R+L=J v.44

[Jon Icefyre]

Hahaha, actually yes her name is used. I thought everyone already new who Cat, she does ask about her. There were two names used Jon and Ashara, when Ned asked "I will ask you where you heard that name he is not refering to Jon, but to Ashara, which is who Cat asked him about. I am pretty sure he is not asking where she heard Jon's name. You know a person can be upset about more than one thing. You know Ned himself actually spred false rumors about Wylla, I do not believe he told anyone not to use her name ever again. But Ashara drew a much different reaction. It's pretty clear she is a sensitive matter for Ned. Not sure why you would have a problem with Nen being sensative about what appears to be a painful part of his past.

No offense but I don't even see a debate here. Or why it would be debated, it's pretty clear in the text. Cat does not say nobody ever asked about Jon again, which I don't think they did either. But clearly states nobody ever said her name again. Also if your going to debate what I posted why are removing the quote from the book then saying it's not about Ashara. You actually removed an entire quote like I never posted it then are trying to debate it. It seems you want the converstaion to stop at Jon but it did not, not in my post and not in the text.

Well actually I don't think Ned's okay with anyone speaking of Wylla because when Robert was talking about Wylla, Robert mentions the fact that if he wasn't Ned's king Ned would have hit him already for mentioning her so I wouldn't exactly agree with the notion that Ned was okay with anyone speaking of Wylla. If Ned really tried to make it obvious to everyone in the realm that Wylla was Jon's mother then I doubt Cersei would have brought up Ashara's name to Ned during their little confrontation. Also notice when she does bring up her name there is really no indication of any sad emotions in Ned towards Ashara the woman who would supposedly be Jon's dead mother, yet when Cersei brings up Lyanna's name Ned says in his thoughts he wanted to cry. The point being, that yes Ned was obviously refering directly to Ashara when he asks Cat about where she heard that name, but when he says "Never ask about Jon he is my blood and that's all you need to know." He is not only telling Cat to never ask him if Ashara is Jon's mother but he is also telling Cat not to ask or talk about who Jon's mother is in general. Like you said he could have been mad about two things at the same time. If Ned was so open to telling ppl that Wylla was Jon's mother then why doesn't Cat mention her once in her thoughts surely you think she would have no?

[MtnLion]

Hahaha, actually yes her name is used. I thought everyone already new who Cat, she does ask about her. There were two names used Jon and Ashara, when Ned asked "I will ask you where you heard that name he is not refering to Jon, but to Ashara, which is who Cat asked him about. I am pretty sure he is not asking where she heard Jon's name. You know a person can be upset about more than one thing. You know Ned himself actually spred false rumors about Wylla, I do not believe he told anyone not to use her name ever again.

I am not sure where you get that, as I don't recall anyone saying that Ned was the source of rumors. It seems that Wylla is only mentioned by Ned, once, to answer Robert's question.

But Ashara drew a much different reaction. It's pretty clear she is a sensitive matter for Ned. Not sure why you would have a problem with Nen being sensative about what appears to be a painful part of his past.

"That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her. 'Never ask me about Jon,' he said cold as ice. 'He is my blood and that is all you need to know." He is angry about the speculation about Jon's mother, it is as clear as can be.

No offense but I don't even see a debate here. Or why it would be debated, it's pretty clear in the text. Cat does not say nobody ever asked about Jon again, which I don't think they did either. But clearly states nobody ever said her name again.

In Catelyn's presence. Remember we only have her POV on this.

Also if your going to debate what I posted why are removing the quote from the book then saying it's not about Ashara. You actually removed an entire quote like I never posted it then are trying to debate it. It seems you want the converstaion to stop at Jon but it did not, not in my post and not in the text.

Your sentence includes Ashara Dayne, I saw no reason to have both. Ned does not forbid Ashara's name in any POV that we have, but it is clear that he is reacting to the rumor mill, and stopping it. If you think that Ned does forbid Ashara's name, produce a reference for where he is witnessed to do it, or from his POV he says that. You are extrapolating something that can have other motives, and much more valid ones, considering what we know.

