Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 When has Stannis been dishonourable? Unless you mean the shadowbaby incident, which has been argued to death.Don't everyone mean the shadow baby when they bashing Stannis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Don't everyone mean the shadow baby when they bashing Stannis?Pretty much. I was just hoping for an original argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 Pretty much. I was just hoping for an original argument. I think it's like a schedule...Sunday: He doesn’t have friends.Monday: He wanted to kill Edric StormTuesday: He shadoebabied RenlyWednesday: He has MelThursday: He isn’t faithful to SelyseFriday: He isn’t charmingSaturday: He is too serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Stannis isn't honorable and IIRC he's never claimed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Domeric Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 also I give Davos more credit with convincing Stannis to go North to the Wall. If it weren't for Davos reading that letter Stannis would have been content to pout around Dragonstone. Additionally I don't think he went to the Wall for reasons of duty, repelling a massive wildling incursion into the realm definetely curries him favor with the small folk and likely some of the northern houses that have no love for Boltons. He's far from the "King that Cared" although the misperception as such only helps him.To me Stannis would be nothing if not for those who keep is closest council, primarily Davos and Melisandre. He may be the body but those two are the ones pulling the strings. Without them his inflexibility makes him impotent and a rather poor leader and I find it very hard to figure out what exactly it is about him that could inspire such fanatic devotion to him (perhaps more so on the forums then in the books). I find his iron sense of justice to be kind of out of place, in a world of grey,Stannis is black and white. So any evolution in Stannis reflects the waxing and waning of Davos and Mel's influence on him, rather than him growing as a character. Just my opinion though (and i've probably really stepped in it given the irrational amount of Stannis love on these boards) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 also I give Davos more credit with convincing Stannis to go North to the Wall. If it weren't for Davos reading that letter Stannis would have been content to pout around Dragonstone. Additionally I don't think he went to the Wall for reasons of duty, repelling a massive wildling incursion into the realm definetely curries him favor with the small folk and likely some of the northern houses that have no love for Boltons. He's far from the "King that Cared" although the misperception as such only helps him.To me Stannis would be nothing if not for those who keep is closest council, primarily Davos and Melisandre. He may be the body but those two are the ones pulling the strings. Without them his inflexibility makes him impotent and a rather poor leader and I find it very hard to figure out what exactly it is about him that could inspire such fanatic devotion to him (perhaps more so on the forums then in the books). I find his iron sense of justice to be kind of out of place, in a world of grey,Stannis is black and white. So any evolution in Stannis reflects the waxing and waning of Davos and Mel's influence on him, rather than him growing as a character. Just my opinion though (and i've probably really stepped in it given the irrational amount of Stannis love on these boards)You can expect a shadowbaby to appear within the next hour or so. :P It's true that Mel and Davos influence him, but that shows that he can listen to advice. Stannis is consistent and you can rely on him to be brutally honest, with no beating around the bush and his sheer tenacity is awe-inspiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Melisandre's thoughts on Jon Snow and Stannis always stuck out to me as pretty meaningful.(...)Both men were unbelievers by nature, mistrustful, suspicious. The only gods they truly worshiped were honor and duty.I've been under the impression that the old gods were very important to Jon. Not only because he went beyond the Wall to say his oaths, but also because "Winterfell belonged to the old gods": one of the reasons for rejecting Stannis' offer was Jon's unwillingness to burn its heart trees (and it was when one of the few alternatives was execution, should the black brothers elect Slynt or Thorne). Stannis, true, doesn't care much for gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Domeric Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 You can expect a shadowbaby to appear within the next hour or so. :PIt's true that Mel and Davos influence him, but that shows that he can listen to advice. Stannis is consistent and you can rely on him to be brutally honest, with no beating around the bush and his sheer tenacity is awe-inspiring.I guess I see that, but to me thats actually a flaw in the game of thrones. He's consistent to the point of predictability, and he would just get picked clean apart by more savvy players like Petyr and Varys. I guess that speaks to his distaste for political scheming but thats a large part of what being King is, for better or for worse. I think Robert had that same kind of distaste which is why his small council was far more powerful then he was. The difference is that while Robert could atleast turn to feasting and drinking and whoring to fill his boredom, Stannis seems too serious a person to be able to deal the tedium of the reality of the crown. It just seems like Stannis' only hobbies are wanting to be king and burning traitors alive. If