Valyrian Steel... armor?

[Artos Stark]

Due to the cost and man hours needed to work Valyrian Steel if there was armour made I would think that it was decorative or ceremonial such as Gauntlets and Grieves. Rather than say full suits of plate, Helms and lots of Chainmail.

If any Valyrian steel armour existed then you woud have thought over the centuries at least some would have turned up in Westeros.

If they exsisted they would have been a prized possession to the noble families of Valyria and kept close at hand. Meaning that the suits of armor never would have made it out.

Valyrian steel is so rare and valuable now a days because of the doom of Valyria. At the height of the Valyria I'm prone to believe that it was pretty common there and the noble families of that country would arm themselves and their soldiers with it.

[Valyrian Spoon]

If they exsisted they would have been a prized possession to the noble families of Valyria and kept close at hand. Meaning that the suits of armor never would have made it out.

Valyrian steel is so rare and valuable now a days because of the doom of Valyria. At the height of the Valyria I'm prone to believe that it was pretty common there and the noble families of that country would arm themselves and their soldiers with it.

I can see your point. I just would have assumed at least a few pieces of Armour would have arived in Westeros with the swords and daggers that some noble families ended up getting.

[The BlackBear]

Breastplates might be doable, but whenever they're passed down (as they would be) they'd have to be modified, just to acoputn for the different sizes of whoever wears them.

[Inquisitor Glokta]

Valyrian steel armor does not exist because it would make absolutely no sense to fold 2 different types of steel 1000 times and make a piece of armor.

"These swords are characterized by distinctive patterns of banding and mottling reminiscent of flowing water. Such blades were reputed to be tough, resistant to shattering and capable of being honed to a sharp, resilient edge"

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel

It only works for weapons, at least in the real world with damascus steel and that's GRRMs inspiration i would presume.

Valyrian steel is described as the bolded parts from the above quote

RL:

Hard and soft steel get folded because the sword has a sharper edge and is longer sharp (hard steel) but does not break so easy as if made purely out of hard steel.

Ofc in asoiaf the Valyrians also used spells, but before that its still folded steel ;)

I am pretty sure that making a piece of armor out of folded steel is impossible. Besides it wouldn't even serve any purpose, so what would be the point

[anon76returns]

It only works for weapons, at least in the real world with damascus steel and that's GRRMs inspiration i would presume.

Valyrian steel is described as the bolded parts from the above quote

In other threads discussing weaponry it has been mentioned that GRRM explicitly denied that Valyrian steel is Damascus steel, though I suppose he could still have used it as an inspiration.

I would think that if there was armor made, then Aegon at least (and probably his sisters, and possibly his bastard brother that founded the Baratheon dynasty) would have been wearing some. The Targaryens left Valyria at the height of the empire, and I'd imagine any family with the prestige afforded by owning multiple dragons & several VS swords would also have VS armor, if it was available.

[Syphon the Sanitator]

In other threads discussing weaponry it has been mentioned that GRRM explicitly denied that Valyrian steel is Damascus steel, though I suppose he could still have used it as an inspiration.

I would think that if there was armor made, then Aegon at least (and probably his sisters, and possibly his bastard brother that founded the Baratheon dynasty) would have been wearing some. The Targaryens left Valyria at the height of the empire, and I'd imagine any family with the prestige afforded by owning multiple dragons & several VS swords would also have VS armor, if it was available.

You forget that the Targaryens were a very minor house back on Valyria. They had 3 dragons, but perhaps the greater/greatest houses had dozens. And so, probably more Valyrian steel weapons.

[The BlackBear]

You forget that the Targaryens were a very minor house back on Valyria.

They weren't very minor. There were around 40 ruling families, and Targs were within that top 40, not the top but not the bottom either. Considering the wealth of Valyrai they'd have been powerful and rich enough.

'In Valyria, there were two score rival houses that contested for power. House Targaryen, however, was not considered a powerful house.'

[Groat]

This comes up time and again, and I have a solution no one has mentioned. Plate armor is a Westerosi creation, everything we have seen of Essosi native armies wear very little, if any, armor. While a complete suit of Valyrian steel armor would be amazing because of how light it is, full plate armor is not something seen in Essos, outside of mercenary groups with Westerosi influence and members. I dont like the idea that only a few members of the ruling Valyrian families had Valryian steal armor, because why the discrepency between swords showing up everywhere, but not the armor. Lannisters are famous for their gold mines, with goldenworks from Lannisport being traded as far away as Vaes Dothrak and Asshai, I find it hard to believe that Lannisters before the doom could not afford Valyrian steal armor, I think it never existed.

[The BlackBear]

This comes up time and again, and I have a solution no one has mentioned. Plate armor is a Westerosi creation, everything we have seen of Essosi native armies wear very little, if any, armor. While a complete suit of Valyrian steel armor would be amazing because of how light it is, full plate armor is not something seen in Essos, outside of mercenary groups with Westerosi influence and members. I dont like the idea that only a few members of the ruling Valyrian families had Valryian steal armor, because why the discrepency between swords showing up everywhere, but not the armor. Lannisters are famous for their gold mines, with goldenworks from Lannisport being traded as far away as Vaes Dothrak and Asshai, I find it hard to believe that Lannisters before the doom could not afford Valyrian steal armor, I think it never existed.

Interesting idea, but Aegon was seen in a shirt of scales (in his portrait) if anything it'd be easier to make a suit of Valyrian scales.

