Jon Snow's Early Timeline assuming R + L = J

[FooFighterDDS]

I always thought, and I may be wrong, Semmelweiss was trying to prevent puerparal fever to the mother. Mother to child transmission was another story.

[Ygrain]

I always thought, and I may be wrong, Semmelweiss was trying to prevent puerparal fever to the mother. Mother to child transmission was another story.

Ah, you're right, I didn't realize that.

[Rooghar Targaryen]

If Jon was moved to Starfell before Eddard arrived, at least one of the Kingsguards would have left with Jon to protect him (Royal Blood). Since all 3 of the original KG that were left at the TOJ were at the TOJ when Eddard arrived, It would suggest that baby Jon was still in the Tower.

[Ygrain]

If Jon was moved to Starfell before Eddard arrived, at least one of the Kingsguards would have left with Jon to protect him (Royal Blood). Since all 3 of the original KG that were left at the TOJ were at the TOJ when Eddard arrived, It would suggest that baby Jon was still in the Tower.

Not if they thought that secrecy was absolutely vital to his survival, and they would keep their vows to protect the king by not being with him so as not to reveal his existence. - This, however, would be just a minor variation, as under both scenarios, Jon would be legit.

[Rooghar Targaryen]

K, i have a two questions for the timeline.

So when Rhaegar abducted/ran away with Lyanna, did Arthur Dayne and Oswell Whent go with him? If not, when did they meet up with him because they were with Rhaegar at the TOJ when Gerold Hightower found Rhaegar.

How did Eddard find out that Lyanna was at the Tower of Joy?

Eddard went from Battle of Trident -> King's Landing -> Storm's End -> Tower of Joy. I would assume he somehow found out about Lyanna's location after lifting the Siege at Storm's End and not at KL because Eddard would have gone directly to the TOJ as soon as he could and let someone else deal with Storm's End. Rhaegar returned to King's Landing before going the Battle at the Trident, so he could have told some people Lyanna's location like maybe Barriston Selmy or Jaime Lannister, but if they knew Eddard would have found out in KL and left for the TOJ right away instead of going to Storm's End.

[The guy from the Vale]

1) The App confirms Whent and Dayne were with Rhaegar during the abduction.

2) We don't know. Speculation is usually directed at Ashara, Rhaegar, or Brandon's squire (don't remember the name).

[Prince of the Green]

1) The App confirms Whent and Dayne were with Rhaegar during the abduction.

2) We don't know. Speculation is usually directed at Ashara, Rhaegar, or Brandon's squire (don't remember the name).

Brandon's squire was Ethan Glover, the only survivor of Aerys's Stark-B-Que

[Rooghar Targaryen]

Eddard's companions were Howland Reed, Lord Willam Dustin, Ethan Glover, Martyn Cassel, Theo Wull, and Ser Mark Ryswell. Everyone was busy doing battle during Robert's Rebellion except Ethan Glover. Ethan Glover was in the dungeons of King's Landing because Brandon Stark's squire when Brandon and his party were arrested for threatening the life of the crown Prince. The fathers of Brandon and his companions were called to King's Landing to answer for their sons' crimes. The fathers, as well as the sons, were all executed by King Aerys II, although Ethan was not. Ethan Glover was freed during the sack of King's Landing.

Seems kind of odd everyone was killed but him. Strange, but I have no idea if it means something.

Pure speculation: So a raven from Arthur Dayne to Head of House Dayne/Ashara Dayne says that they need a wet nurse at the Tower of Joy. House Dayne sends Wylla to Tower of Joy. Starfall gets a raven from KL saying the war is over and Robert is King and the Targaryens are dead. Ashara sends Eddard a raven, since they now each other from dancing at Harrenhall, saying that her brother is at the TOJ and to do him no harm and just tell him to come home since the war is over. Eddard goes to TOJ and then most everyone dies. Eddard, Howland Reed, baby Jon and Wylla return Arthur's sword to Starfall. Ashara blames herself for her brother's death and commits suicide.

[The guy from the Vale]

Brandon's squire was Ethan Glover, the only survivor of Aerys's Stark-B-Que

Thx. I still remembered his role, just had a blackout on the name :)

[Lady of Castamere]

Thanks for the good timeline! This clarified things so much. :bowdown:

[Rooghar Targaryen]

Questions

1. Where was Lyanna when she was abducted/ran away with Rhaegar?

2. How did Eddard find out to go to the TOJ? Who told him Lyanna's location?

3. Were there more people at the TOJ other than Lyanna and the 3 KG? Wylla?

4. What was the battle with the KG like? How did Howland Reed save Eddard's life?

5. How did Jon get to Winterfell? Did Eddard carry him all the way or was he sent separately on a ship possibly with Howland Reed?

6. Why did Ashara Dayne apparently commit suicide?

updated timeline with more details btw

[The guy from the Vale]

1. We don't know. Guess: Harrenhal

2. We don't know. Guess: Ashara

3. We don't know, but Ned speaks of "them" finding him, and the presence of a midwife/nurse wouldn't be surprising considering Lyanna's condition.

