Are the Starks too remote/isolated, backwaterish to be considered good matches in the south?

[The Frosted King]

Aside from the kingdoms that are geographically closest, like the Eyrie and Riverlands?

We know the Lannisters generally consider the north a desolate wild, and that Redwynne(iirc) considers the north generally worthless.

I know the Starks are technically above them, but would an offer from Rickard to match lets say Lyanna to the hightower heir be entertained?

Or Robb to a hightower firstborn maid?

We know that the Martells were willing to ally with a house an entire kingdom away(Lannisters), but they're the richest house in the realm, and descended from kings.

Would the Hightowers or another high profile southern house do so?

Before someone throws Robert/Lyanna, he decided the match, after being friends with Ned for years and hearing about her from her brothers lips. And Robert isn't the smartest guy, even if he has good intentions.

Who's to say if his parents would've been ok with such a far flung alliance?

Am i mistaken, or is there something to it?

[BericDondarrion]

Who cares what the Redwynes thinks of the Starks. One are lords of winterfell, warden of the north and former kings in the north. The other are wussy wine makers who aren't even liege lords .

[otherbeef]

well i imagine Southern ladies wouldn't much enjoy moving to Winterfell (ala Cat) but the Starks are former kings and certainly worthy of a match with another Great House. really the Tullys married "up" when they joined houses with the Starks.

[Lord of 311]

Considering Jorah was given the hand of a Hightower, I don't really see a Stark being denied.

[Rheagar Prime]

Considering Jorah was given the hand of a Hightower, I don't really see a Stark being denied.

i believe she was a redwyne not a hightower

[Lord of 311]

i believe she was a redwyne not a hightower

Nope.

Lynesse Hightower was her name.

[balefired-ed]

well i imagine Southern ladies wouldn't much enjoy moving to Winterfell (ala Cat) but the Starks are former kings and certainly worthy of a match with another Great House. really the Tullys married "up" when they joined houses with the Starks.

Yeah, as far as marriages go, Stark is as high as you can go before royalty. One of the oldest, if not THE OLDEST, houses in Westeros, former kings, lords of the largest landmass, and probably militarily the second strongest house in Westeros.

That goes without mentioning the fact that even though they don't show it like the noveau riche southerners, they are probably loaded.

[ARYa_Nym]

Jorah married Lyneese Hightower but I wonder if Leyton is ill. His daughter is known as the Mad Maid and I remember reading smth about the two of them locked up in a tower. It's his son who do the ruling.

So that may have been out of the norm.

I think Dorne isn't interested. The two regions are far apart and don't offer much benefit to one another. The Targs and Martells have married in the past so that would be different. Mellario was foreign but a love match.

[The Fallen]

` Man, oh man, this subject makes me a little sad. I've always felt that House Stark is easily one of the top three houses in all of Westeros with regards to prestige, history, etc... But I watched a GRRM interview where he was kinda making fun of the North, and by extension the Starks, as being poor, backwards and kinda ignorant. It crushed me.

I mean, the northern lords such as Manderly and Bolton seem just as courteous and respectful and well-spoken as their southron counterparts. Heck, Roose can even be considered progressive when it comes to the health and well-being of the body. But every time I defend the North now I have those comments in the back of my mind.

But getting back to the Starks, I think they're actually a great match for any other house in Westeros. If the Hightowers allowed one of their daughters to marry Jorah Mormont, I would think that they would have been elated to marry off a daughter to the future heir and Lord of Winterfell.

The Tullys married into House Stark and the Freys jumped at the opportunity to marry a daughter to Robb Stark. Also, Cersei, a Lannister, had no problem with Joffrey marrying Sansa Stark.

The south may make fun of and hold the north in low regard, but I think House Stark of Winterfell is viewed differently and held in higher regard and esteem than the rest of the north.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

The next generation of lords are going to be salivating to marry their daughters to a future Stark lord/King.

Neds superior leadership, Robb's skill as a general and Arya's overall badass-ness will cement in everyones head that despite being desolate and in the middle of nowhere their daughters will give birth to little badasses. The Starks have a reputation for being cold but the war of the Five Kings will be a constant reminder that you probably shouldn't pick a fight with them unless you want to be embarrased on the battlefield.

[Naathi Prince]

I don't know why you'd think a Stark isn't considered a good match in the South, after all, Brandon was supposed to marry a Tully and Lyanna a Baratheon. Most likely, without the untimely death of Brandon, Ned would have found himself married to Cersei or one of the women from the top rung of non-Lords Paramount, Royce, Hightower, Redwyne, etc.

[Saint Arya]

` Man, oh man, this subject makes me a little sad. I've always felt that House Stark is easily one of the top three houses in all of Westeros with regards to prestige, history, etc... But I watched a GRRM interview where he was kinda making fun of the North, and by extension the Starks, as being poor, backwards and kinda ignorant. It crushed me.

