total1402 Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 No. There was a shitload of foreshadowing that Aegon, or rather an 'Aegon' would appear in the story. I was surprised when I read that (f)Aegon was alive, but in hindsight, the signs were there.Such as? And don't list the babes face was mashed up as foreshadowing. I am talking real symbolism and hints by characters like Jon Snows parentage for instance. Or Danys dragon dreams or House of Undying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
total1402 Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 Doran Martell was plotting to bring back the Targaryens from the very beginning. He's just very, very patient. He waited until a crucial point in the Wo5K to make his move when the Iron Throne was perceived to be weak enough for a Targ attack to take.Then why not have the Arriane crap with Myrcella take place earlier or have another scheme to start a war during the Wo5K to introduce them to us earlier? Then we don't have them clogging up the second act with their intros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lissa Nymeros Martell Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 OH...I feel stupid. I guess that's what happens when you read the first line of a post and decide to respond... :leaving: :agree: I'm glad you asked! I was starting to wonder why the Unsullied" have such an attitude towards the Dornish. :dunce: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Because the plot took a long time to appear. They were stuck in traffic while there was a flood of pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Such as? And don't list the babes face was mashed up as foreshadowing. I am talking real symbolism and hints by characters like Jon Snows parentage for instance. Or Danys dragon dreams or House of Undying.The mummer's dragon. The black dragon sign that washed back up and came back rusted red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kephv Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Dorne was always important, as should have been obvious even from the start: they're one of the seven kingdoms and Elia was Rhaegar's wife. Why they didn't appear earlier is also clear from book 3 on: it wasn't the right time to make a move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterJack Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 GRRM needed a new plot for Westeros since Dany doesnt not want to obey his will and now wants to stay in Meereen forever. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
total1402 Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 The mummer's dragon. The black dragon sign that washed back up and came back rusted red.The mummers dragon happens in ADWD like one, maybe two chapters before he is introduced.Also very late in the plot and ambiguous. It refers to the Golden Company, who served the black dragon, coming back serving the red rusted one of the Targs after the age has corroded them so that their own leaders are all dead. This is an ambiguous reference since the GC could have just served Dany and fulfilled the metaphor adequetly. It does not require or hint at Aegon specifically unless you ascribe to him being a secret blackfyre; which we don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dornishman's Wife Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 The mummers dragon happens in ADWD like one, maybe two chapters before he is introduced.Appears first in the House of the Undying though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
total1402 Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 Dorne was always important, as should have been obvious even from the start: they're one of the seven kingdoms and Elia was Rhaegar's wife. Why they didn't appear earlier is also clear from book 3 on: it wasn't the right time to make a move.It still isn't the right time to make a move apparently...Could he not have kept them out the plot longer if this was Martins reasoning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
total1402 Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 Appears first in the House of the Undying though.Whatever. I just see him as another big reason why Dany isn't going to be in Westeros for a long time. Martin needs to set this Rand al Thor wannabee up on the Game of Thrones ladder.Plus even with hints he does come in very late even though he is incredibly important to the plot now. More so than any non-pov character since Robert Baratheon. His arrival will shake everyone in the south to the core and they will all be moving in step with what he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valandui Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 It's probably due to the series' stretch marks. His introduction fairly late may have made more sense in the trilogy originally planned, but as the story expanded and everything got bogged down in details, now it kind of seems like "Oh yeah, here's this other guy. Yep, he's been here the whole time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Joker Of FunLand Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Doran Martell was plotting to bring back the Targaryens from the very beginning. He's just very, very patient. He waited until a crucial point in the Wo5K to make his move when the Iron Throne was perceived to be weak enough for a Targ attack to take.Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lissa Nymeros Martell Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I like the Dornish and their bloodlines have intermarried with the Targaryens more than most of the other houses IIRC. At least intermarried with the highborn Targaryens. I'd wagger if there's going to be a secret Targaryens it's going to be tied to the Martell storyline somehow.As for Dany, I actually think she should stay in Essos. It's a much more profitable area. She's never been to Westeros and honestly the realm is at war, the crown is broke, and winter is coming. Other than bragging rights what would she gain from conquering Westeros?Let Aegon have the broken kingdom. The Mother of dragons can take the rest :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Yet again you're complaining that GRRM doesn't write it to your specifications.Varys and Illyrio's overall plotting, as someone mentioned, has been in play since the first book. The mummer's dragon vision has been around since the second book. The Dornish have been mentioned very early on and we did see Oberyn and get a feel for the country and its politics and culture there, even if we didn't see it until book 4.Show viewers can get used to it just like the rest of us. Apart from it being offensive, it also ignores the fact that the Dornish and the Martells have been name-dropped before, including the inclusion of Myrcella going down for her marriage pact. And oh yeah, I'm sure that show viewers are going to really, totally not like a complete mysterious badass like Oberyn Martell.If Martin "wastes" your time so much, you're free to walk away from the series and stop having your time wasted. No one's stopping you. Bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techelles Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Read something else, please. The bitching is unbearable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 TBH I haven't read the series in almost a year and even tried putting my books away and out of sight as a bit of symbolism so that I might forget. Maybe after the third series I will. I would love to wash my hands of you personally but it doesn't work like that.For the sake of all of us, I hope you succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Whatever. I just see him as another big reason why Dany isn't going to be in Westeros for a long time. Martin needs to set this Rand al Thor wannabee up on the Game of Thrones ladder.Plus even with hints he does come in very late even though he is incredibly important to the plot now. More so than any non-pov character since Robert Baratheon. His arrival will shake everyone in the south to the core and they will all be moving in step with what he does.So basically you're pretty much just ignoring the signs and foreshadowing?Ok, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterJack Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 well, in the show they talk about Dorne only once:Myrcella is being sent there. So yeah the viewer will be a little shocked about the RedViper/Doran/Arianne but not a lot.Their introduction will be used to explain the "viewers" about of lot of things D&D didnt bothered to explain in the show, so fAegon will be easier for them to accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterJack Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 So basically you're pretty much just ignoring the signs and foreshadowing?Ok, then.When you introduce a new main characters out of nowhere but Hints and ForeShadowing.... It is all well and cool for us on the forum who combined 100000 brains to find every little hints, but the normal reader is kind of lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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