he ever becomes King, the first is moot and well I remember another King who burned traitors alive. How did that end for him again...In the end I don't really hate Stannis, he just doesn't do much for me. Primarily because I don't see him as a dynamic person, and his all or nothing black and white attitudes towards justice and pretty much everything else, while effective when leading an army or even just a single castle, are ill suited for ruling an entire Kingdom.and just to playdevil's advocate, alot of people can be called consistant. Petyr Baelish is very consistent, we're all just not privy to his end game or his means. Stannis broadcasts his intentions for everyone to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisDantas Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 When has Stannis been dishonourable? Unless you mean the shadowbaby incident, which has been argued to death.Burning effigies in ACOK, killing Renly and Courtnay Penrose out of pride and hubris, considering killing Edric Storm, allowing Alester's Florent's death just to humor Melisandre, stealing castles from the Night's Watch without even admiting that it is what he does, killing helpless prisoners in Deepwood Mote - all of those are known examples of Stannis' strangely ignored lack of moral principles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Hunter Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 That which lends Stannis a wildly bigger popularity in fandom than he ever earned in the canon of the books.Towards a somewhat diminished favor; Stannis used to be lauded as if he was the Last Bastion of Virtue in Westeros.He is still way over-valued and over-lauded, but not to the degree he used to be.Towards acknowledging his inner misery and dishonor.We are still far, so far from there, but there is some progress already.Hahaha, I was wondering when you would show up.I love Stannis, BTW, but Ive done many analysis on him already so, I have nothing else to add to this.In terms of his 'bad deeds' I could care less when he burned people are killed Renly. I dont believe in kinslaying and I wouldve done the same thing in all instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WunWunAintDone Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Somewhere around the middle of the series he turned into a comical caricature of a cheesy 80s action movie star. "Im so badass my way or the highway" type. Corny one liners bragging about himself. Hes like Stallone and Schwarzenegger and Bruce Willis and Don Quixote mixed into one buffoonish guy. Davos as his Sancho Panza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisDantas Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I hardly care that Renly was his brother. Had he killed Joffrey after agreeing to face him in the battlefield I would be only slightly more disappointed with Stannis.That moment was significant because it signaled for the first time how hollow his talk of honor actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Hunter Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I hardly care that Renly was his brother. Had he killed Joffrey after agreeing to face him in the battlefield I would be only slightly more disappointed with Stannis.That moment was significant because it signaled for the first time how hollow his talk of honor actually is.This is true and I agree, but I sympathize with Grey characters. Thats why I am a fan of Jaime, Victarion and Roose. Jaime pushed a boy out of a window, Roose is a spineless turncloak and Victarion strangled his wife...yet I love them all and Stannis is the King by right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisDantas Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Sandor Clegane is grey. Tyrion is light grey. The Tyrells are grey.Stannis is a glorified thug, somewhere between Sandor and Roose Bolton - and far closer to Roose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Hunter Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Sandor Clegane is grey. Tyrion is light grey. The Tyrells are grey.Stannis is a glorified thug, somewhere between Sandor and Roose Bolton - and far closer to Roose.I think your a bit biased my friend, but if that is how you feel, all good. ....Hail Stannis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionAhaiReborn Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Tyrion is light grey.You lose all credibility as a moral arbiter with this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Tyrion is light grey. Har!Anyway, I tend to think that Stannis has become less of a dick since CoK. I've always loved him, but upon realizing the threat of the Others I think he has his priorities somewhat straighter.Stannis has flaws. Every character does. He does his duty, and no one can deny that with a reasonable argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Éadaoin Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Tyrion is light grey. And this is where you lost me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 hahahahahah, yea guys Stannis is totes just as bad as roose bolton, a guy that condones rape and flaying people alive for fun. I think the anti Stannis arguments jumped the shark a while back, but this is truly a new height of glory. Also davos has Stockholm syndrome, and the kids are really Roberts after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I think your a bit biased my friend, but if that is how you feel, all good.....Hail Stannis!Biased is not the word, im not sure there is a word in existence to explain this. Stannis grayer then tyrion? Roose bolton? A thug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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