Sansa_Stark Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 What? That is totally different scenario. If Robert wasn't the King then yes it would have rightfully gone to his children, but the point is HE IS THE KING. Yes and he gave Stannis Dragonstone and Renly Storm's End. There is no problem with this. He did not have to give either to them. What happens if he just gave both to whatever children he birthed? Why is it so bad that he decided to give Stannis something when he didn't have to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco_Dracul Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 He conquered DragonStone. It didn't matter if Robert didn't plan to give it to him. It was his. By the same law Aegon, Robert were proclaimed Kings.Ned says: He could have, it would have made him a traitor to the crown, but he could have done so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Yes and he gave Stannis Dragonstone and Renly Storm's End. There is no problem with this. He did not have to give either to them. What happens if he just gave both to whatever children he birthed? Why is it so bad that he decided to give Stannis something when he didn't have to? Why was it so hard for him to give Storm's End? When he held it during HARD times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Why was it so hard for him to give Storm's End? When he held it during HARD times. Because Robert needed Stannis at Dragonstone and he wanted to reward both brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Because Robert needed Stannis at Dragonstone and he wanted to reward both brothers. Yes, if you believe Cressen's comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Because Robert needed Stannis at Dragonstone and he wanted to reward both brothers. Why RENLY? What did he ever do? What did he do to deserve the seat over Stannis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Because Robert needed Stannis at Dragonstone and he wanted to reward both brothers. There are different ways of handling that scenario. Stannis could be Lord of Storm's End and Castellan of Dragonstone until a son was of age. Renly and Stannis spent most of their time in Kinglsanding anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Why RENLY? What did he ever do? What did he do to deserve the seat over Stannis? "Yet he had sound reasons. Dragonstone had long been the seat of House Targaryen. He needed a man's strength to rule here, and Renly was but a child." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 There are different ways of handling that scenario. Stannis could be Lord of Storm's End and Castellan of Dragonstone until a son was of age. Renly and Stannis spent most of their time in Kinglsanding anyway. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Giving Renly Storm's End has no negative effect on the realm thus Stannis shouldn't be concerned about it. It showed the world that Robert rewards people more for doing nothing than for helping him. It also shows that he dislikes Stannis, publicly exhibiting the weakness of House Baratheon. It shows that Robert is unreasonable because he blamed Stannis for not grabbing the Targ kids at Dragonstone even though there was no way he could have done so. Robert wanted to generously reward both of his brothers and that meant giving Renly Storm's End and Stannis Dragonstone as was Robert's full right. It was his right, yes. But it was insufficiently generous. It was meant to be a slight, as Cersei admits. Your post directly talks about Stannis making it possible for Robert to be king or Stannis saving the realm in the Greyjoy Rebellion thus giving the false impression that Stannis was some absolute defining player. Because he was. If Storm's End falls, then it has the same devestating effect on morale that the fall of Winterfell had on Robb's army. Plus, it frees up the Tyrells to assist Rhaegar on the Trident, potentially meaning that Robert loses that defining battle. Holding Storm's End was instrumental. If Stannis doesn't smash the Iron Fleet, then Robert cannot attack the Iron Islands because his fleet would be harassed by Balon's. I really don't see how you can say that the Master of Ships was inconsequential in a naval rebellion. Storm's End was Robert to give to whoever he wants, similarly Dragonstone. Meaning that Robert had no obligation to give Stannis anything thus either one is a representationof generosity. But Stannis clearly deserved Storm's End more than Renly, hence his complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Yeah well life isn't fair. You don't always get what you want. Is that really so hard for Stannis to accept? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Why is it so bad that he decided to give Stannis something when he didn't have to? Because Renly got it even though he didn't deserve it. You don't always get what you want. Is that really so hard for Stannis to accept? He accepted it. He just didn't like it, which is why he complained to Robert and wanted him to change his mind. "Yet he had sound reasons. Dragonstone had long been the seat of House Targaryen. He needed a man's strength to rule here, and Renly was but a child." BS. Stannis' "man's strength" was at KL most of the time anyway, not Dragonstone because he was on the Small Council. And why would Robert need so much strength there anyway? The Targs are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 There are different ways of handling that scenario. Stannis could be Lord of Storm's End and Castellan of Dragonstone until a son was of age. How is Renly rewarded in this situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrich Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 How is Renly rewarded in this situation? What exactly, is Renly supposed to be rewarded for? Robert could have given him Lordship one of the Smaller Houses held - which were supporting Aerys - like Grandison or Fell. Also, he was granted a place in the Small Council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Because Renly got it even though he didn't deserve it. Stannis didn't deserve Storm's End either. He accepted it. He just didn't like it, which is why he complained to Robert and wanted him to change his mind. Which is why it was hard for him to accept. BS. Stannis' "man's strength" was at KL most of the time anyway, not Dragonstone because he was on the Small Council. And why would Robert need so much strength there anyway? The Targs are gone. Proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 What exactly, is Renly supposed to be rewarded for? Robert could have given him Lordship one of the Smaller Houses held - which were supporting Aerys - like Grandison or Fell. For being brave during the siege despite being a child or whatever reason Robert wanted to reward him for. Robert wanted to reward Renly with a major reward such as Storm's End or Dragonstone and Stannis already got the later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 What exactly, is Renly supposed to be rewarded for? Robert could have given him Lordship one of the Smaller Houses held - which were supporting Aerys - like Grandison or Fell. Also, he was granted a place in the Small Council. Or Griffin's roost. Or built him a new castle. Stannis didn't deserve Storm's End either. And this is where we fundamentally disagree. Stannis felt he DID deserve Storm's End. Which we agree he did. Because Robert would have likely lost the Rebellion without Stannis' actions. Legally Robert didn't have to give Stannis it, morally perhaps he should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Perhaps. Perhaps not. Where is the proof he spent most time at KL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Stannis didn't deserve Storm's End either. Yes he did. He starved to hold it, and if he hadn't, Robert may have lost the Rebellion. Who did deserve it, in your opinion, if not Stannis? Proof? Being master of ships means sitting on the small council, which meets in KL. The fact that Stannis' absence is remarked upon suggests that he attends regularly, or else he could not have advised Robert to close down brothels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 For being brave during the siege despite being a child or whatever reason Robert wanted to reward him for. How does this "achievement" make him more deserving of the castle than Stannis? Robert wanted to reward Renly with a major reward such as Storm's End or Dragonstone and Stannis already got the later. Then swap them and give Stannis Storm's End and Renly Dragonstone. Or Griffins Roost. Or build him a new castle. Or better yet, give him nothing until he earns it, setting a great example that no one gets stuff he doesn't earn in Robert's realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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