unSonofStannis Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 bend the knee to Aegon when he makes himself known to the Riverlands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecryptile Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I think so. Stannis won't let them live due to his sense of justice and the Lannisters are fading fast, so who else can they turn to?ETA: Assuming Aegon wants them as bannermen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 It would be unwise from Aegon's perspective to ally with the Freys. All the Riverlords hate them with passion, and won't join any candidate that supports them. Instead, if Aegon claims that he'll put the Freys to justice, Blackwoods, Mallisters, Pipers and many more will join them. All of them lost relatives in the Red Wedding and will be eager to take revenge.In the eyes of every Westerosi they are accursed in the eyes of the old gods and the new, and the only people that tolerate them are the supporters of the Lannister regime that Aegon is fighting. So the only hope for the Freys is to stand behind Tommen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unSonofStannis Posted May 27, 2013 Author Share Posted May 27, 2013 It would be unwise from Aegon's perspective to ally with the Freys. All the Riverlords hate them with passion, and won't join any candidate that supports them. Instead, if Aegon claims that he'll put the Freys to justice, Blackwoods, Mallisters, Pipers and many more will join them. All of them lost relatives in the Red Wedding and will be eager to take revenge.In the eyes of every Westerosi they are accursed in the eyes of the old gods and the new, and the only people that tolerate them are the supporters of the Lannister regime that Aegon is fighting. So the only hope for the Freys is to stand behind Tommen.And the Freys may yet still have the strength to defeat Aegon's army if no Riverlords join him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of Judah Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 It wouldn't be wise for Aegon to ally with the Freys unless he is being rejected by the other lords and is desperate for support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unSonofStannis Posted May 27, 2013 Author Share Posted May 27, 2013 It wouldn't be wise for Aegon to ally with the Freys unless he is being rejected by the other lords and is desperate for support.We know its not wise but Aegon doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of Judah Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 We know its not wise but Aegon doesn't.Word has already spread throughout the kingdoms about the Freys breaking guest right. Aegon is smart enough to know a little about those he asks for support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 It would be unwise from Aegon's perspective to ally with the Freys. All the Riverlords hate them with passion, and won't join any candidate that supports them.Pure fanfic. The Freys have the Twins, Riverun and Darry and have houses Charlton, Erenford and Haigh sworn to them as well as marriage alliances with the majority of the Riverlords.It's weird how many readers perceptions of events are tainted, for example why would House Goodbrook feel pity towards the Tully's after Hoster burned their village for supporting the rightful rulers.Some like the Mallisters will hold them with contempt, but very few of the RiverLords were present at Robbs coronation of the Riverlands and it's unclear on their feelings towards the Starks, Tullys or Freys. Robin Ryger was the master of arms for House Tully and was so loyal that he choose to go the Wall because of his loyalty to Tully yet a generation before they were fighting for the Targs against the Tully's. Nothing is set in stone and families allegiances can change so pretending that one action forever makes the Freys villains is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Nastja Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 It seems likely. Aegon is becoming rather powerful, and the Frey's won't want to miss out on a chance to ally themselves with him. That said, let us hope that Walder does not wish for a marriage to secure the alliance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slender Aimry Hill Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I really don't think the signs point to any Aegon / Frey alliance. Remember the brilliant paragraph when Haldon Halfmaester checks out the r-mail inbox at Griffin's Roost? He is delighted to find that the Lannisters have been controlling the North and the Riverlands by means of Houses Bolton and Frey, 'long renowned for treachery and cruelty'.It doesn't make narrative sense that this view will be revised in the aftermath of the Red Wedding. I am quite certain that for the Aegon VI/Connington brigade, Bolton and Frey = irredeemably tainted Lannister stooges.(I do agree though with thelittledragonthatcould - the Freys do still have plenty of allies in their local sphere, eg Lord Vypren went hunting after Lady Stoneheart for them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Pure fanfic. The Freys have the Twins, Riverun and Darry and have houses Charlton, Erenford and Haigh sworn to them as well as marriage alliances with the majority of the Riverlords.The only houses that support the Freys are their own bannermen, that collaborated with them in the Red Wedding. Everyone else lost men and even relatives at the Twins. Of course they hate them.I recommend you rereading Jaime's chapter with the parley at Riverrun. It's indicative of how the Riverlords feel about House Frey. There, Lord Piper declares: "I don’t imply, Frey. I say what I mean straight out, like an honest man. But what would you know of the ways of honest men? You’re a treacherous lying weasel, like all your kin. I’d sooner drink a pint of piss than take the word of any Frey."In the Red Wedding, the Freys killed