I mean, the northern lords such as Manderly and Bolton seem just as courteous and respectful and well-spoken as their southron counterparts. Heck, Roose can even be considered progressive when it comes to the health and well-being of the body. But every time I defend the North now I have those comments in the back of my mind.

But getting back to the Starks, I think they're actually a great match for any other house in Westeros. If the Hightowers allowed one of their daughters to marry Jorah Mormont, I would think that they would have been elated to marry off a daughter to the future heir and Lord of Winterfell.

The Tullys married into House Stark and the Freys jumped at the opportunity to marry a daughter to Robb Stark. Also, Cersei, a Lannister, had no problem with Joffrey marrying Sansa Stark.

The south may make fun of and hold the north in low regard, but I think House Stark of Winterfell is viewed differently and held in higher regard and esteem than the rest of the north.

:agree:

I think given what they have to offer, no Stark would be refused.

[TheMysteriousOne]

I think the Starks are in the the top 10 most powerful Houses of Westeros.

[The Frosted King]

I don't know why you'd think a Stark isn't considered a good match in the South, after all, Brandon was supposed to marry a Tully and Lyanna a Baratheon. Most likely, without the untimely death of Brandon, Ned would have found himself married to Cersei or one of the women from the top rung of non-Lords Paramount, Royce, Hightower, Redwyne, etc.

Robert himself agreed to the match, after Ned talked her up to him. We don't know if his possibly more politically minded parents would've agreed.

The Riverlands border the north, so friending them makes sense.

See Jaime and Lysa match making attempt.

You didn't read the books if you think Tywin would marry his daughter to the second son of a backwater family.

Ned had best be willing to settle for second and third daughters and nieces.

I love the Starks, but they're a poorish pagan backwater with old blood.

The first three blemishes kinda nullify the last positive, imo.

[Castellan]

They have strategic/military power - enough to make considerable trouble if they aren't kept sweet, as proven by the Young Wolf.

Of course they are 'hicks' their environment breeds strength of character and of mind but not necessarily quickness of wit and much aquaintance with things outside their circle.

[LoyalStarkBannerman]

In ASOS, there's a conversation between Tyrion and Tywin. Tywin is chastising Tyrion over the fact that he hasn't bedded Sansa. Tywin says something about Sansa along the lines of "do you find something wrong with the girl? She's quite comely and of the highest birth." As we all know, Sansa is the daughter of a great lord and another great lord's daughter.

[Naathi Prince]

Robert himself agreed to the match, after Ned talked her up to him. We don't know if his possibly more politically minded parents would've agreed.

The Riverlands border the north, so friending them makes sense.

See Jaime and Lysa match making attempt.

You didn't read the books if you think Tywin would marry his daughter to the second son of a backwater family.

Ned had best be willing to settle for second and third daughters and nieces.

I love the Starks, but they're a poorish pagan backwater with old blood.

The first three blemishes kinda nullify the last positive, imo.

Jon Arryn would have advised Robert on any marriage he made, and we're never told if it was Robert or his father who made the match. The ties between the Lords of Storm's End and the Lords of Winterfell goes back a long ways. Hoster Tully purposefully tried to marry into all of the most powerful Houses. He tried to marry his daughters to Jaime, the biggest prize in the Seven Kingdoms, and Brandon, the heir to the North. But its his older, more capable, more attractive daughter that he tries to set up with the Starks. The one who will be his heir if Edmure were to die in before having a child.

And you didn't read the books if you think the Starks are poor. Catelyn gives a silver stag as a tip to every single oarsman on her galley, Theon spends a lot of money on whores, and they have been around for thousands of years as Kings. Ned is 2nd in line, and any crises in the Stark family means Tywin can try to put his grandson in Winterfell.

[TheMysteriousOne]

And you didn't read the books if you think the Starks are poor. Catelyn gives a silver stag as a tip to every single oarsman on her galley, Theon spends a lot of money on whores, and they have been around for thousands of years as Kings. Ned is 2nd in line, and any crises in the Stark family means Tywin can try to put his grandson in Winterfell.

But compared to most of the Great Houses, yes, the Starks are 'poor'

[Naathi Prince]

But compared to most of the Great Houses, yes, the Starks are 'poor'

Compared to the Lannisters and the Tyrells, yes. Compared to the Arryns? yes. Compared to the Martells or the Greyjoys and maybe the Tullys and Baratheons? Not necessarily. Winterfell sends a lot of horses, food and supplies to the watch, can trade through White Harbor with Braavos the lumber that Braavos needs, etc. No matter how you slice it, the Stark's aren't poor.

[Petyr Baller]

The northmen have different culture and religion, and rather awful winters. Also, the north is so sparsely populated that it seems traveling singers don't even call on Winterfell very often. For people who care about such things, they might not want to move up north, but there's no doubt the Starks have plenty of prestige.