[Ser Creighton]

You know I think it is important to note that if you take quotes and modify them that you can in fact get whatever answer you are looking for. I don't do that, I give whole conversations and leave them in the context they were given in. When you take and modify what is from the books you change the books. I am not talking about paraphrasing or the like I am talking about removing whole parts of the text or changing it to fit your own needs. That is not my style, I do not change what is in the books, not the context, not the wording. But I see this done all the time. It's a bad habit and people should steer away from it. Just my 2 cents on that matter.

You know I spend a lot of time writing all that down, that's not cut and paste, for some odd reason I can not get my Ipad to copy and paste quotes from my library. So I type all of that down, then I go over it twice to make sure I didn't make a mistake, then people take and modify it or change it. Not cool. I actually put effort into getting the quotes from the books exact. You know somebody reads a person quoting me, who has changed what I wrote, and that makes it look like I wrote down the wrong quote, which I do not. That is not cool, please do not alter what I wrote down when you are quoting me. It's not like you have to write down what I typed in, you just have to hit the quote button and it's all done for you. You start removing stuff, or changing quotes or taking things out of the context they were given and you change an entire post. I never do that to anyone, please refrain from doing it to my posts. I am only asking for the same courtesy I give everyone else.

[MtnLion]

Except that the book actually states that it is Ashara Dayne's name that is never mentioned again. It says nothing about whether speculation over Jon's mother stops.

It says Catelyn never heard Ashara's name again, not that it is never mentioned again.

[MtnLion]

You know I think it is important to note that if you take quotes and modify them that you can in fact get whatever answer you are looking for. I don't do that, I give whole conversations and leave them in the context they were given in. When you take and modify what is from the books you change the books. I am not talking about paraphrasing or the like I am talking about removing whole parts of the text or changing it to fit your own needs. That is not my style, I do not change what is in the books, not the context, not the wording. But I see this done all the time. It's a bad habit and people should steer away from it. Just my 2 cents on that matter.

You know I spend a lot of time writing all that down, that's not cut and paste, for some odd reason I can not get my Ipad to copy and paste quotes from my library. So I type all of that down, then I go over it twice to make sure I didn't make a mistake, then people take and modify it or change it. Not cool. I actually put effort into getting the quotes from the books exact. You know somebody reads a person quoting me, who has changed what I wrote, and that makes it look like I wrote down the wrong quote, which I do not. That is not cool, please do not alter what I wrote down when you are quoting me. It's not like you have to write down what I typed in, you just have to hit the quote button and it's all done for you. You start removing stuff, or changing quotes or taking things out of the context they were given and you change an entire post. I never do that to anyone, please refrain from doing it to my posts. I am only asking for the same courtesy I give everyone else.

You should look at the text, I broke it up to explicitly show that it was a single complete thought. Ned got icy about speculation about Jon's mother from Catelyn. It is clear and complete. After that he asks her where she had heard Ashara's name as a possible mother.

[Ser Creighton]

Well actually I don't think Ned's okay with anyone speaking of Wylla because when Robert was talking about Wylla, Robert mentions the fact that if he wasn't Ned's king Ned would have hit him already for mentioning her so I wouldn't exactly agree with the notion that Ned was okay with anyone speaking of Wylla. If Ned really tried to make it obvious to everyone in the realm that Wylla was Jon's mother then I doubt Cersei would have brought up Ashara's name to Ned during their little confrontation. Also notice when she does bring up her name there is really no indication of any sad emotions in Ned towards Ashara the woman who would supposedly be Jon's dead mother, yet when Cersei brings up Lyanna's name Ned says in his thoughts he wanted to cry. The point being, that yes Ned was obviously refering directly to Ashara when he asks Cat about where she heard that name, but when he says "Never ask about Jon he is my blood and that's all you need to know." He is not only telling Cat to never ask him if Ashara is Jon's mother but he is also telling Cat not to ask or talk about who Jon's mother is in general. Like you said he could have been mad about two things at the same time. If Ned was so open to telling ppl that Wylla was Jon's mother then why doesn't Cat mention her once in her thoughts surely you think she would have no?