Lucas Blackwood (son of Lord Tytos) and a Vance. Houses Tully, Blackwood and Mallister continued to stand against the crown after the Robb's murder, and even refused the royal pardon. The Rygers and the Paeges refuse to join the siege of Riverrun. The Freys threatened to hung the heir to Seagard to force his father to surrender. Seriously: the bulk of the riverlords will jump at the first chance to take revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Seriously: the bulk of the riverlords will jump at the first chance to take revenge.No offense but you are mistaking the readers opinions with the actual Lords. You point out the Rygers refusal to join the seige of Riverrun yet 20 years before they were fighting against the Tullys. In this medieval scenario family houses relationships frequently change depending on their own interests. Think of the Freys like the Germans after WWll, some will always hate them but the vast majority will get over it and blame it on the actions of individuals(Walder/Hitler) rather than the people as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerBrightflame Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I can see Aegon joining them. Him and Lord Frey would get along perfectly, both are treacherous upstarts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slender Aimry Hill Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I would say that the Freys still have, apart from their own bannermen and external Lannister help, some credit with the many, many Houses that married into them. Only some, and obviously the extent varies. For example, the Blackwoods are only more horrified that the Freys murdered Lucas despite the marriage alliance. But Lord Lucias Vypren, another Frey good-brother seems to ride about tamely doing Frey bidding, and, given that he was at the Red Wedding yet emerged free and unscathed, might even have been involved. We could call it the Lucas/Lucias divide...and it will vary from family to family.I think, though, that it's a mistake to think Aegon and the Freys would get along just because many readers dislike both of them. Aegon is an idealistic boy and his advisors are carefully presenting him as a new broom - there is no way they'd let him be tarred with the weasels' brush (And they are fully informed about Frey treachery - see above re: Haldon). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 No offense but you are mistaking the readers opinions with the actual Lords. You point out the Rygers refusal to join the seige of Riverrun yet 20 years before they were fighting against the Tullys. In this medieval scenario family houses relationships frequently change depending on their own interests.I'm providing quotes from actual Lords (reread the opinon of Lord Piper, in my last post). Davos, Tyrion, the BwB and many others express disgust at the actions of the Freys. Even Tywin implicitly despises them saying "the blood is on their hands, not mine". Do you think that Lord Blackwood will forgive the murder of his son? Don't you think that the opinions of lord Manderly in the North will be shared by the Riverlords who lost their dear ones?You seem to consider the Red Wedding a casual act of war, and it's not. If House Frey had changed sides, joined the Lannisters, and then killed all of Robb's host in battle, people would notsay that they are cursed. But they won by a wretched betrayal, and dismissing the guest right which is considered sacred in Westeros.Think of the Freys like the Germans after WWll, some will always hate them but the vast majority will get over it and blame it on the actions of individuals(Walder/Hitler) rather than the people as a whole.Think of the Freys like the Nazis after WWII. Everybody hated them, and no one "got over it". Nuremberg trials, Mossad's murders,... Today, in Germany, it's even forbiden to publish the Mein Kampf or display a swastika. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottenAppleFossoway Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 The Frey's are cursed among Gods and men alike for what they did. All of the northern lords except House Bolton (doomed as well) and all of the Riverland lords would turn on them as soon as its feasible to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair's Pantaloons Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I hope they're all dead before Aegon gets there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind84 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 It depends on whether there is a unified Frey house by that point. If Walder dies there is gonna be a free for all for the Lordship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unSonofStannis Posted May 27, 2013 Author Share Posted May 27, 2013 It would be unwise from Aegon's perspective to ally with the Freys. All the Riverlords hate them with passion, and won't join any candidate that supports them. Instead, if Aegon claims that he'll put the Freys to justice, Blackwoods, Mallisters, Pipers and many more will join them. All of them lost relatives in the Red Wedding and will be eager to take revenge.In the eyes of every Westerosi they are accursed in the eyes of the old gods and the new, and the only people that tolerate them are the supporters of the Lannister regime that Aegon is fighting. So the only hope for the Freys is to stand behind Tommen.We don't know exactly what the rest of the Riverlords' attitude toward the Freys are. THe only Riverlords that we encounter after the Red Wedding is Lord Bracken and Lord Blackwood and they didn't even mention the Freys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor's Nancy Boy Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I think they will bend to whoever holds the most power at this point. The Lannisters' days are numbered, as are theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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