a very different perspective on the their marriage.

I don't think this is true. Walter White, Tony Soprano, Frank Underwood: Anti-heroes are all the rage these day. I think that TV producers have to realise that audiences aren't stupid and can handle morally grey protagonists. I mean what are they going to do once Tyrion goes off the deep end in S5?

Agreed. As to the bolded sentence, I think the trend will continue. It seems to be happening for many of the characters, with a couple exceptions.

[Pinkie Baelish]

I don't think this is true. Walter White, Tony Soprano, Frank Underwood: Anti-heroes are all the rage these day. I think that TV producers have to realise that audiences aren't stupid and can handle morally grey protagonists. I mean what are they going to do once Tyrion goes off the deep end in S5?

Very few shows can pull off such dark protagonists as the ones you listed. I'm not sure whether Game of Thrones is capable of doing so just yet. But yes, I do agree that they really need to start darkening Tyrion more for Season 5. And like I said, if they showed Tyrion giving Antler Men to Joffrey to launch over the walls, it would make the audience far more inclined to support Stannis rather than the Lannisters. That was one of the great things about Blackwater-the audiences were split in who to root for. It makes the battle more three-dimensional that way.

Also, with the loss of Ned in Season 1, despite the large amount of characters, the audience still needs a central figure to root for. Even The Wire, with its huge cast, had McNulty. I don't necessarily agree with this, but it is proved by ratings. In Season 2, the producers elevated Tyrion to the forefront of the show, and considering that he has the most number of POV chapters in the book as well, it was a wise move. If they had made Tyrion as grey as he was in the books when the show is only into its second season, it has the chance to alienate viewers, which is something this show just can't afford to do.

BTW I do agree that they should add the whole Symon Silvertongue incident to the show. And as for the complaints regarding Tyrion's whitewashing, all I'm saying is, give it time. The show has only had two seasons so far. Even Walter White wasn't completely evil by the end of Season 2.