4. We don't know. Guess: With a net.

5. We don't know. Guess: sent Howland and baby to Winterfell and went to KL before.

6. We don't know. Guess: involvement of the death of her brother.

But you're asking the right questions ;)

[Rooghar Targaryen]

The WOIAF app states "When Eddard returns to the north, he is accompanied by a wet nurse and a baby that he claims is his bastard son, and he installs the child in the castle before Catelyn arrives with his legitimate son, Robb."

So that would mean Wylla was accompanying Jon and Eddard when they arrived at Winterfell. This would suggest she traveled with Eddard all the way from Starfall to Winterfell. Assuming Winterfell has there own wet nurse(s), Wylla was probably sent on a boat back to Starfall soon after arriving. She is back in Starfall as a wet nurse for Edric Dayne 3 years later.

No revelation or new info, just interesting that Wylla went all the way up to Winterfell. I didn't know that before looking at the app.

[Ygrain]

The WOIAF app states "When Eddard returns to the north, he is accompanied by a wet nurse and a baby that he claims is his bastard son, and he installs the child in the castle before Catelyn arrives with his legitimate son, Robb."

So that would mean Wylla was accompanying Jon and Eddard when they arrived at Winterfell. This would suggest she traveled with Eddard all the way from Starfall to Winterfell. Assuming Winterfell has there own wet nurse(s), Wylla was probably sent on a boat back to Starfall soon after arriving. She is back in Starfall as a wet nurse for Edric Dayne 3 years later.

No revelation or new info, just interesting that Wylla went all the way up to Winterfell. I didn't know that before looking at the app.

Possible but not necessarily true. Ned could have sent Wylla, Jon and HR ahead to the Neck or so, and pick them up on the way, with a new wetnurse already. Thus, no-one would have the slightest idea where Jon came from.

[Federico]

Is the ASOIAF App considered cannon, or can its info be incorrect?

[corbon]

Is the ASOIAF App considered cannon, or can its info be incorrect?

Most users like to think so.

Its defintely put together by very smart people who understand the facts and nuances very well.

And GRRM 'vetted' it.

OTOH, its known to have had some inaccuracies and there is literally zero chance that GRRM could have had the time to go over every single little detail and nuance in his "vetting". He famously relies on other people at times to remember such things as character's eye colours.

I consider it infinitely more reliable than the wiki and highly likely to be correct on any particualr aspect, but not, strictly speaking canon, at least as canon as the books themselves and the SSMs.

Others disagree, sometimes violently (metaphorically speaking!)

Referring to the current state of the OP:

- Lyanna doesn't actually become pregnant until well after the rebellion has begun - it lasts a year and Jon is born right at the end, maybe even a few weeks after the end.

- Brandon was already at Riverrun in the lead up to the 'abduction' but departed on a 'short errand' just before it happened.

- Brandon didn't demand the return of Lyanna, just that Rhaegar come out and die. There is no evidence he even mentioned Lyanna.

- Brandon actually got a trial, and it was Rickard that requested it be a trial by combat and who named himself as Brandon's champion.

- There is no indication that the Martells were 'reluctant' to raise banners, only that their support was perhaps not as strong as it could have been.

- Wylla was probably at ToJ. "They" found Ned and Lyanna, a wetnurse is highly likely to have been needed anyway and would need to be prepared beforehand, and Ned somehow has to keep baby Jon alive between ToJ and Starfall.

- Jon and wetnurse appear to have travelled at least part of the way seperately from Ned. There is no indication Ned was there when Catelyn arrived, just the baby and the wetnurse, and also Ned reconciles with Robert, but yet Robert has never met or seen Wylla. It seems most likely then that Ned did not have Jon or Wylla with him when he reconciles with Robert.

- Some time around 287 Jon Connington is introduced to 5 year old fAegon, by Varys/Illyrio.

[DrunkSister]

If Ned intended for Wylla to be considered Jon's mother she couldn't have been the wetnurse that went to Winterfell. Nope nope nope, Ned is not stupid.

• Catelyn would have been doubly insulted.
  
• If people knew what she looks like and Jon turns out not to look like her this would cause problems.
  
• People might notice W&N don't act like former lovers.
  
• Ashara plan B falls through...
  

All of which can be avoided by hiring another wet nurse - and it solves the hurdle of Jon remembering being a babe in arms when last winter ended: his wetnurse was from the South and went back there not when he was weaned but when winter ended and sea became safe to travel. Otherwise he has been breastfed almost as long as Sweet Robin. :drunk:

[Ser Pollo Loco]

If Ned intended for Wylla to be considered Jon's mother she couldn't have been the wetnurse that went to Winterfell. Nope nope nope, Ned is not stupid.

• Catelyn would have been doubly insulted.

If people knew what she looks like and Jon turns out not to look like her this would cause problems.

People might notice W&N don't act like former lovers.

Ashara plan B falls through...

All of which can be avoided by hiring another wet nurse - and it solves the hurdle of Jon remembering being a babe in arms when last winter ended: his wetnurse was from the South and went back there not when he was weaned but when winter ended and sea became safe to travel. Otherwise he has been breastfed almost as long as Sweet Robin. :drunk:

I don't think he told anybody other than Robert

[ghost of Harrenhall]

I always assumed that Lyanna was older then Ned? am I wrong