Mind Altering Drugs Thread - Therapy, Legality

[Sci-2]

Saw the Spirit Molecule, the documentary on DMT. At 70 or so minutes, I'd say it's definitely worth a watch for anyone wanting an introduction to the subject.

There's some good stuff about using shrooms to decrease anxiety of terminal cancer patients.

Also, as a personal note, was cool to see Neal Goldsmith interviewed as I've actually attended his Poetry Science talks which I recommend to anyone who lives near NYC.

=-=-=

Great talk by Alex Grey, the extraordinary artist whose paintings are incredible depictions of [purported] higher realms.

I love how he met his wife.

[Sci-2]

Magic Mushrooms’ Can Improve Psychological Health Long Term (2011)

The mushroom-derived hallucinogen, called psilocybin, is known to trigger transformative spiritual states, but at high doses it can also result in “bad trips” marked by terror and panic. The trick is to get the dose just right, which the Johns Hopkins researchers report having accomplished.

In their study, the Hopkins scientists were able to reliably induce transcendental experiences in volunteers, which offered long-lasting psychological growth and helped people find peace in their lives — without the negative effects.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

I agree with the idea of that study, but there's the obvious small sample size caveat there.

[Sci-2]

I agree with the idea of that study, but there's the obvious small sample size caveat there.

I think there are situations where small sample sizes can, at minimum, give results that encourage future work with larger sample sizes but yeah I don't think that study alone will change policy.

Random aside harkening back to earlier:

I know through a couple degrees of separation someone that tried ibogaine after opiate issues. Returns are not good from what I have heard. Decent at first with all of the stuff one might like to hear, but back to the old habits after a few months.

I mention this purely as one single anecdote. Ibogaine still has fascinating potential from what little, admittedly, I know.

I think b/c it's a chemical different people will have different reactions.

This guy mentioned earlier, at the time of writing the article, was clean for two years.

[Sci-2]

I'm skeptical of that explanation because it seems to suggest that it's all about genetic determinism or something. I think it's probably more about a deep, personal decision to change. That is not to say that genetics plays no part. Just that it's not the full explanation.

I must be clear that I don't mean to say that you're saying that it's all genes / chemicals.

I'd agree with that, though I wonder if like AA it could be more effective if you buy into the spiritual component. I don't think medicine plants are the magic cure-all but the research at minimum suggest we need more research.

I think we're going to see some calls for greater exploration, as I was told by a friend that more people in the NYC mental health community are talking about the opportunities psychedelics can offer in healing their patients. Seems like there's some underground treatment going. I see this as akin to abortion - do people want the equivalent of a coat hanger situation, or should we bring this thing out of the shadows?

[Sci-2]

I'm skeptical of that explanation because it seems to suggest that it's all about genetic determinism or something. I think it's probably more about a deep, personal decision to change. That is not to say that genetics plays no part. Just that it's not the full explanation.

I must be clear that I don't mean to say that you're saying that it's all genes / chemicals.

So I'm watching this documentary on ibogaine treatment that the filmmakers put on their youtube channel. They mention that ibogaine is not a cure for addiction, but rather an "addiction interupt-er".

That makes more sense than a magical cure, which would probably require rapidly increased neuroplasiticty.

eta: link

[Sci-2]

Forgive the poor grammar I had typed this up years ago talking to someone about ibogaine via email (tried to fix):

"Laid out before me was the entire, intricate process of my self-development. The process was complex yet ultimately organic. The extension of the self was, I realized, a natural process akin to the blossoming of a plant. While a plant extends toward the sun throughout its life, human beings evolve internally. We rise up and flourish, or become stunted, involuted, as we react to the forces that press against us. Our growth takes place in the invisible realm of our mental space, and the unreachable sun we rise toward is knowledge -- of the self and the universe...

I recognized my existing self as the product of all the physical and psychological forces that had acted upon me. Yet there seemed to be something beyond all of it, something that was "mine", an energy projected from outside my biographical destiny. that energy was the self -- and the self's tremendous capacity for transformation...."

-Daniel Pinchbeck recounting his ibogaine experience in Breaking Open the Head

[Sci-2]

The Second Psychedelic Revolution Part One: The End of Acid

The first of a 5-part series examining the state of contemporary psychedelic culture through the contributions of its principal architects: Alexander 'Sasha' Shulgin, Terence McKenna, and Alex Grey.

