Volantene Republican Army Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Anyone ever get the impression that the IR might be more than just a symbol? It was forged by dragon fire from the swords of fallen enemies, which definetly fits the blood-magic MO.Plus, if it is magic, and Jamie was the first to sit on the throne once the old king was offed, with the blood of the old king still on his armor, might this mean...... that Jamie is the PTWP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juli Greyjoy Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Nah, I don't think that there's anything more to it. It just symbolizes Aegon's triumph over Westeros / the might of the king in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dornishman's Wife Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Yep. Terribly symbolic, but most likely quite unmagical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Well they do make references to the Throne cutting those who are bad rulers or something of that nature, but really it's made of a thousand swords. Anyone could get cut if they spent hours on it and forgot it was not a regular chair. Nothing besides cutting Mad Kings has really happened to or by the Throne itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Symbolic yes, magical no. Of course, symbols can be as powerful as magic in many cases, but objectively it's just a badly designed chair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Soprano Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 It's definitely symbolic, but calling it magical may be a bit of a stretch. The only thing that's remotely magical about it is that it was forged by dragonfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecryptile Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 If it was forged with dragonfire, does that make it dragonsteel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRON BANK Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Anyone ever get the impression that the IR might be more than just a symbol? It was forged by dragon fire from the swords of fallen enemies, which definetly fits the blood-magic MO.Plus, if it is magic, and Jamie was the first to sit on the throne once the old king was offed, with the blood of the old king still on his armor, might this mean...... that Jamie is the PTWP?That would mean any legitimate Targ would be a good ruler and we can see in westeros that is not the case. Plus GRRM's magic doesn't seem to work like that w/in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahl Trollo Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 If it was forged with dragonfire, does that make it dragonsteel?No more than Harrenhal is made of dragon-bricks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volantene Republican Army Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 What made me think of this is a question that's always been nagging me. Melisandre is always talking about how important king's blood is, but who is to say who the king is?I'm rereading CoK right now, and Renly says something interesting on the eve of his (not to be) battle with Stanis. He hints that he knows his claim is weaker than Stanis', but he doesn't care since the only thing that makes one a king is a large army. It worked for Robert and it'll work for him.So on the one hand you have Mel, who says that kingship is a quasi-mystical state which supercharges your blood. She also thinks that Baratheon blood is valid kings blood. While on the other hand you have Renly, who says that a king is made by a large army, as demonstrated by Robert Baratheon. So which is it? Does having a large army and calling yourself a king supercharge your blood? Or is something else required, like maybe sitting on the throne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahl Trollo Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 So on the one hand you have Mel, who says that kingship is a quasi-mystical state which supercharges your blood. She also thinks that Baratheon blood is valid kings blood. While on the other hand you have Renly, who says that a king is made by a large army, as demonstrated by Robert Baratheon. So which is it? Does having a large army and calling yourself a king supercharge your blood? Or is something else required, like maybe sitting on the throne?The act of being a King doesn't magically supercharge them, and I don't think Mel thinks that. But look at who the Kings of the last several hundred years were. So, given she's using it for some kind of blood magic - you'd assume it's pedigree and purity might play some part, the Targs were from a very old family and practiced inbreeding to keep that bloodline pure. Not only that but Robert, who bumped them off the throne comes from a family that is split off that same bloodline. Renly, Stannis - they all share this as well.I don't think it's needing a King, I think it's about needing a specific pedigree of blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volantene Republican Army Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 But as far as pedigree goes, the Baratheon blood ties to the Targaryens were noted to be a thin pretext for Rob’s rule in GoT. Also, you have Gilly taking Mance Rayder’s son away from the wall so that Mel wouldn’t get to him because of he’s the son of the king-beyond-the-wall, which would get beyond the whole blood-line, pedigree ideas. Unless you believe the whole MR = RT theory.Maybe the answer to what makes a king is the answer to Vary’s riddle: power (kingship) resides where people believe it resides. When enough people believe a person is special, it supercharges the blood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morienthar Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Is a giving you sepsis magical??The most magical thing about the Iron throne is how uncomfortable it'd be to sit on cold steel and always being on the look out for the sharp edges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahl Trollo Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 But as far as pedigree goes, the Baratheon blood ties to the Targaryens were noted to be a thin pretext for Rob’s rule in GoT. Also, you have Gilly taking Mance Rayder’s son away from the wall so that Mel wouldn’t get to him because of he’s the son of the king-beyond-the-wall, which would get beyond the whole blood-line, pedigree ideas. Unless you believe the whole MR = RT theory.Maybe the answer to what makes a king is the answer to Vary’s riddle: power (kingship) resides where people believe it resides. When enough people believe a person is special, it supercharges the bloodNo I don't believe that theory. Nor do I need to take Sam and Gilly's excellent adventure into account. Jon sent them away to keep them safe - but did Mel actually make a move on the boy? Nope. That's Jon's idea based on his speculations at the time. (not to mention that Mel keeps MR alive - if it was 'kings blood' via Manse - why not burn him... even Mel doesn't think Manse has whatever quality 'kings blood' is supposed to have).As for Roberts claim for Kingship via his bloodline - It has less to do with him sitting the throne, than it is about what's being told in that pretext. That he shares the same bloodline as the previous kings.On one hand I can look back on the body of work and say 'Yes, they all have a shared lineage.....' but I see nothing to support some kind of innate nature of the world that changes someones blood when they are declared king. Occams Razor.Varys' riddle was very straightforward - no magical supercharging by mandate of the masses, simply a viewpoint on the nature of power for Tyrion to think on. Finishing his point (and putting that riddle in context) that despite his physical stature, he could be considered a powerful man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseHarrison Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 GRRM has things that are actually magical, and things which have gotten legends surrounding them. The Throne is among the latter. It's not magical, but has a lot of folkstories surrounding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volantene Republican Army Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 No I don't believe that theory. Nor do I need to take Sam and Gilly's excellent adventure into account. Jon sent them away to keep them safe - but did Mel actually make a move on the boy? Nope. That's Jon's idea based on his speculations at the time. (not to mention that Mel keeps MR alive - if it was 'kings blood' via Manse - why not burn him... even Mel doesn't think Manse has whatever quality 'kings blood' is supposed to have).As for Roberts claim for Kingship via his bloodline - It has less to do with him sitting the throne, than it is about what's being told in that pretext. That he shares the same bloodline as the previous kings.On one hand I can look back on the body of work and say 'Yes, they all have a shared lineage.....' but I see nothing to support some kind of innate nature of the world that changes someones blood when they are declared king. Occams Razor.Varys' riddle was very straightforward - no magical supercharging by mandate of the masses, simply a viewpoint on the nature of power for Tyrion to think on. Finishing his point (and putting that riddle in context) that despite his physical stature, he could be considered a powerful man.Well, I totally agree with you about the meaning of Vary’s riddle as far as Tyrion. However, this being a work of literature, sometime what a character says has implications and meaning outside what the character meant by it.So what you’re saying is that kings blood is just a proxy for targ blood? I mean, I guess... it’s logical, but it doesn’t seem like a very satisfying answer. After all, Mel didn’t say ‘I need Targ blood / blood of the dragon / blood of old valyria...’ She said she needed king’s blood. Which implies that there’s something special about being king. Which makes me wonder how one gets this specialness...idk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 No. It's not magic even if people would like to think so in order to say that "OMG Targs are special because they have a special chair"!I don't meen you OP but I have seen it too many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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