Tommens Cat Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 dragons dont seem any smarter then direwolves. more physically gifted, sure. but the direwolves are intelligent. they sense things before they happen and can make decisions, understand human tounge (not that dragons can't, i just dont think they can at as high of level) and direwolves can be warged easily. dragons should be wargable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I'm not sure. It's one of those SSM's that gets thrown around fairly often (along with dragons having low intelligence) but I've never seen the source. It's actually on my list of SSMs to search for and I look for these things in my spare time. I haven't put in all that great in effort in searching these particular ones, but maybe group effort will get us closer to finding whether or not it exists? This topic comes up enough that I think it would be beneficial to have a go-to response.I usually don`t read often SSMs, I tend to use only book canon. If I find some interview, I quote it, and that`s that. Remember the fiasco with Jeyne I had? It seems we have so many unreliable sources on the board. If you need help for search, to divide SSMs and search it thouroughly, PM me... I`ll gladly help.Varamyr says that ALL animals can be warged. It is his teacher that tells him some SHOULDNT be. Abomination!With a good reason why not. I don`t know whether that meant for direwolves and dragons, or just `normal` animals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo Attano Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I think it would be exceedingly difficult to warg dragons, if not impossible. Varamyr - who was third only to Bran & Jon (that we know of) in terms of skinchanging power - was only just capable of warging shadowcats and bears. Even with humans, Bran has so far only done a mentally challenged person. Dragons in ASoIaF may not be terribly intelligent, but they are by far the most powerful magical animals (not counting Others or CoTF as 'animals'), and they are the biggest (when fully grown), and it seems like they have exceedingly high willpower. Varamyr also says that the tameness of an animal affects how easy it is to warg (dogs are easiest, cats are hardest), and it seems like that dragons are the wildest and most un-tameable (with one obvious exception) creatures, which will make them doubly hard to warg. In conclusion, I think its highly unlikely. I think we can pretty much discount Jon from warging dragons, given that Bran is far, far more powerful than him, and it will be unlikely for even Bran to warg them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Since they are more magical in nature, it's possible that not all skinchangers can do it. If George wants to write a situation where only First Men blood + blood of the dragon combos can, it won't really be a surprise to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manting Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 I would say Dragons are certainly very wargable. They are not that wild - they have been ridden by Valarians for hundreds and thousands of years. They are essentially domesticated when you think about it in the long term. They were ridden in the freehold. The new dragons are wild because Dany does not know how to properly train them. So they are wild animals BUT they have been domesticated for a huge span of time in the past. Dire wolves have never been domesticated. Neither have shadow cats or bears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBlood Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 With a good reason why not. I don`t know whether that meant for direwolves and dragons, or just `normal` animals...I dont think I would lump the 2 into one category... Dragons are magical. Direwolves aren't really magical, just that they were believed to be extinct.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Dragons are supposedly only tamed by magic and horns (?), but that's not needed with those other animals.Maybe only Targ wargs can skinchange into them, or greenseers, or one who is both, or just both... There's enough freedom for the author to come up with his own rules, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g.o.d Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I can't see why not especially since the dragons aren't that smart.this. if it depends only on animal inteligence, then Bran would have no problem warging a dragon. Direwolf is smarter than a dragon from what we've already read and seen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommens Cat Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I dont think I would lump the 2 into one category... Dragons are magical. Direwolves aren't really magical, just that they were believed to be extinct..direwolves arent magical?what makes a dragon magical? they breathe fire, thats physical. there is metabolism that results in the dragons flesh able to withstand higher temps but thats not magic that biology. so if direwolves are magic so are dragons, if not....dragons cant be. direwolves love cold, dragons love warmth. they are almost opposites but along the same 'magical' lines IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBlood Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 direwolves arent magical?what makes a dragon magical? they breathe fire, thats physical. there is metabolism that results in the dragons flesh able to withstand higher temps but thats not magic that biology. so if direwolves are magic so are dragons, if not....dragons cant be.direwolves love cold, dragons love warmth. they are almost opposites but along the same 'magical' lines IMONothing I can find says that direwolves are magical.. This is from the WikiA direwolf is a close relative of the wolf, but larger and stronger. A grey direwolf in a white field is the banner of House Stark. They are named after the real world direwolves, Pleistocene megafauna which were larger than modern wolves (but not as large as portrayed in the books). According to GRRM direwolves are an extinct animal Beyond the Wall, as they are a very large and dangerous predator, and people have probably hunted them out. [1] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Idiots Lantern Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I doubt it will be as simple as "warg into a dragon," just because dragons, unlike direwolves or shadowcats, are MAGIC. I imagine Bloodraven trying to warg an approaching dragon...and his wooden