With Timothy Leary’s ashes already orbiting in outer space and the Grateful Dead disbanded for more than six years following Jerry Garcia’s death, one could have been tempted to believe that the Psychedelic Revolution that had begun somewhere in the mid-1960’s – with the widespread societal introduction of LSD – had finally come to an end. The world had been changed in many ways thanks to the rediscovery of psychedelics. But like most revolutions, its dreams were never fully met, and its heroes were passing into legend[2].

Ironically, as disrupted and antiquated as the ‘Psychedelic Movement’ may have appeared to be at that moment, the seeds of ‘the Second Psychedelic Revolution’ were already planted more than a decade earlier. These seeds bloomed in the desert of that LSD drought.

The Second Psychedelic Revolution Part Two: Alexander ‘Sasha’ Shulgin, The Psychedelic Godfather

If there is ever a Psychedelic Hall of Fame, the section on chemists will be small, since there have only really been two giants in this field — Albert Hofmann, who first synthesized LSD-25 and psilocybin (and later isolated that compound from the magic mushroom specimens provided by R. Gordon Wasson), and Alexander ‘Sasha’ Shulgin, who seems to have invented nearly everything else. (So great are the shadows of these two men that twin statues of them facing each other should be the Hall’s entranceway arch.)

[Sylva Santagar]

What is DMT?

Dimethyltryptamine

C12H16N2

It is a psychedelic compound of the tryptamine family. Very potent! It is one of the most powerful psychotropics known.

[Sci-2]

Psychedelic Science 2013 Mini-Documentary

Transforming Medicine is a mini-documentary showcasing the exciting, multidisciplinary field of psychedelic science through interviews with attendees of Psychedelic Science 2013, an unprecedented event that gathered more than 100 of the world's leading researchers and over 1,900 international attendees to share knowledge about the risks and benefits of psychedelic substances.

The scientific, medical, and educational communities merged together in Oakland, California for over three days of conference presentations and two days of workshops focusing on the role of psychedelics in neuroscience, therapy, culture, and more. In Transforming Medicine, explore the marketplace, go behind-the-scenes, and watch as scientists, students, doctors, and educators explain how psychedelic research is shaping the landscape for the future of science and medicine.

[Sci-2]

LSD, Reconsidered for Therapy

...On Tuesday, The Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease is posting online results from the first controlled trial of LSD in more than 40 years. The study, conducted in the office of a Swiss psychiatrist near Bern, tested the effects of the drug as a complement to talk therapy for 12 people nearing the end of life, including Peter.

Most of the subjects had terminal cancer, and several died within a year after the trial — but not before having a mental adventure that appeared to have eased the existential gloom of their last days.

“Their anxiety went down and stayed down,” said Dr. Peter Gasser, who conducted the therapy and followed up with his patients a year after the trial concluded.

The new publication marks the latest in a series of baby steps by a loose coalition of researchers and fund-raisers who are working to bring hallucinogens back into the fold of mainstream psychiatry. Before research was effectively banned in 1966 in the United States, doctors tested LSD’s effect for a variety of conditions, including end-of-life anxiety.

But in the past few years, psychiatrists in the United States and abroad — working with state regulators as well as ethics boards — have tested Ecstasy-assisted therapy for post-traumatic stress; and other trials with hallucinogens are in the works....

eta:

NeuroSoup

NeuroSoup is based upon principles of harm reduction and strives to educate people around the world on responsible drug use. We hope to educate people about the positive and negative aspects of all drugs, whether they are legal, available by prescription, or illegal. Moreover, NeuroSoup aids in addicted individuals’ recovery by providing online self help drug and alcohol rehab resources. As well, NeuroSoup contends that through the use of the many consciousness expansion tools currently in existence (including spirituality, entheogens, lucid dreaming, meditation, yoga, and sensory deprivation, among others), people can grow spiritually to realize their full potential. We strive to provide resources for people as they walk down this path of consciousness exploration...