Very true, bad wording on my part, but he is spreading a rumor when speaking about her. I agree on the point about Jon's mother, which I stated in the original post. I am not saying Ned is saying Ashara is Jon's mother. I stated he is sensitive about Ashara as well as Jon, Lyanna, and Jon's past. The post was not about who is Jon's mother, it was about Neds relationship with Ashara. That's why you have that whole Edric Dayne section.

I repeat over and over and over again my opinion on Jons parents in my posts, I have stated it a 100 times. Now answer me, who do I think Jon's parents are. You read many of my posts on the matter, who have I said his parents most likely are?

[Bold Barry Whitebeard]

It says Catelyn never heard Ashara's name again, not that it is never mentioned again.

Assuming that Sir Creighton is accurate, the quote is:

""That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her." "Never ask me about Jon" he said cold as ice. "He is my blood and that is all you need to know. And I will learn where you heard that name my lady." She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfell again.""

[Jon Icefyre]

Very true, bad wording on my part, but he is spreading a rumor when speaking about her. I agree on the point about Jon's mother, which I stated in the original post. I am not saying Ned is saying Ashara is Jon's mother. I stated he is sensitive about Ashara as well as Jon, Lyanna, and Jon's past. The post was not about who is Jon's mother, it was about Neds relationship with Ashara. That's why you have that whole Edric Dayne section.

I repeat over and over and over again my opinion on Jons parents in my posts, I have stated it a 100 times. Now answer me, who do I think Jon's parents are. You read many of my posts on the matter, who have I said his parents most likely are?

Ya no I get what you're saying as I said I agree that Ned was pissed that Cat brought up Ashara's name specifically because I do think he had some sort of fondness for her and guilt/shame over killing her brother possibly leading to her suicide, so he is most likely protective over anything being spead about her for that reason. But I also think he was warning Cat to never breach the subject of who Jon's mother is in general. That's all i'm saying I wasn't trying to say you think Jon's parents are Ned and Ashara I know you've said you only see that as an unlikely slim possibility. My point in always mentioning the fact that Ned and Ashara are believed by some on this thread to very likely be Jon's parents is more to address the other ppl on this thread that are N+A=J believers while at the same time addressing your posts. Sorry bout that I didn't mean to confuse you or lead you to believe I think you're arguing for N+A=J to be the most like scenario because I know you're not.

[MtnLion]

Assuming that Sir Creighton is accurate, the quote is:

""That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her." "Never ask me about Jon" he said cold as ice. "He is my blood and that is all you need to know. And I will learn where you heard that name my lady." She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfell again.""

From Catelyn's POV, again. She can only account for what she heard, she is not omnipotent as a POV, none of them are. Sansa is wrong, too when she thinks the Hound has kissed her.

[Bold Barry Whitebeard]

From Catelyn's POV, again. She can only account for what she heard, she is not omnipotent as a POV, none of them are. Sansa is wrong, too when she thinks the Hound has kissed her.

Maybe, though you'd hope that the Mistress of Winterfell, who had heard the rumors before, would know if they continued to spread after their Lord ordered them to stop.

[Ruby Chevrolet]

Maybe, though you'd hope that the Mistress of Winterfell, who had heard the rumors before, would know if they continued to spread after their Lord ordered them to stop.

Don't forget that Harwin heard the Ashara rumor when he was at Winterfell. But only once, when he was a young child.

Mr. Martin definitely wants us to believe that Eddard put a stop to any discussion of Ashara Dayne at Winterfell after that discussion with Catelyn.

[Jon Icefyre]

Assuming that Sir Creighton is accurate, the quote is:

""That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her." "Never ask me about Jon" he said cold as ice. "He is my blood and that is all you need to know. And I will learn where you heard that name my lady." She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfell again.""

