Does Tyrion + Sansa seem a logical conclusion ?

[Mladen]

What I find funny is you are the only one telling the joke, and it seems you are the only one laughing at it.

I wouldn`t say he`s the only one... It`s a classic joke, and it`s funny how people still believe Tyrion is man of honor.

[Mladen]

Lovely post Mladen .. as always :) ... In terms of materialistic things it is true that Tyrion's set to gain everything whie Sansa' set to lose everything .. but then @ that point of time .. being bethrothed to Joff , her dad executed , her brother near the death's door ( fair to say .. it wasn't apparent ) at that time .. I think she was actually gettinga better deal of what she could have got behind enemy lines. ..

Thanks. Perhaos she got the better deal, but the point is, Tyrion is the one who got jackpot. Sansa is the noble girl of highest rank, match only by Margaery or Arianne. She is beautiful, mannered, educated accordingly to her status. Basically, Sansa is all you want in that time from a bride to be. Tyrion is someone who was rejected by every House Tywin offered marriage. For him, this is the dream he could never hope for, with prospects of gaining half the Kingdoms.

Towards the often repeated citing that She is Stark, he is a Lannister .... I confess it puts a rather largely restrictive development on a character .. and from what's been seeing of Tyrion at least before the utter rejection from Sansa .. I think he was the best example of the better qualities of the Lannister house . Besides if Tully's & Starks can wed ; Targareyns & Martells , or Targareyns & Dothraki can wed.. what's stopping a Stark & a Lannister ?

Joffrey, Red wedding, and entire conflict of Wo5K. This isn`t about being completely against any sort of relationship between two Houses, but inrecent history there is so many things that go against this union. But it all comes back to one simple fact - they don`t want to be married to one another.

[Propheticverses]

I honestly think Sansa deserves someone better than Tyrion. Sansa is compassionate, caring, etc.. basically has very good traits and tries very hard to do her duty and do what is right. Tyrion on the other hand is a much darker shade of gray. He has whored his entire life, so will most likely continue to do so once wed, he is a heavy drinker, and seems to lead a lifestyle that would make Sansa very unhappy. Tyrion doesn't want a wife or a real relationship, he wants to live in fantasy world where a whore makes him feel special and loved. Sansa, IMO at least, wants the whole 9 yards in a marriage, and a real marriage requires work and time.

Methinks this post is a bit unfair on Tyrion .. especially the whoring part . No one deny's the thing about his whoring activities .. but taken into consideration that he fell in love with the woman he first bedded out of love and that it was turned into a grissly horrific nightmare of a love-struck man that she was ashore .. I doubt Tyrion could be sagacious after that . Ned / Brandon / Bronn would have done something should they have been in that place .. a dwarf .. not so much.

The purists might argue that the holier than thou Sansa would need a virgin man & some such .. and nothing's wrong with that except that in ADWD we know that she's ging to be bethrothed to Harold ( whose already known to pluck a flower or two ) as the saying goes . Sansa's maturing up truly ... and I am sure evidence of that would be forthcoming ... but in many ways .. her road to this maturity have often been dead-ends to many others . ( No her fault .. you say .. and I agree .. after all she's a naive young girl in the midst of afantasy involving true knights & all ) ..

'

Dany's first husband the Khal was proudly procliamed as a barbaric savage involved in many things that might 'dwarf' Tyrion ( lol ) .. but then he seems to be considered as adorable by many fans .. Any Danerys at that time was similar to Sansa in many ways . So why this Dichotomy ... ? :)

[nirolo]

I wouldn`t say he`s the only one... It`s a classic joke, and it`s funny how people still believe Tyrion is man of honor.

Yes. Congratulations. You have found another person who shares your sense of humor.

Some people take it as a joke; others don't. Some might find it funny; others don't. It detracts from the argument.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Dany's first husband the Khal was proudly procliamed as a barbaric savage involved in many things that might 'dwarf' Tyrion ( lol ) .. but then he seems to be considered as adorable by many fans .. Any Danerys at that time was similar to Sansa in many ways . So why this Dichotomy ... ? :)

Start a thread arguing how good a man Khal Drogo was, and I'm pretty sure you'll encounter resistance.

