Skinchanging a Dragon

[manting]

Varamyr talks about how a warg can skinchange with any beast that flies, swims, walks or crawls or something like that. He also is the strongest skinchanger North of the Wall and he says Jon is stronger. Could a skinchanger (in this case Jon) skinchange into a Dragon? It would be a great way to control them. Thoughts?

[Thor Odinson]

I'm guessing Bran will end up skinchanging one of the dragons, while Jon rides a second.

[Mladen]

Dragons are really resilient to warging, and it needs a powerful skinchanger to do that... Bran is obvious choice, but I doubt it`ll be that simple.

[manting]

What are you basing that "resistant to warging" info on? I havent read anything that even remotely touches on the subject.

[Winterz]

Dragons are really resilient to warging, and it needs a powerful skinchanger to do that... Bran is obvious choice, but I doubt it`ll be that simple.

This. It will take a considerable amount of practice at warging and as of now, Bran isn't ready. In fact, it could kill him if he tried.

[Dr. Pepper]

Dragons are really resilient to warging, and it needs a powerful skinchanger to do that... Bran is obvious choice, but I doubt it`ll be that simple.

I'm also wondering what you are basing this on. Is it from an SSM?

[manting]

Bran was able to Warg with Hodor and it didnt drive him or hodor mad - he does this on numerous occasions. When Varamyr does it the spearwife goes mad and claws out her eyes and shit. So Bran can warg into a person (a "damaged one like Hodor) easily with no ill effects. How much harder could a dragon be?

[Mladen]

I'm also wondering what you are basing this on. Is it from an SSM?

I think somewhere is said(most likely in SSM) that dragons, as magical creatures aren`t that easy to warg.

[The Great Walrus]

I think somewhere is said(most likely in SSM) that dragons, as magical creatures aren`t that easy to warg.

Isn't the difficulty of warging a creature based mostly on the intelligence and willpower of said creature?

[WhiteWalder]

I think somewhere is said(most likely in SSM) that dragons, as magical creatures aren`t that easy to warg.

This, Since we don't really have any information to rely upon, personally I would think that dragons are an exception since they are creatures of magic.

There are also other ways to look at it: size and intelligence

Varamyr had trouble warging the bear. It hated and fought him - was this due to size?

Varamyr had great difficutly warging the spearwife and failed. Was the fail due to intelligence, or did his body die before he could subdue her?

Either way you look at it, a dragon is more than likely intelligent and definitely huge, so it would take a very powerful warg.

[Roadside Rose]

Quoting someone from another thread on dragon warging Can dragons be warged?

Don't see why not.

In fact, there's fan speculation, based on a comment Tyrion makes, that the Valyrians may have avoided Westeros because of its skinchangers.

If this is true, then I think its very likely that dragons can be warged.

[manting]

There are also other ways to look at it: size and intelligence

Varamyr had trouble warging the bear. It hated and fought him - was this due to size?

I thought the bear hated him because he would ride it. I could be wrong on that. Dire wolves are pretty huge and so is Borroq's boar - so size doesnt really seem to be an issue. I think will or "spirit" might be the answer. When Varamyr skinchanges the spear wife he fails and she goes mad. She possessed a strong will. When Bran skinchanges Hodor - Hodor does not possess a strong will (but hes REALLY big) So I dont think size is a factor

[manting]

[

If this is true, then I think its very likely that dragons can be warged.

I read the qoute and there is ZERO evidence of the qoute having anything to do with Wargs. I believe dragons can be warged based on what Varamyr says in DoD and the fact that they are nearly uncontrolable as it is.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I can't see why not especially since the dragons aren't that smart.

[Dr. Pepper]

I think somewhere is said(most likely in SSM) that dragons, as magical creatures aren`t that easy to warg.

I haven't read this before. I've tried searching for the SSM, but coming up empty. I have seen a lot of people quote an SSM where GRRM allegedly said that dragons have the intelligence of a dog, but I've never seen the source.

This, Since we don't really have any information to rely upon, personally I would think that dragons are an exception since they are creatures of magic.

1. There are also other ways to look at it: size and intelligence

2. Varamyr had trouble warging the bear. It hated and fought him - was this due to size?

3. Varamyr had great difficutly warging the spearwife and failed. Was the fail due to intelligence, or did his body die before he could subdue her?

4. Either way you look at it, a dragon is more than likely intelligent and definitely huge, so it would take a very powerful warg.

1. In the books, the dragons aren't shown to be especially intelligent, pretty much on the same level as a direwolf. They can become familiar with faces and some commands, but they are definitely no White Walker.

2. Varamyr's creatures hated him because he was a terrible master. Varamyr also said that cats were extraordinarily difficult, but Arya slips into the skin of cat almost accidentally.

3. Varamyr was also half dead when he tried to take his second life in Thistle. He ended up dying before it could happen.

4. Dragons are big, but that doesn't mean anything when it comes to warging. Numerous large animals are warged that we see. Size also doesn't necessarily mean intelligence.

There's also speculation about why the Valyrians didn't conquer Westeros (because of skinchangers) and it stems from this Tyrion quote:

The Freehold’s grasp had reached as far as Dragonstone, but never to the mainland of Westeros itself. Odd, that. Dragonstone is no more than a rock. The wealth was farther west, but they had dragons. Surely they knew that it was there

[Mladen]

I haven't read this before. I've tried searching for the SSM, but coming up empty. I have seen a lot of people quote an SSM where GRRM allegedly said that dragons have the intelligence of a dog, but I've never seen the source.

Then I am most likely wrong. But someone somewhere stated that, and it fitted right in what Varamyr said about animals that can`t be warged, so I always thought it`s some sort of accepted truth that dragons can`t be warged so simply.

[juanml82]

We could guess they can be tough to control. But a warg could very well neutralize them on a battlefield. Even if he or she can't seize control of it, the dragon would be fighting the warg instead of the army below, like Thristle was doing. And if a general commanding dragons (Danny or someone else if some dragons are stolen from them) is counting on his/her dragons because he doesn't have enough conventional forces (just like the Field of Fire), that's enough to defeat the side with the dragons.

[manting]

Ice Queen you make good points.

Remember that Varamyr was the strongest warg beyond the wall, and then he meets Jon and he can tell that Jon is stronger. I believe it is Jon that will warg with a dragon and not Bran or Bloodraven because why wouldnt they just warg one now? Isnt proximity a factor? At least the first time you warg an animal I think. I think Jon will certainly warg a dragon - this is after Victarion uses the horn to control the other two and bring them to westeros, along with all of Dany's armies to fight the final battle.

[Dr. Pepper]

Then I am most likely wrong. But someone somewhere stated that, and it fitted right in what Varamyr said about animals that can`t be warged, so I always thought it`s some sort of accepted truth that dragons can`t be warged so simply.

I'm not sure. It's one of those SSM's that gets thrown around fairly often (along with dragons having low intelligence) but I've never seen the source. It's actually on my list of SSMs to search for and I look for these things in my spare time. I haven't put in all that great in effort in searching these particular ones, but maybe group effort will get us closer to finding whether or not it exists? This topic comes up enough that I think it would be beneficial to have a go-to response.

[manting]

Varamyr

Then I am most likely wrong. But someone somewhere stated that, and it fitted right in what Varamyr said about animals that can`t be warged, so I always thought it`s some sort of accepted truth that dragons can`t be warged so simply.

Varamyr says that ALL animals can be warged. It is his teacher that tells him some SHOULDNT be. Abomination!