Nick_Scryer Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 My advice - DON'T play up the episode as something special to your unsullied friends. It is a mistake. It is better for them to be shocked than disappointed.This is especially true if you are presenting this episode is BEST EVER or MOST SHOCKING TWIST/DEATH. Just don't.This is the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousGeorge Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 I am constantly disappointed by the attempts of people to ruin this show/these books for those who haven't read them by blurting out spoilers concerning who is going to die. If I was just a TV viewer I think it would be impossible to go to any youtube video or web article discussing Game of Thrones, because all the comment sections are full of it, just people doing it for the sake of doing it. I'm not surprised that so many TV viewers say they hate book readers like me.By the way, isn't it a little mean to refer to the TV viewers as 'unsullied'? I mean, given what the unsullied are and what they've done (had their man parts cut off/killed babies/etc...) it seems a bit harsh.Haha go and look up the word unsullied in a dictionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masamune Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Why is Robb going to the Twins? Walder Frey doesn't have anywhere near the men needed to storm Casterly Rock, plus Robb's lost "half his army" in the show.How many men do I need to hang before I get an answer to this question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King in the North Carolina Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Why is Robb going to the Twins? Walder Frey doesn't have anywhere near the men needed to storm Casterly Rock, plus Robb's lost "half his army" in the show.How many men do I need to hang before I get an answer to this question?A couple of episodes back, Robb explicitly stated that House Frey was the only undeclared house with enough men for such an undertaking. So at least he believes they will be sufficient.Obviously, we will never know whether he is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masamune Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 A couple of episodes back, Robb explicitly stated that House Frey was the only undeclared house with enough men for such an undertaking. So at least he believes they will be sufficient.Walder Frey already sent men to fight with Robb in S1, less the 400 to guard the Twins. Are we pretending this didn't happen now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonstoned Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Walder Frey already sent men to fight with Robb in S1, less the 400 to guard the Twins. Are we pretending this didn't happen now?Mate, don't try to make sense of the military side of the show. Even in the books it was flawed. Just sit back and laissez-faire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kev. Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Walder Frey already sent men to fight with Robb in S1, less the 400 to guard the Twins. Are we pretending this didn't happen now?When Robb broke his vows of marriage to the Freys, Walder's army left and went back to the Twins. At least, that's what I assume happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masamune Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Mate, don't try to make sense of the military side of the show. Even in the books it was flawed. Just sit back and laissez-faire.Yeah but Robb wasn't going back for reinforcements in the book, he wanted safe passage to reclaim the North. This version makes no sense whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful Union Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Yeah but Robb wasn't going back for reinforcements in the book, he wanted safe passage to reclaim the North. This version makes no sense whatsoever.I think his/her point was more that war in the books makes hardly any sense to begin with, particularly with the lengthy winter/summer cycles that would ensure that supplying armies would be impossible. That said, the fact that the Frey's leaving in between s2 and s3 wasnt mentioned is a genuine plothole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Walder Frey already sent men to fight with Robb in S1, less the 400 to guard the Twins. Are we pretending this didn't happen now?Bryan Cogman has stated when asked about this that you need to assume that once the Frey's found out about the vow being broken between S2 and S3, they took their ball and went home. A line of dialogue confirming this would have been nice but that's what the showrunners say happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonstoned Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 It's a plothole but meh, the main problem with the 'get Freys, take Casterly Rock' thing is it lacks the emotional impact that Robb finally going home with a solid plan to retake the North had. Maybe they felt this wouldn't make sense as they hadn't mentioned ironborn in Moat Cailin at all so far or even the castle itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 It's a plothole but meh, the main problem with the 'get Freys, take Casterly Rock' thing is it lacks the emotional impact that Robb finally going home with a solid plan to retake the North had. Maybe they felt this wouldn't make sense as they hadn't mentioned ironborn in Moat Cailin at all so far or even the castle itself.Retaking the North was a solid plan but I at least like the rationale the show gave for Robb not taking that path. He stated that they could do this but as soon as they got back home and winter began, he'd never be able to rouse the men he had with them to march south again. He had his army now, was in the Riverlands and this was his only shot at making any progress. He knows that he can't march on King's Landing but attacking Casterly Rock and taking its resources would be so disruptive that it would force Tywin to mobilize his forces and engage Robb on the field again which is what Robb needs to happen. It's a Hail Mary but it's the only way Robb can see as the way forward. In terms of what the show has established, it's a logical next move if not a little desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonstoned Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Oh yeah he did say about not being able to march south again afterwards didn't he. Guess that's another way in which the military logic of the books doesn't always stand up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masamune Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Bryan Cogman has stated when asked about this that you need to assume that once the Frey's found out about the vow being broken between S2 and S3, they took their ball and went home. A line of dialogue confirming this would have been nice but that's what the showrunners say happened.Which just about sums up their treatment of this storyline. Thanks for clarifying.At least Book!Robb was an honourable chump. The war's lost at this point. Going back to hit up Walder Frey for more men, and forgoing his obligation to the North, makes the HBO equivalent look like a straight-up jackass (and let's face it, that's been the trend since S2). If Robb still has aspirations of becoming King in the North, then he would clean up his homeland and consolidate his forces at Moat Cailin. Trying to take Casterly Rock in some bizarre suicide mission, when Walder Frey clearly doesn't have the men needed for such a siege (not to mention they would have suffered casualities during their original campaigning with Robb). I can see why they think Robb taking a dump on Tywin's doorstep is more 'epic' and compelling than him running home, but the numbers don't add up. I guess that's not going to bother your average HBO viewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Watch them address this in this episode early on. It's not a huge deal if you're smart enough to understand the context of the situation with Robb/Talissa/House Frey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Breaker Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 why are they fighting in the streets of yunkai the battle is susposed to take place outside are they just scraping meeren and havin dany control yunkai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the Road Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 why are they fighting in the streets of yunkai the battle is susposed to take place outside are they just scraping meeren and havin dany control yunkaiThat's possible, it's not that great a change. Have a vengeful Astapor as Dany's enemies. The other option is that a city battle is cheaper to film than a pitched battle on a grassy plain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonstoned Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Watch them address this in this episode early on. It's not a huge deal if you're smart enough to understand the context of the situation with Robb/Talissa/House Frey.Care to explain to all us beings of lesser intellect what's going on then? Just in case they forget to address it in the ep. It's not like Robb saying 'take his home, talk his gold, take his power' sheds light on why he didn't do this with a larger army the first time round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabid Grunt Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Yeah but Robb wasn't going back for reinforcements in the book, he wanted safe passage to reclaim the North. This version makes no sense whatsoever.In series 1, either Keven or Tywin points out that the Freys are not marching with the main Stark force, but are moving behind as support. Thus, its not so hard to believe that they turned back after Whispering Wood. Also, this is a show with dragons, and demon babies. Lets not think TOO much into things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Care to explain to all us beings of lesser intellect what's going on then? Just in case they forget to address it in the ep. It's not like Robb saying 'take his home, talk his gold, take his power' sheds light on why he didn't do this with a larger army the first time round.Robb breaks his marriage pact with the Freys. They are (understandably) pissed and go back to the Twins. Robb loses a good portion of his army.Why doesn't he attack Casterly Rock beforehand? I don't know, there might have been a larger garrison there, maybe he wanted to take out Tywin's armies in the field where he was winning all his battles?I'm still in the process of rewatching S1&2 (starting 1x07 today), so I should be able to get more out of it then.Also, I was referring to why people didn't understand why Robb had to go back to the Twins to reclaim the Freys, it wasnt that hard to figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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