Not that it should matter - even if you think some people misjudge Drogo, that does not magically rob you of your freedom to adequately evaluate Tyrion.

[Propheticverses]

Thanks. Perhaos she got the better deal, but the point is, Tyrion is the one who got jackpot. Sansa is the noble girl of highest rank, match only by Margaery or Arianne. She is beautiful, mannered, educated accordingly to her status. Basically, Sansa is all you want in that time from a bride to be. Tyrion is someone who was rejected by every House Tywin offered marriage. For him, this is the dream he could never hope for, with prospects of gaining half the Kingdoms.

Joffrey, Red wedding, and entire conflict of Wo5K. This isn`t about being completely against any sort of relationship between two Houses, but inrecent history there is so many things that go against this union. But it all comes back to one simple fact - they don`t want to be married to one another.

True that , the entire history lies behind them ,, but then that's no reason for a union to not take place . They don't want to be married to each other ... true ... and for obvious reasons as you pointed out . Yet looking at the merit of the person , I think Tyrion might be abetter option than a Ser Loras or a Harold Hardying .

In fact Aemon Targaeryn themself think highly of him despite knowing that Tyrion's from a Lannister clan whose done the most haunting damage to Aemon Targ himself . If Aemon can look beyond that .. there's no reason why a 'to-be-mature-Sansa' cannot .

Even Ser Garlan of a different house vouches for him .

I m not saying they have to be married .. but I think it would have been better for them .

[Mladen]

Yes. Congratulations. You have found another person who shares your sense of humor.

Some people take it as a joke; others don't. Some might find it funny; others don't. It detracts from the argument.

And it`s amazing how your tone becomes more and more condescending with each post... It`s insulting, and I would ask you not to reply on my posts unless there is actual content in them. Something other than condescending tone...

[Propheticverses]

Start a thread arguing how good a man Khal Drogo was, and I'm pretty sure you'll encounter resistance.

Not that it should matter - even if you think some people misjudge Drogo, that does not magically rob you of your freedom to adequately evaluate Tyrion.

Well said .. the unfortunte thing being .. we evaluate diferent characters on the basis of different yardsticks ... Not an accurate thing .. but it's a pretty common thing :(

[nirolo]

And it`s amazing how your tone becomes more and more condescending with each post... It`s insulting, and I would ask you not to reply on my posts unless there is actual content in them. Something other than condescending tone...

Right...

You are the one calling another person's opinion a "joke".

And I'm condescending for pointing that out...

And BTW, you chose to address that particular post of mine in the first place.

[Mladen]

True that , the entire history lies behind them ,, but then that's no reason for a union to not take place . They don't want to be married to each other ... true ... and for obvious reasons as you pointed out . Yet looking at the merit of the person , I think Tyrion might be abetter option than a Ser Loras or a Harold Hardying .

In fact Aemon Targaeryn themself think highly of him despite knowing that Tyrion's from a Lannister clan whose done the most haunting damage to Aemon Targ himself . If Aemon can look beyond that .. there's no reason why a 'to-be-mature-Sansa' cannot .

Even Ser Garlan of a different house vouches for him .

I m not saying they have to be married .. but I think it would have been better for them .

Who can tell whether Tyrion is better than Harry? For all we know, Harry is a decent boy, who will treat Sansa kindly, and respect her no matter what. We know nothing of him to say for sure that Tyrion is a better man than he is. Because now, it isn`t that difficult to be a better man than Tyrion.

`To be mature` Sansa doesn`t have to accept Tyrion for her husband to show maturity. If that`s what this is all about, then it`s completely wrong to assume that Sansa`s development would be sealed with accepting Tyrion. It doesn`t work that way.

Yes, Garlan vouches for him on one wedding, and most likely, helps to frame him on another... True gallant knight. Also that was courtesy because Sansa was almost crying, and he was just playing polite.

For Tyrion maybe, for Sansa, the best thing is that they annul their marriage.

Right...

You are the one calling another person's opinion a "joke".

And I'm condescending for pointing that out...

And BTW, you chose to address that particular post of mine in the first place.

No, I was agreeing with POV. And I replied because you attacked another member.