[Sci-2]

Mystical Experiences Occasioned by the Hallucinogen Psilocybin Lead to Increases in the Personality Domain of Openness

A large body of evidence, including longitudinal analyses of personality change, suggests that core personality traits are predominantly stable after age 30. To our knowledge, no study has demonstrated changes in personality in healthy adults after an experimentally manipulated discrete event. Intriguingly, double-blind controlled studies have shown that the classic hallucinogen psilocybin occasions personally and spiritually significant mystical experiences that predict long-term changes in behaviors, attitudes and values. In the present report we assessed the effect of psilocybin on changes in the five broad domains of personality - Neuroticism, Extroversion, Openness, Agreeableness, and Conscientiousness. Consistent with participant claims of hallucinogen-occasioned increases in aesthetic appreciation, imagination, and creativity, we found significant increases in Openness following a high-dose psilocybin session. In participants who had mystical experiences during their psilocybin session, Openness remained significantly higher than baseline more than one year after the session. The findings suggest a specific role for psilocybin and mystical-type experiences in adult personality change.

Talk:

Katherine MacLean, Psilocybin and Personality Change

[Sylva Santagar]

Thanks for the great links Sci-2!!

[Baelor Swyft]

Someone who isn't me suffered from very serious depression from about the age of 5 until her early 20s. She had abstained from drug use until age 19 but became very interesting in hallucinogens shortly thereafter. Colloquially speaking, the use of these drugs seemed to 'teach' her body how to enjoy life and possibly how to properly produce endorphins in healthy numbers. After a regimen of utilizing these drugs, once her body seemed to know how to produce happiness of its own accord, swim found no trouble giving them up and has been clean & sober ever since.

Swim is not a doctor and does not claim to be one. All swim has to go by are her results. Had she used traditional psychiatric medicines in place of supposedly-recreational hallucinogens, would her results have been more positive, or more negative? I believe more negative, as it's difficult to imagine any treatment having happened to work out more perfectly than did swim's. Will this work for everybody? Of course not. Did this work for one particular swim? Most definitely.

I definitely believe there is potential in these drugs that is being untapped by the medical community. Potential for abuse is clearly very strong, but at least for some people it can be astronomically helpful.

[Sci-2]

Thanks for the great links Sci-2!!

No prob yo!

Colloquially speaking, the use of these drugs seemed to 'teach' her body how to enjoy life and possibly how to properly produce endorphins in healthy numbers. After a regimen of utilizing these drugs, once her body seemed to know how to produce happiness of its own accord, swim found no trouble giving them up and has been clean & sober ever since.

Watching a documentary about this now - Neurons to Nirvana. One thing that was brought up relating to MDMA as a treatment for anxiety. The idea is the drug offers a doorway that allows for healing but isn't an instant cure.

Also, apparently MDMA was supposed to be Schedule 3 and thus available for use in psychiatry but thanks to the Drug War became Schedule 1. Sad to think how many people might've been helped.

[S John]

I've always been pretty skittish when it comes to psychedelic drugs. More than anything I worry that my innate concern over having a bad trip would become a self-fulfilling prophecy. And I really just don't want to have a shitty day if I don't have to.

But recently I have become aware of DMT mostly through seeing a couple documentaries and I'm really curious about it. The interviews of people I have seen and the descriptions they give + the relatively short duration of its effects in the physical realm make it a lot more appealing to me than LSD or mushrooms. I doubt I'll ever actively seek it out, but I think it is really interesting and interesting enough that I would do it under the right circumstances.

[Sci-2]

I've always been pretty skittish when it comes to psychedelic drugs. More than anything I worry that my innate concern over having a bad trip would become a self-fulfilling prophecy. And I really just don't want to have a shitty day if I don't have to.

But recently I have become aware of DMT mostly through seeing a couple documentaries and I'm really curious about it. The interviews of people I have seen and the descriptions they give + the relatively short duration of its effects in the physical realm make it a lot more appealing to me than LSD or mushrooms. I doubt I'll ever actively seek it out, but I think it is really interesting and interesting enough that I would do it under the right circumstances.

Never tried any of these substances myself, as my interest is in medical usage, but I'd recommend Neurosoup for advice on safe usage.

eta:

Neurons to Nirvana: A Talk with the Filmmakers

It seems to me that the issue of using a drug like MDMA for therapy is a no brainer. Certainly, as the therapists become more cognizant to the potential of that kind of drug for loosening repression and releasing feeling of guilt, it will become obvious that it's too powerful a tool to gather dust.