skin bursting into flames. Dragons are hot. Dragons are "fire made flesh." You want to go walking around in that flesh, and you'd better be ready for it to get really, really, really hot.Plus, there's no foreshadowing that warging into a dragon is going to be an important part of anything. The ultimate warg, the impossible feat that is supposed to be impossible for any warg, no matter how strong, is a HUMAN.I predict Bran becoming strong enough to warg a human at the pivotal moment will be much more important then it being as easy as a warg jumping into a dragon. what makes a dragon magical? they breathe fire, thats physical.No it's not, because no actual living creature on earth can do that. It's impossible for a living animal to breathe fire without magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommens Cat Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Nothing I can find says that direwolves are magical.. This is from the WikiA direwolf is a close relative of the wolf, but larger and stronger. A grey direwolf in a white field is the banner of House Stark. They are named after the real world direwolves, Pleistocene megafauna which were larger than modern wolves (but not as large as portrayed in the books). According to GRRM direwolves are an extinct animal Beyond the Wall, as they are a very large and dangerous predator, and people have probably hunted them out. [1]hmmm. i just read the wiki about dragons and it does explicitly say they are magical, because after they went extinct the season got more screwed up (the only point i found that relates to magic and not biology.)....but, direwolves coming back directly correlated with magic returning to the world (the were around again before dragons hatched with dany) and bran started using magic before the dragons even came back. so i think the wiki just mentions dragons as magical, but not the fact that direwolves are just as magical. maybe an issue with the wiki? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g.o.d Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 being able to sense forthcoming massacre (RW), or being connect to person, or sense a death one their own (Lady), or see one of their own hunting with other wolves (Nymeria) seems pretty magical to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I dont think I would lump the 2 into one category... Dragons are magical. Direwolves aren't really magical, just that they were believed to be extinct..Direwolves have some special abilities. It`s not without reason why direwolves crossed path with Starks and awaken their warging abilities... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBlood Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I doubt it will be as simple as "warg into a dragon," just because dragons, unlike direwolves or shadowcats, are MAGIC. I imagine Bloodraven trying to warg an approaching dragon...and his wooden skin bursting into flames. Dragons are hot. Dragons are "fire made flesh." You want to go walking around in that flesh, and you'd better be ready for it to get really, really, really hot.Plus, there's no foreshadowing that warging into a dragon is going to be an important part of anything. The ultimate warg, the impossible feat that is supposed to be impossible for any warg, no matter how strong, is a HUMAN.I predict Bran becoming strong enough to warg a human at the pivotal moment will be much more important then it being as easy as a warg jumping into a dragon.No it's not, because no actual living creature on earth can do that. It's impossible for a living animal to breathe fire without magic.He has warged Hodor twice.. Once momentarily the 2nd time to get them into the cave... Oh yea a third time to explore the cave... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommens Cat Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Direwolves have some special abilities. It`s not without reason why direwolves crossed path with Starks and awaken their warging abilities...i agree. there is more direct evidence of magic in dragons. but looking critically into direwolves shows they are connected to magic as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g.o.d Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 i agree. there is more direct evidence of magic in dragons. but looking critically into direwolves shows they are connected to magic as well.+ they're smarter than dragons. I like dragons, but they're only fire breating flying lizards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Idiots Lantern Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 He has warged Hodor twice.. Once momentarily the 2nd time to get them into the cave... Oh yea a third time to explore the cave...I know. And Hodor is a simple-minded human. This is why I say Bran's ability to warg into a human is going to be much more important. It's what he's building up to. Warging a dragon is, somehow, not. i agree. there is more direct evidence of magic in dragons. but looking critically into direwolves shows they are connected to magic as well.At best, the Direwolf connection would be indirect. Direwolves are more reflections and focuses for Stark magic, rather then magical beasts themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBlood Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 hmmm. i just read the wiki about dragons and it does explicitly say they are magical, because after they went extinct the season got more screwed up (the only point i found that relates to magic and not biology.)....but, direwolves coming back directly correlated with magic returning to the world (the were around again before dragons hatched with dany) and bran started using magic before the dragons even came back. so i think the wiki just mentions dragons as magical, but not the fact that direwolves are just as magical. maybe an issue with the wiki?I would say the fact that the Starks found them on that particular day in that particular spot south of the wall was significant... Maybe BR sent them there or some other force intervened, or whatever. But I can't agree with the animal itself being magical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Idiots Lantern Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 + they're smarter than dragons.We don't know how smart dragons are. How smart do you need to be if you're a dragon? I mean, you're already on the top of the food chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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