Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

zaphodbrx

[Book spoilers]Locke

Recommended Posts

I like the suggestion of Karstark hacking Jaime's hand off which gives Robb reason to be-head him.

Trouble is, Karstark is going to Riverrun with Robb and Roose is hanging back at Harrenhal.

I cant see Locke going to Karstark instead of his master (Bolton)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the Locke thing works even better than Vargo Hoat. His motives were extremely complicated in the book, I still struggle to grasp it.

Just have Locke as a loose cannon/sadist/patriotic northmen who loses his rag with Jamie's sharp tongue, deceptions and attempted escape. It would have a good parallel with Theon's "escape" and punishment at another Bolton's hand.

Later, Jamie could use the fact that a Bolton bannerman cut his hand off as direct bargaining leverage to trigger Roose's decision to;

1) release him and

2) switch sides in an attempt to save themselves from Tywin's wrath.

So the hand removal could be yet another catalyst for the the RW. Roose is trying to save his ass from Tywin. Dumbed down, true, but its an extra, crystal clear reason for why the Bolton's defect at this precise moment after 1,000 years of Stark loyalty.

They wouldn't have to be explicit about it, just have Bolton saying he will release Jamie by way of apology and for Jamie to ask..."and after you release me, whats to stop me telling my father it was the Bolton's who cut off his son's hand? What is to stop my father rooting you out and removing your hands?..." eye contact is made between the two men. End scene. No explanation given. Eyebrows are raised.

By the end of episode 9, we get out answer as to why Roose will keep his hands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Later, Jamie could use the fact that a Bolton bannerman cut his hand off as direct bargaining leverage to trigger Roose's decision to;

1) release him and

2) switch sides in an attempt to save themselves from Tywin's wrath.

I don't think so. I think Roose will "offer" Locke to the Lannisters [the Mountain] and have the same brutal demise that his source character had. I think this would work better, firstly because Roose is the definition of a cold and calculating character, so I can't imagine him fearing Tywin in the same way everyone does; and secondly because it shows that Roose is ready to sacrifice just about anyone if it works to his own advantage (an idea which would make another later action of his make more sense to show watchers).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats a good extra detail MisunderstoodFrey- Roose sells Locke out to the Lannisters to do as they see fit, though I'm not sure when they would do this considering Jamie has to be released, then go back to save Brienne from the Bear. If Locke has been sold out already, who is tormenting Brienne with the Bear?

I take your point that Roose wouldn't fear Tywin- he says so in the books, but selling Locke may not be enough to ensure Tywin recognises the Bolton's as the wardens of the north after rebelling against him and cutting off his sons' hand without doing "something more" to ensure future recognition. Having Jaimie plant the seed of betrayal by asking who will rule in the north once the Starks are defeated and then implying Tywin wouldn't recognise the Boltons after what they did to his hand...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the Locke thing works even better than Vargo Hoat. His motives were extremely complicated in the book, I still struggle to grasp it.

Just have Locke as a loose cannon/sadist/patriotic northmen who loses his rag with Jamie's sharp tongue, deceptions and attempted escape. It would have a good parallel with Theon's "escape" and punishment at another Bolton's hand.

I agree with this, and the idea that Locke as a loose cannon bannerman of the Boltons works just as well as Hoat, but I definitely don't agree that the hand removal can in any way be related to the motives for the RW, or in Roose Bolton's decision to change sides.

I don't see why things can't / won't basically follow the same overall process as book. Locke removes Jaime's hand 'for some reason', and takes him back to his boss Roose Bolton at Harrenhal. Locke thinks that maiming the dreaded Kingslayer will earn him gold stars and gratitude. But what Locke doesn't know (just as in the book with Hoat) is that Roose is already plotting the RW with Tywin, so that when Roose discovers that his renegade bannerman has removed Jaime's hand, it creates a 'rather awkward' situation for Roose (to put it mildly!), in terms of how new ally Tywin is likely to react. That was exactly what happened in the book at the dinner in the Roose/Jaime conversation: Jaime ends up assuring Roose that if Roose sends Jaime safely on to KL, he (Jaime) will make sure that Tywin knows that Roose had nothing to do with the amputation. That whole scenario could work out perfectly well with Locke replacing Hoat, because all Bolton is worried about is that HE is not held responsible, and that Jaime 'sings the right song' to Tywin as per the book.

What happens to Locke? Again it can work out basically as in the book, with Bolton heading off to the RW and leaving Locke and his men at Harrenhal. At some stage after the bearpit scene, when Jaime and Brienne are back in KL, Lannister forces re-take Harrenhal, with Locke dying and some of his men escaping. of course, depending on what they want to do longer term in AFFC, they 'may' decide to have Locke escape (instead of Rorge and Biter) and meet up with Brienne on her travels, but that is a relatively minor matter. Assuming they even get to show that aspect of Brienne's travels, it would make slightly more sense to have Locke reappear for one episode, rather than one of Locke's own soldiers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't see the point of this change at all. They could have cut off the lisp if that was stopping them, but why change Vargo's name to "Locke"? Just don't really see the point here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't see the point of this change at all. They could have cut off the lisp if that was stopping them, but why change Vargo's name to "Locke"? Just don't really see the point here.

By using Locke they can keep establishing House Bolton, who play a big part in coming events both for this season and future ones. If they use the Brave Companions they have to spend more time establish who they are, that they have belonged to Tywin earlier and they will basically lose all importance after the whole Jaime deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I like the line of thought leading towards winning the Karstarks to the Boltons side by chopping off the hand. Yet it will probably all be a setup on Locke to make the pact with the Lannisters. All this making Roose Warden of the North.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×