The future of LSD or ayahuasca? Their widespread acceptance would mean that we are much more concerned with studying what consciousness really is. This would extend to what we can do for ourselves through meditation, yoga, and those sorts of tools -- which can be applied to the psychedelic experience. The sixties was an intense exaggeration of what we can do now, if you will. It had to be. It was a real, visceral push. I'm not putting down any of the people who were involved with that -- people like Tim Leary -- because they had their place. The times required it. But today, for example, yoga is prominent as a tool for people in the West. If psychedelic use is grounded in the experiences available through these consciousness tools, then we could experience a spiritual renaissance. That's what I'm hoping for - a spiritual, cultural renaissance associated with the possibilities of these substances.

[Wise Fool]

I've always been pretty skittish when it comes to psychedelic drugs. More than anything I worry that my innate concern over having a bad trip would become a self-fulfilling prophecy. And I really just don't want to have a shitty day if I don't have to.

But recently I have become aware of DMT mostly through seeing a couple documentaries and I'm really curious about it. The interviews of people I have seen and the descriptions they give + the relatively short duration of its effects in the physical realm make it a lot more appealing to me than LSD or mushrooms. I doubt I'll ever actively seek it out, but I think it is really interesting and interesting enough that I would do it under the right circumstances.

I've done DMT. I've done all the drugs.

DMT is overrated, particularly in the new-agey "spirit molecule" type media you've probably seen. My experience is I sat there for a few minutes, saw some color-shifting visual hallucinations, and then it was over.

LSD or mushrooms, however, provided, well, the psychedelic experience that DMT couldn't - precisely because of the duration of effect. The brain has to deal with the altered reality, instead of being able to just barely become aware of it before it's gone; perceptions and cognition shift in many and subtle ways, and moreover one's sense of consciousness and awareness itself seems to change, and it's somewhere in there that things could become very interesting.

Of course, most experiences weren't really mind-blowing. I've had my awesome, satori-like trip, and I've had my bad trip (actually, the first time was the former, the second the latter) and all the rest were just - drug use, with drug effects that become predictable and therefore not particularly enlightening or amazing.

For what it's worth, what caused my bad trip was that I did it just a few days after my first trip, and because the first was so amazing, I had high expectations which did not pan out, and because of the disappointment I led myself into a cycle of negativity and just wanted to abort the whole thing. But, you know, it passed. No matter the duration of any hallucinogen, it passes, and unless you're alone or doing potentially harmful activities (like driving) or are under some serious stress or mental illness to begin with, it's not going to be terrible. Looking back, I have to say that the bad trip was probably more educational than the good one. But both did get me more acquainted with my brain. DMT just got me to see some pretty colors.

[Sci-2]

DMT is overrated, particularly in the new-agey "spirit molecule" type media you've probably seen. My experience is I sat there for a few minutes, saw some color-shifting visual hallucinations, and then it was over.

Just as a counterpoint, what Strassman did was staged intravenous deliveries of DMT. There's a simple device you can make to maximize the effect of inhaled DMT, I'll ask my friend about it though I'll also see if there's safe use information around on the device.

The aforementioned Neurosoup probably has some info on this.

[Sci-2]

Under the Influence: How did enlightenment thinkers distinguish between ‘drugs’ and ‘medicines’? And how should we?

My sister is a witch. Or, more precisely, a Wiccan astrologer and tarot reader. Growing up as a kid who worshipped Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawking, I found it hard to square her worldview with my own. But that didn’t stop me from feeling a thrill when I visited her shabbily ornate, mist-clad Victorian house in San Francisco’s Mission District in the late 1990s. The city outside hummed with the techno-utopian dreams of the dotcom bubble, but inside candles burned, tarot cards shuffled, and books of occult lore beckoned from attic corners. It was in those candlelit rooms that I began to understand the appeal of the non-rational, and it changed my life....

....In other words, the same novel sensory effects that made substances such as tobacco, opium and cannabis desirable to global consumers also made them fascinating for the earliest experimental scientists. But what did those drugs mean – for them, and for us? How did our modern binary between ‘illicit drug’ and ‘valuable medicine’ come into being?

Drugs have had a bad reputation since at least the time of Shakespeare, whose sleazy, potion-dispensing apothecary in Romeo and Juliet enables that play’s tragic finale. Shakespeare tended to associate drugs with things such as witches (‘mixture rank, of midnight weeds collected’) or Catholic assassins (‘drug-damn’d Italy’). But in the 17th century, drugs acquired associations with the non-European world: the fever-ridden islands of the Caribbean, tropical Africa, or the exoticised ‘East Indies’....