Yes and then Cat later goes on to say "Whoever Jon's mother was Ned must have loved her firecely." Which indicates that she was not entirely convinced that Ashara was Jon's mother or she would have just said Ashara instead of "whoever". Cat only specifies to the reader that Ashara's name was never mentioned again because she starts off telling readers that the original question she asked Ned was specifically about Ashara being Jon's mother, that doesn't mean that Ned's complete answer was only about Ashara though. As I said before once Ned heard Cat ask if Ashara was Jon's mother Ned probably realized that Cat was curious about who Jon's mother was so even if he flat out said no to Ashara being Jon's mother, Cat would still keep asking him who the mother was until Ned decides to tell her. So not only was Ned telling her not to mention Ashara again as Jon's mother he was also telling her not to breach the subject of who Jon's mother is in general because he probably didn't want to deal with Cat constantly badgering him about who Jon's mother is. Why is that so hard to understand?

If the subject really had come up about about who Jon's mother was again after that don't you think Cat would have mentioned it once in her thoughts? Don't you think she would have at least informed the readers on the other woman/women other than Ashara that could have been involved with Ned or be the mother of Ned's bastard who she loathed so much? Based on the fact that she doesn't menton Wylla or anyone else specifically other than Ashara I think it's safe for the reader to assume that the subject of who Jon's mother was never brought up again at least not by Cat or i'm sure she would have at least mentioned those other canidates in her thoughts.

[Bold Barry Whitebeard]

Yes and then Cat later goes on to say "Whoever Jon's mother was Ned must have loved her firecely." Which indicates that she was not entirely convinced that Ashara was Jon's mother or she would have just said Ashara instead of "whoever". Cat only specifies to the reader that Ashara's name was never mentioned again because she starts off telling readers that the original question she asked Ned was specifically about Ashara being Jon's mother, that doesn't mean that Ned's complete answer was only about Ashara though. As I said before once Ned heard Cat ask if Ashara was Jon's mother Ned probably realized that Cat was curious about who Jon's mother was so even if he flat out said no to Ashara being Jon's mother, Cat would still keep asking him who the mother was until Ned decides to tell her. So not only was Ned telling her not to mention Ashara again as Jon's mother he was also telling her not to breach the subject of who Jon's mother is in general because he probably didn't want to deal with Cat constantly badgering him about who Jon's mother is. Why is that so hard to understand?

If the subject really had come up about about who Jon's mother was again after that don't you think Cat would have mentioned it once in her thoughts? Don't you think she would have at least informed the readers on the other woman/women other than Ashara that could have been involved with Ned or be the mother of Ned's bastard who she loathed so much? Based on the fact that she doesn't menton Wylla or anyone else specifically other than Ashara I think it's safe for the reader to assume that the subject of who Jon's mother was never brought up again at least not by Cat or i'm sure she would have at least mentioned those other canidates in her thoughts.

I'm not sure that I agree. I understand where you're coming from, and it does make sense to a degree. However, we're obviously not privy to all of Catelyn's thoughts, even with her being a POV character. GRRM has to decide what he is going to convey with each chapter. He doesn't need Catelyn to think about Wylla because he has Robert, and the lord who talks to Davos to do that.

There seems to be a real separation over what people think about Jon's mother. Edric Dayne and Cersei think Ashara, the people of the vale/white harbor think it's Wylla, a fisherman's daughter. We know that Catelyn heard the Ashara theory from gossiping servants at Winterfell. We don't know how they heard that theory, however. It's possible they never heard the Wylla theory, and that's why Catelyn doesn't think about it.

[Ser Creighton]

You should look at the text, I broke it up to explicitly show that it was a single complete thought. Ned got icy about speculation about Jon's mother from Catelyn. It is clear and complete. After that he asks her where she had heard Ashara's name as a possible mother.