[Groat]

Interesting idea, but Aegon was seen in a shirt of scales (in his portrait) if anything it'd be easier to make a suit of Valyrian scales.

Well, Aegon lived 100 years after the doom in Westeros, so he was more influenced by their culture. Valyrians living in Valyria, at the height of their power, probably never really wore armor during battle.

Also, Valyrians were spellcasters, and spellcasters don't wear armor.

[The BlackBear]

Well, Aegon lived 100 years after the doom in Westeros, so he was more influenced by their culture. Valyrians living in Valyria, at the height of their power, probably never really wore armor during battle.

Also, Valyrians were spellcasters, and spellcasters don't wear armor.

They do if they don't want to get an arrow in the spellcasting face. And if they didn't wear armour what would the point be of the straight heavy medieval style VS swords they had. Surely Arahks (sp) would be better and we only know of one.

[anon76returns]

You forget that the Targaryens were a very minor house back on Valyria. They had 3 dragons, but perhaps the greater/greatest houses had dozens. And so, probably more Valyrian steel weapons.

Any source on that? My recollection is that they were a noble house, and surely (Shirley!) dragons were more rare than valyrian steel? Hedge knights in Westeros can generally afford full plate kit, I would think that a Valyrian noble house would be able to afford valyrian steel armor if it was common.

[The BlackBear]

Any source on that? My recollection is that they were a noble house, and surely (Shirley!) dragons were more rare than valyrian steel? Hedge knights in Westeros can generally afford full plate kit, I would think that a Valyrian noble house would be able to afford valyrian steel armor if it was common.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/6592/

'In Valyria, there were two score rival houses that contested for power. House Targaryen, however, was not considered a powerful house. Daenerys the Dreamer, the daughter of the head of House Targaryen, foresaw the Doom and convinced her father to leave Valyria. Her father, Aenar, took his family to Dragonstone along with 5 dragons. In Valyria, this was seen as weakness. The Doom happened 12 years after Aenar left for Dragonstone.'

Not bottom but not cream of the crop either.

[Victor227]

Plate armor doesn't impede your mobility nearly so much as it's popularly attributed to. I'd imagine that the reason none of it exists is because it would be inferior to the weaponry in terms of both economy and function. A lighter, stronger weapon is an amazing advantage. During a battle, especially of the medieval type with full armor, fatigue cuts deeper than most blades. As long as a line remains intact, sides could hack at each other for hours.

Armor of the time was essentially blade-proof anyway, even to Valyrian steel (we know from the fight with Toyne that Dawn can dent normal steel, but can't break it). It's better to have a weapon that lets you fight longer and faster than to have a lighter suit of armor, which would only really come into play during routs. You'd be screwed either way in the event of being rode down by mounted opponents, or falling into a river or such.

We also don't know how well Valyrian steel would translate into armor. It would be lighter, certainly, but if you went with full-plate of the same thickness, it would still be just as cumbersome by size alone (not in weight of course), and if you went thinner, we don't know what sort of impact it would have against maces or other blunt weapons. We've never seen a blade dull, but would a thin sheet be dented by an impact? Obviously it can be worked in some fashion.

So right, about ten times the material requirements, and who knows how much more difficult it would be to forge, re-size, or anything else really.

If any sorts of armor, in any fashion (Essos doesn't really have the best armor technology), were ever made, they'd definitely be prized possessions lost with the Freehold itself. I can't imagine Westerosi lords caring for paying ten times the price for an advantage not as great as a good Valyrian Steel weapon.

[Nudu]

Valyrian steel was not as rare and expensive as it is today so it is quite possible.

[mormont]

In other threads discussing weaponry it has been mentioned that GRRM explicitly denied that Valyrian steel is Damascus steel, though I suppose he could still have used it as an inspiration.

I don't think this is quite correct, I'm afraid. He actually says that Damascus steel is the closest real-life equivalent to VS:

http://www.westeros..../SSM/Entry/1225

I was just wondering if you could settle something for me in relation to Valyrian steel and I I just wondering if I have taken you up correctly on the matter. I belive I'm right in saying it differs from say Mithril (from LOTR) in that it is not a material which in itself bears advantageous properties but rather ordinary steel which has been subjected to a process (the physical manipulation of the steel combined with spells) which embues it with the desired elements.

Yes, that is correct. You don't mine Valyrian steel (actually, you don't mine any steel), you make it.

What I'm less sure of is whether Valyrian steel ever exists as a raw material.

It does not.

I believe it doesn't but only as a finished blade, what I mean is that it is the actual process of making the sword from run of the mill steel which gives us a Valyrian weapon rather than Valyrian steel being made beforehand and then this product being used to make an item.

The closest real life analog is Damascus steel, but Valyrian steel is a fantasy metal. Which means it has magical characteristics, and magic plays a role in its forging.

So, the Valyrian steel is not a material but a part-magical process for forging steel. Thus, the idea that it might simply not be possible to make armour via this process is probably the best explanation. There are also economic arguments and practical ones, as others have indicated.

[Runaway Penguin]

Same question as why there weren't Damascene steel armmors in our world. The technology of production is useful for weapon, not so for armor (apart from the obvious prize tag issue).

EDIT: Same way you generally use different type of metal (even if it is steel) for AP projectiles and for armor.

[BastardofStarfall]

Nothing holds an edge like Valyrian Steel it was used primarily for blades and was extremely difficult to forge even for the Valyrians. Lighter armor would be usefull I bet there was at least one suit of armor made out of Valyrian Steel but they were even rarer than the blades.