Beric Zoolander Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I'm not trying to be a hater, but in my opinion, I don't see how an analyzing Stannis thread can work because he hasn't changed at all throughout the books. You could analyze him as a character, but not in a way that looks at how he's changed.If you look at my arguments get refuted in this theas you may see a little growth there and honestly I think there is an argument for a lot of growth and acceptance of his duty as rightful king of westeros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I'm not trying to be a hater, but in my opinion, I don't see how an analyzing Stannis thread can work because he hasn't changed at all throughout the books. You could analyze him as a character, but not in a way that looks at how he's changed.I think there's a pretty big shift in Stannis actually towards the end of ASoS when he tells Jon he now realises Kingship isn't a right, but a duty. He stops moaning about how Robert never gave him his due and starts acting in a way where he's attempting to fix a huge problem we readers have been privy to since the GoT prologue.Ask most Stannis supporters and that'll probably be one of the moments he went from just another character to someone they were actively invested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I'm not trying to be a hater, but in my opinion, I don't see how an analyzing Stannis thread can work because he hasn't changed at all throughout the books. You could analyze him as a character, but not in a way that looks at how he's changed.My thoughts exactly.You would think there wasn't dozens of other characters to talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I think there's a pretty big shift in Stannis actually towards the end of ASoS when he tells Jon he now realises Kingship isn't a right, but a duty. He stops moaning about how Robert never gave him his due and starts acting in a way where he's attempting to fix a huge problem we readers have been privy to since the GoT prologue.In ADWD he kinda bounced back and is again fully in "me rightful king" mode, what with whining at those who wouldn't kneel to him, attempting to redistribute the Gift among his servants, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 In ADWD he kinda bounced back and is again fully in "me rightful king" mode, what with whining at those who wouldn't kneel to him, attempting to redistribute the Gift among his servants, and so on.A little bit at the start when he's getting angsty at Castle Black, but then he shifts to sorting out the Ironborn and the Boltons. He's rescuing Deepwood Motte and letting the Wildlings through the Wall. He even sends Jon the letter he finds oddly sentimental "I will save your sister if I can".I think Stannis is the sort of person who is only happy when he's moving and doing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lummel Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 ...So in this thread I would like us to talk about Stannis’ *evolution* from the Lord of Dragonstone to the rightful King on the Iron Throne.Isn't what happens that Melisandre believes that he is Azor Ahai and is working on him to fight the Others and that Davos convinces him that it is his duty to defend the realm - if he is a true king (or as Prop Joe put it "act the part, be the part").For Melisandre the iron throne, at best, is a means to an end if it provides the resources for Azor Ahai to fight the Great Other (which is what she believes is the purpose and meaning of Stannis' life). Davos challenged Stannis to live up to his oft stated principle of duty. In that way I'd say that Stannis was pushed into certain behaviour and in so far as he has internalised this, he'll be happy enough.Quite how far that relates to being rightful king of westeros will depend on how you want to define the criteria that you think should determine who should be king of westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Glokta Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 ...So in this thread I would like us to talk about Stannis’ *evolution* from the Lord of Dragonstone to the rightful King on the Iron Throne.I guess you meant "rightful Usurper on the Iron Throne" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 The one line that always makes me scratch my head in retrospect was the blacksmith in the NW comparing the three Baratheons to metals.Robert- SteelStannis- IronRenly- CopperHe might be right on Renly, but I think he mixed up Stannis and Robert.As soon as Robert is faced with any adversity after the Rebellion he pops a bottle, puts his tail between his legs, and retreats.Stannis probably doesn't even know that there is such a concept as giving up. He's like George Chuvalo, he doesn't have the tools or talents of his adversaries, but he sure as shit is tougher than any of them.That's something that made me wonder as well. Why do the fans take that line so seriously?Fact: Donal Noye saw Renley last when Renley was eight years old. Hard to judge the grown man by the small boy.Fact: Robert was an emotional coward. Hardly qualifies for "true steel". And Donal Noye saw him last in the Rebellion, the height of his life.Fact: Stannis can take advice and adjust himself. Donal Noye saw him last as the commander who held Storms End in the Rebellion. His commander at that, the guy who made him eat rats and boot leather instead of yielding. Of course his impression has to be colored by that experience.The only reason I can imagine why that statement is taken so seriously is Donal Noye's role as "dead mentor of the hero TM". And "dead mentors of the hero TM" are never wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 That's something that made me wonder as well. Why do the fans take that line so seriously?Fact: Donal Noye saw Renley last when Renley was eight years old. Hard to judge the grown man by the small boy.Fact: Robert was an emotional coward. Hardly qualifies for "true steel". And Donal Noye saw him last in the Rebellion, the height of his life.That would be the Greyjoy Rebellion. Not to nitpick, but you infer a few conclusions from that.But agreed on the general thought: Noye's assessment was sadly outdated, even if it had been accurate ten years earlier (which I'm not 100% convinced of). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyinblack Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Isn't what happens that Melisandre believes that he is Azor Ahai and is working on him to fight the Others and that Davos convinces him that it is his duty to defend the realm - if he is a true king (or as Prop Joe put it "act the part, be the part").True dat & a man gots ta have a code--Omar LittleStannis has a codeFor Melisandre the iron throne, at best, is a means to an end if it provides the resources for Azor Ahai to fight the Great Other (which is what she believes is the purpose and meaning of Stannis' life). Davos challenged Stannis to live up to his oft stated principle of duty. In that way I'd say that Stannis was pushed into certain behaviour and in so far as he has internalised this, he'll be happy enough.Quite how far that relates to being rightful king of westeros will depend on how you want to define the criteria that you think should determine who should be king of westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 snip I liked everything you said and I think that you are right but for me the turning point for Stannis was when he said: I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.I guess you meant "rightful Usurper on the Iron Throne" Baratheons have the throne. Stannis is Robert's heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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