No you broke an entire line of thinking Cat had. You took out both the beginning and the end of what she was thinking. It's not even two quotes, it's one paragraph from the books. I included both the firs paragraph about the rumors followed by the second paragraph about Ned reations and words. So yes in fact you changed it. You removed and you broke it apart. The proof is in the text and my inital post.

I don't care if it's just Cats POV, or another persons POV, Cat has a right to the POV since she was part of it. The entire series is done from POV, how do you expect me not to quote from a characters POV when that's all the books are? I followed up the support of Neds Relationship with Ahsara with Arya's POV reguarding Edric Dayne, which you also removed. I did not give you one source but in fact 2. You also seem under the mistaken belief that I am talking about Jon's mother. At no point to do I claim she is Jon's mother, nor have I ever. I have stated like many that she is a possablity outside of R+L=J because their is not conclusive evidence to either but have stated time and again that R+L=J is the most likely pairing.

The entire post was not about who is or is not Jon's mother, it was about some of the relationships Ned had with people surrounding the mystery of Jon's parents. Ashara Dayne and House Dayne both of which I addressed in the post being part of that mystery. I have done the same thing for Lyanna, Rhaegar and even Howland Reed. The reason I do it is because people often mis quote the source material, or add a lot of white noise. I add my own perspective and thoughts to what is written in the books.

R+L=J may be a theory but it is a well substantiated theory.

N+A=J is a less substantiated theory. N+A=close relationship is actually a well substantiated theory though.

House Dayne+ Jon and Ned = they are helping protect Jons past is a theory, but it does have some textual support.

N+L= very close brother sister relationship is a well substantiated truth.

Ned+Robert= two men who were close as brothers at one time is a supported and proven truth.

Ned+R= Ned respected Rhaegar is nothing more than fan theory at this with no textual evidence.

Brandon Stark slept around is a truth. We don't have Brandon saying he did it, but we know he did it.

Ned having a relationship with Ashara is supported by Edric Dayne, Cat, Allyria Dayne, and to an extent Howland Reed via the story of the Knight of the Laughing tree which he told to his children. Selmy also for good or bad ties Stark and Ashara together.

Now if anyone would like to go to Chapter 6 AGoT and check and see if I misquoted anything you are more than welcome, and Chapter 43 of ASoS for the Arya quotes. You are more than welcome to see if I misquoted, changed or took anything out of context. Also take note that I have not edited that post at all.

[Jon Icefyre]

I'm not sure that I agree. I understand where you're coming from, and it does make sense to a degree. However, we're obviously not privy to all of Catelyn's thoughts, even with her being a POV character. GRRM has to decide what he is going to convey with each chapter. He doesn't need Catelyn to think about Wylla because he has Robert, and the lord who talks to Davos to do that.

There seems to be a real separation over what people think about Jon's mother. Edric Dayne and Cersei think Ashara, the people of the vale/white harbor think it's Wylla, a fisherman's daughter. We know that Catelyn heard the Ashara theory from gossiping servants at Winterfell. We don't know how they heard that theory, however. It's possible they never heard the Wylla theory, and that's why Catelyn doesn't think about it.

First of all Edric doesn't think Ashara is Jon's mother, although he does think Ned and Ashara were in love he tells Arya specificaly that Wylla is Jon's actual mother and Edric's milk mother. Wylla and the fisherman's daughter are two different ppl Wylla is supposed to be a wetnurse that is in service to house Dayne. The fisherman's daughter is someone else enitrely. As I said before if the subject was really brought up again about someone else being Jon's mother you think Cat would have at least mentioned if Ned did or didn't acknowldege those other possible canidates in her thoughts, if nothing else but to compare it to how Ned responded to Ashara's name being mentioned. Again here's the quote from Edric when he say's that Wylla not Ashara is Jon's mother:

"My lady?" Ned said at last. "You have a baseborn brother . . . Jon Snow?"

"He's with the Night's Watch on the Wall." Maybe I should go to the Wall instead of Riverrun. Jon wouldn't care who I killed or whether I brushed my hair . . . "Jon looks like me, even though he's bastard-born. He used to muss my hair and call me ‘little sister.' " Arya missed Jon most of all. Just saying his name made her sad. "How do you know about Jon?"