[Groat]

Methinks this post is a bit unfair on Tyrion .. especially the whoring part . No one deny's the thing about his whoring activities .. but taken into consideration that he fell in love with the woman he first bedded out of love and that it was turned into a grissly horrific nightmare of a love-struck man that she was ashore .. I doubt Tyrion could be sagacious after that . Ned / Brandon / Bronn would have done something should they have been in that place .. a dwarf .. not so much.

I'm not denying Tyrion's motivation for his habbits, but I just feel like Sansa deserves better. His whoring is only 1 behavior that I think would not appeal to Sansa. He drinks a lot, he spends his time dicing with sellswords etc...

The purists might argue that the holier than thou Sansa would need a virgin man & some such .. and nothing's wrong with that except that in ADWD we know that she's ging to be bethrothed to Harold ( whose already known to pluck a flower or two ) as the saying goes . Sansa's maturing up truly ... and I am sure evidence of that would be forthcoming ... but in many ways .. her road to this maturity have often been dead-ends to many others . ( No her fault .. you say .. and I agree .. after all she's a naive young girl in the midst of afantasy involving true knights & all ) ..

'

Dany's first husband the Khal was proudly procliamed as a barbaric savage involved in many things that might 'dwarf' Tyrion ( lol ) .. but then he seems to be considered as adorable by many fans .. Any Danerys at that time was similar to Sansa in many ways . So why this Dichotomy ... ? :)

Harry has fathered 2 bastards. A male teenager being a little promiscuous is a big leap from a grown man preferring whores and lies to real relationships. As for Drogo and Dany... I just feel like Sansa deserves something better than Tyrion. I'm sure she could find a way to make it work, like Dany, but I don't want her to be in a position where she "tries to find a way to make it work".

Also, Drogo gets a lot of respect because A) he's a badass who never lost a fight (Tyrion can't claim this) and B ) He went against some of the Dothraki norms with his treatment of Dany, and showed a supprisingly gentle and progressive attitude, considering his culture.

[nirolo]

No, I was agreeing with POV. And I replied because you attacked another member.

Yes. You are agreeing with someone for calling another poster's opinion a "joke". Thus you are defending someone who absolutely should not be defended.

And those who show no respect for the opinions of others deserve none in return.

[Propheticverses]

I'm not denying Tyrion's motivation for his habbits, but I just feel like Sansa deserves better. His whoring is only 1 behavior that I think would not appeal to Sansa. He drinks a lot, he spends his time dicing with sellswords etc...

Harry has fathered 2 bastards. A male teenager being a little promiscuous is a big leap from a grown man preferring whores and lies to real relationships. As for Drogo and Dany... I just feel like Sansa deserves something better than Tyrion. I'm sure she could find a way to make it work, like Dany, but I don't want her to be in a position where she "tries to find a way to make it work".

Also, Drogo gets a lot of respect because A) he's a badass who never lost a fight (Tyrion can't claim this) and B ) He went against some of the Dothraki norms with his treatment of Dany, and showed a supprisingly gentle and progressive attitude, considering his culture.

lol .. Claiming Drogo gets respect beacuse he fights & Tyrion does not is kind of hilarious actually . You surely put them on a level playing field here !! :D .. The badass never lost a fight .. but lost to a blood cut & a witch :D . Also , Tyrion's done a lot of Bad-ass stuff too .... even more than Drogo ( quantitatively as well as qualitatively )

Additionally ,. being good to one's wife is not against Dothraki customs !!!! Credit where it's due . Khal Drogo was a unique man and we consider his pros outweighing his cons . !! Sadly I don't see many doing that with Tyrion .

[Leto]

And those who show no respect for the opinions of others deserve none in return.

Everyone deserves respect. The post you replied to was condasending but it's usually better to point it out in a civil manner :)

[Lord Freypie]

A logical conclusion would be Sansa seduced by Littlefinger and Tyrion dying of Greyscale somewhere in Essos.

But I think Grmm isn't going to be logical and will save both somehow.

Out of that, only time will tell.

An ideal character developpment conclusion would be Tyrion ending with some intelligent adult woman able to appreciate someone for his wits, he would consider as an equal, and Sansa ending with someone deeply honorable and good if not the beautiful knights of her childhood dreams.

