Jon and the King's Men vs. Mel and the Queen's Men

[Fire Eater]

In ASoS Jon III:

A sinkhole in the center of the floor opened on what might have been an even greater cavern below, though the darkness made it hard to tell. Jon could hear the soft rushing sound of an underground stream somewhere below.

In ADwD Bran II, Coldhands tells Bran "The back door is three leagues north, down a sinkhole."

The CotF cave also has an underground river, and that could be the exact same underground river Jon heard in ASoS. Jon and the wildlings may have unwittingly found the back door, and Jon may visit it again if he goes in that direction for some reason, but it will spell trouble if Mel and the Queen's men accompany him.

I think Jon will be part of an expedition with Mel, as she finds the location of who she believes to be the servants of the Great Other. Jon will find Bran and the CotF, and he will undoubtedly defend him against Mel and the Queen's Men. Davos and Jon should get along just fine, both being honest men with good political acumen and ethics. Davos will side with Jon along with any wildlings and Northmen in their party.

"Lady Melisandre is not part of my command. You are. I won't have bad blood between the king's men and my own."

Jon says he won't get into conflict with the King's Men, the name of the faction led by Davos, but he will with the Queen's Men. Godry the Giantslayer has many times displayed an antagonism towards Jon throughout ADwD, and he may get to try his sword against Jon's like he wanted in the beginning of ADwD.

As for Davos, he will probably square off against Axell Florent. Axell, besides being a devoted follower of Melisandre, has always had it in for Davos for being made Stannis's Hand instead of him. In ASoS, it was revealed he would not shy away from killing Davos, by threatening to push him off the battlements to his death if he didn't cooperate, and pulling out his dagger at one point.

Thoughts?

[lady m]

This is interesting, I have to admit. I have a question, how much, if any, information do you think Jon will receive from Bloodraven & Bran while he's 'dead?'

[Fire Eater]

This is interesting, I have to admit. I have a question, how much, if any, information do you think Jon will receive from Bloodraven & Bran while he's 'dead?'

He may get some visions like BR sent Bran, appearing to Jon as a tree or 3-eyed crow to communicate with him.

[bemused]

Godry would be toast then..Jon won't be running away.. :)

Bravo , on the sinkhole...

[western wolf]

The sinkhole was a nice catch. As for Jon, it doesn't seem like he'll be in a position to lead any expeditions, or be in command of the NW, as of the end of ADwD

[Fire Eater]

The sinkhole was a nice catch. As for Jon, it doesn't seem like he'll be in a position to lead any expeditions, or be in command of the NW, as of the end of ADwD

He isn't dead, and whatever state he is in after ADwD, won't be permanent. Jon will be in a fit enough state.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

This sinkhole...is it in the cave where they stopped and Ygritte and Jon went off and enjoyed each other's company? Nice catch.

[Fire Eater]

Devan may be with the party as well, and he will have to choose between his father and Melisandre. We may see him fight opposite his father, especially if Mel bumps uglies with him to make shadowbabies, but he will be spared by Jon in combat for his father's sake.

I would like to see a battle between Davos and Axell Florent with Axell letting out all his pent up anger and resentment.

Hell, we could even through Wun WUn into the mix, it wouldn't be the first time he killed a Queen's Man.

[ASongOfStarkAndTargaryen]

Jon will warg into Hodor to get the information from Bran and/or BR

[Fire Eater]

Jon will warg into Hodor to get the information from Bran and/or BR

Why do that when BR can visit Jon while he's out after the "Ides of Marsh" like he did with Bran?

[Fire Eater]

Mel won't be able to send a shadowbaby to kill BR from outside the cave as it is warded with spells like at SE. But I think she will get inside and kill BR given their Perun-Veles influence. I wouldn't be surprised if BR foresaw his own death, possibly being one of the reasons why he called for Bran to come to him now along with the Long Night. He wants to teach Bran in the amount of time he has before he dies.

Perun is described as having coppery hair, and associated with the East. As well as being the deity of fire, Perun was associated with eagles. Melisandre has coppery hair, comes from the East and it is felt in her accent and breath by characters. She also burns Orell's eagle, and fire is her thing.

There is the universal myth of the World Tree that could tie in with the weirwood. The trunk of the tree represented the realm of mortals, the upper branches the sky, the realm of heavenly deities and celestial bodies and the roots which represented the underworld. Veles was the Slavic god of earth, water and the underworld, and he was associated with sorcery and dragons. Veles was in constant conflict with Perun.

When dawn broke over the city, the dark red blooms of dragon’s breath surrounded the girls where they lay.

BR's sigil is a white dragon breathing red flames. Dragons in Slavic mythology, as hiraeth may have mentioned, are extremely intelligent, wise and knowledgeable creatures of superhuman strength and proficiency in magic, which describes BR well. Veles is said to take the form of a dragon, and transforms into animals, trees and people. BR can warg into animals and weirwood trees as a greenseer. The CotF cave is a kind of underworld as it has weirwood roots coming out of its walls, and the magic of greenseeing is connected to the Old Gods, which is rooted in earth and water.

The story goes of Perun slaying Veles, who takes the form of a dragon, only to have Veles be reborn in a new body like a snake shedding its skin. The old greenseer will be replaced by the new greenseer, Bran.