"He is my milk brother."

"Brother?" Arya did not understand. "But you're from Dorne. How could you and Jon be blood?"

"Milk brothers. Not blood. My lady mother had no milk when I was little, so Wylla had to nurse me."

Arya was lost. "Who's Wylla?"

"Jon Snow's mother. He never told you? She's served us for years and years. Since before I was born."

"Jon never knew his mother. Not even her name." Arya gave Ned a wary look. "You know her? Truly?" Is he making mock of me? "If you lie I'll punch your face."

"Wylla was my wetnurse," he repeated solemnly. "I swear it on the honor of my House."

[Bold Barry Whitebeard]

First of all Edric doesn't think Ashara is Jon's mother, although he does think Ned and Ashara were in love he tell Arya specificaly that Wylla is Jon's actual mother and Edric's milk mother. Wylla and the fisherman's daughter are two different ppl Wylla is supposed to be a wetnurse that is in service to house Dayne. The fisherman's daughter is someone else enitrely. As I said before if the subject was really brought up again about someone else being Jon's mother you think Cat would have at least mentioned if Ned did or didn't acknowldege those other possible canidates in her thoughts, if nothing else but to compare it to how Ned responded to Ashara's name being mentioned. Again here's the quote from Edric when he say's that Wylla not Ashara is Jon's mother:

"My lady?" Ned said at last. "You have a baseborn brother . . . Jon Snow?"

"He's with the Night's Watch on the Wall." Maybe I should go to the Wall instead of Riverrun. Jon wouldn't care who I killed or whether I brushed my hair . . . "Jon looks like me, even though he's bastard-born. He used to muss my hair and call me ‘little sister.' " Arya missed Jon most of all. Just saying his name made her sad. "How do you know about Jon?"

"He is my milk brother."

"Brother?" Arya did not understand. "But you're from Dorne. How could you and Jon be blood?"

"Milk brothers. Not blood. My lady mother had no milk when I was little, so Wylla had to nurse me."

Arya was lost. "Who's Wylla?"

"Jon Snow's mother. He never told you? She's served us for years and years. Since before I was born."

"Jon never knew his mother. Not even her name." Arya gave Ned a wary look. "You know her? Truly?" Is he making mock of me? "If you lie I'll punch your face."

"Wylla was my wetnurse," he repeated solemnly. "I swear it on the honor of my House."

Whoops, you're right about that. I don't have the books in front of me. But I think you're actually making my point stronger. Though to be fair, I really didn't articulate my point all that well.

I was trying to say that different geographic locations have different theories on Jon's mother.

Dorne thinks it's Wylla, the servant of house Dayne. White Harbor thinks it's Wylla, a fisherman's daughter. Winterfell and Cersei think it's Ashara.

The point I was trying to make is, does Catelyn not mention the other possibilities because all discussion was squashed, or because those theories didn't circulate throughout all Westeros?

Edit: Personally, I have a hard time believing that even the Lord of Winterfell could squash all speculation as to Jon's mother. Servants love to gossip. I could believe that he could squash them gossiping about Ashara Dayne, however.

[Jon Icefyre]

Whoops, you're right about that. I don't have the books in front of me. But I think you're actually making my point stronger. Though to be fair, I really didn't articulate my point all that well.

I was trying to say that different geographic locations have different theories on Jon's mother.

Dorne thinks it's Wylla, the servant of house Dayne. White Harbor thinks it's Wylla, a fisherman's daughter. Winterfell and Cersei think it's Ashara.

The point I was trying to make is, does Catelyn not mention the other possibilities because all discussion was squashed, or because those theories didn't circulate throughout all Westeros?

Edit: Personally, I have a hard time believing that even the Lord of Winterfell could squash all speculation as to Jon's mother. Servants love to gossip. I could believe that he could squash them gossiping about Ashara Dayne, however.