Them happily reuniting would imply Sansa becoming intelligent and adult enough, and Tyrion honorable and good enough. Two things their respectives anti-fans would find unlikely.

I don't see scenarios at this stage where they stay in a forced marriage, although imagining the Stark return to power while Tyrion become lord of Casterly Rock, they may find a reason to stay officially married for political reasons, it's unlikely as well.

[Aleesha]

What I don't like about Tyrion/Sansa as a couple is the fact that Sansa is expected to "mature" and grow out of her wish for a handsome husband, not see Tyrion as a Lannister and accept him for who he is. But at the same time, what has Tyrion done to deserve Sansa's love? What has he done to prove himself to her? Tyrion doesn't even understand her properly. He thinks she is still stuck in her dreams of knighthood and chivalry and underestimates her intelligence. This relationship was a disaster from the get-go.

[nirolo]

Everyone deserves respect. The post you replied to was condasending but it's usually better to point it out in a civil manner :)

You are right. I should have done it in a more civil manner.

Though for me, respect is earned rather than a given.

ETA: Civility on the other hand should be a given -- I think this is what you are admonishing me for, and you are absolutely right for doing so :)

[greensleeves]

Methinks this post is a bit unfair on Tyrion .. especially the whoring part . No one deny's the thing about his whoring activities .. but taken into consideration that he fell in love with the woman he first bedded out of love and that it was turned into a grissly horrific nightmare of a love-struck man that she was ashore .. I doubt Tyrion could be sagacious after that . Ned / Brandon / Bronn would have done something should they have been in that place .. a dwarf .. not so much.

The purists might argue that the holier than thou Sansa would need a virgin man & some such .. and nothing's wrong with that except that in ADWD we know that she's ging to be bethrothed to Harold ( whose already known to pluck a flower or two ) as the saying goes . Sansa's maturing up truly ... and I am sure evidence of that would be forthcoming ... but in many ways .. her road to this maturity have often been dead-ends to many others . ( No her fault .. you say .. and I agree .. after all she's a naive young girl in the midst of afantasy involving true knights & all ) ..

Sansa isn't the one who would need to mature for the relationship to work... Tyrion is. He has major issues in dealing with women. His reliance on whores instead of seeking out meaningful relationships is symptomatic of these issues.

Is this a result of past trauma? Yes... but that doesn't make those issues go away.

[Mladen]

Yes. You are agreeing with someone for calling another poster's opinion a "joke". Thus you are defending someone who absolutely should not be defended.

And those who show no respect for the opinions of others deserve none in return.

What I did was agreeing with someone in the opinion, not the tone, and not even in what might be percieved as insult. I am not defending anyone, but when you do the same to someone who haven`t said insulting word to you, you create a problem. I do find quite interesting when people say Tyrion is man of honor, especially after DWD. It seems that people skipped a big part of Tyrion in that book

No one here can tell me I have no respect for opinions of others, but anyone can tell you I am opinionated. I don`t hide that, as much as I don`t like people calling expression of my opinion as an isult or attack, when clearly it isn`t.

You are right. I should have done it in a more civil manner.

Though for me, respect is earned rather than a given.

Then you should learn how to earn it too.

Now, back to subject. Enough with this tragic derailment

An ideal character developpment conclusion would be Tyrion ending with some intelligent adult woman able to appreciate someone for his wits, he would consider as an equal, and Sansa ending with someone deeply honorable and good if not the beautiful knights of her childhood dreams.

Them happily reuniting would imply Sansa becoming intelligent and adult enough, and Tyrion honorable and good enough. Two things their respectives anti-fans would find unlikely.

I don't see scenarios at this stage where they stay in a forced marriage, although imagining the Stark return to power while Tyrion become lord of Casterly Rock, they may find a reason to stay officially married for political reasons, it's unlikely as well.

I find Sansa intelligent, but I don`t want to see her with Tyrion. I want to see that chapter ended. And I also don`t think that accepting Tyrion would bring anything good for Sansa`s character.

[nirolo]

Then you should learn how to earn it too.

Meh. People see me for what I am.