If we're talking about Ned being able to stop his own servants from talking about all the speculation then yes as Lord of Winterfell I think he could squash it, the North is not like other regions. And even if he couldn't as you're suggesting that actually proves my point more because if there was other speculation from Ned's own servants being spread around why would Cat not hear about those the same way she heard about Ashara? And if she did hear those other rumors again why doesn't she mention it her thoughts? In my opinion it's because no one in Winterfell that knew any better dared to bring up Jon's mother in general ever again after Ned set Cat and his servants straight the first time.

[Bold Barry Whitebeard]

If we're talking about Ned being able to stop his own servants from talking about all the speculation then yes as Lord of Winterfell I think he could squash it, the North is not like other regions. And even if he couldn't as you're suggesting that actually proves my point more because if there was other speculation from Ned's own servants being spread around why would Cat not hear about those the same way she heard about Ashara? And if she did hear those other rumors again why doesn't she mention it her thoughts? In my opinion it's because no one in Winterfell that knew any better dared to bring up Jon's mother in general ever again after Ned set Cat and his servants straight the first time.

Well I think we're going in circles now. GRRM doesn't show us people talking about it around a campfire, swapping theories. Everyone communicates their own piece of the puzzle. I would argue that there isn't any need, from a writing stand point, to have Catelyn run through all the theories in her mind. GRRM wanted to shed light on the Ashara Dayne theory, which itself is a small part of a larger chapter. To you and I and this thread, the discussion of Jon's parentage is a big deal. In the context of Catelyn's story at this point, it's not, so there is no need for her to dwell on it.

Edit: Asking why Catelyn didn't think about other theories is like asking why Ned didn't just straight up think about Jon's actual mother.

[Jon Icefyre]

Whoops, you're right about that. I don't have the books in front of me. But I think you're actually making my point stronger. Though to be fair, I really didn't articulate my point all that well.

I was trying to say that different geographic locations have different theories on Jon's mother.

Dorne thinks it's Wylla, the servant of house Dayne. White Harbor thinks it's Wylla, a fisherman's daughter. Winterfell and Cersei think it's Ashara.

.

Btw the fisherman's daughter's name is not Wylla idk where you're getting that from here's the quote:

"Ned Stark was here?"

"At the dawn of Robert's Rebellion. The Mad King had sent to the Eyrie for Stark's head, but Jon Arryn sent him back defiance. Gulltown stayed loyal to the throne, though. To get home and call his banners, Stark had to cross the mountains to the Fingers and find a fisherman to carry him across the Bite. A storm caught them on the way. The fisherman drowned, but his daughter got Stark to the Sisters before the boat went down. They say he left her with a bag of silver and a bastard in her belly. Jon Snow, she named him, after Arryn.

It's never said that her name is Wylla, infact her name is never stated in general.

[Jon Icefyre]

Well I think we're going in circles now. GRRM doesn't show us people talking about it around a campfire, swapping theories. Everyone communicates their own piece of the puzzle. I would argue that there isn't any need, from a writing stand point, to have Catelyn run through all the theories in her mind. GRRM wanted to shed light on the Ashara Dayne theory, which itself is a small part of a larger chapter. To you and I and this thread, the discussion of Jon's parentage is a big deal. In the context of Catelyn's story at this point, it's not, so there is no need for her to dwell on it.

Edit: Asking why Catelyn didn't think about other theories is like asking why Ned didn't just straight up think about Jon's actual mother.

Well he thinks about Lyanna all the time so if R+L=J is indeed true then it can be argued that that's what Ned has been doing in his thoughts all along can't it? Anyways as you said this is starting to go in circles so we're going to have to agree to disagree we both have made some pretty strong arguments on both sides and I really don't see either of us changing our minds on the matter lol. The point is we understand each others arguments. There are some others on this thread who's arguments i'll probably never come to understand because they're quite frankly bs arguments but you are not one of those people. So let's just agree to disagree on the matter. :cheers: