[BOOK SPOILERS] Theory: Ramsay hunts a Stark in Season 4?

[King Tommen]

This probably doesn't mean much of anything seeing as the show often moves, delays and alters developments when adapting certain chapters but I just noticed that on the show, the scene in the S3 finale around the Small Council table when the Lannisters all gloat over the Red Wedding is extremely faithful to the book chapter (more or less).

One of the major omissions though is when comparing show to book is that in the book, when Tywin lays out to Tyrion what the new score is in the aftermath, he notes that Roose will be the new Warden of the North and that they will marry Ramsay to Arya. He then continues and states that Tyion and Sansa's child will get the North once they are of age. Tyrion of course wonders how the hell that's happening since Arya is surely dead and Tywin just smirks and says that everyone said the same thing about Renly before Blackwater too. This is the first mention of the fake Arya plot in the books.

On the show, all of this information is relayed with the only difference being that any mention of Arya and Ramsay is not there. Like Tywin says the exact same thing about Roose being the Warden of the North and then just skips to Tyrion and Sansa's child being the heir to the North when it comes of age. There's a further scene with Walder and Roose at the Twins where we get a little more of the info dump (one change is that Walder has been awarded Riverrun, not Emmon Frey) which fills in a little bit of the blanks from the Tywin conversation. Walder even asks Roose if he's now going up to Winterfell (presumably to rule from there) and Roose says that he will eventually but it's kind of a smoking crater in the ground at the moment thanks to Ramsay.

So given a couple of opportunities to introduce the possibility of fake Arya within the same timeline as the books, the show consciously avoided doing so. That doesn't mean it can't just be introduced next season, I just found that the dialogue and actions were so spot on from the book chapter, it seemed interesting that they exercised that particular chunk of information.

I guess we'll find out soon enough...

[go joff go]

I think the fake arya plot will be introduced this year. My secret hope is that Bolton (and Frey) will be invited to the PW and that they can kind of cover some of the character building we lost from Bolton not being at Harrenhal with Arya (i.e. leach scene, his feelings on classism) That way he can be in KL and also help hatch the fake arya plot. Also on some level it doesn't totally make sense why Tywin would engage in the fake arya plot, even as repayment to the boltons.

[go joff go]

I think the fake arya plot will be introduced this year. My secret hope is that Bolton (and Frey) will be invited to the PW and that they can kind of cover some of the character building we lost from Bolton not being at Harrenhal with Arya (i.e. leach scene, his feelings on classism) That way he can be in KL and also help hatch the fake arya plot. Also on some level it doesn't totally make sense why Tywin would engage in the fake arya plot, even as repayment to the boltons. My totally crazy idea is that the plot is originally schemed as a fake arya marries Jaimie or some other Lannister only to be undone by Tywin dying with Bolton picking up the pieces. I don't know. It seems like a complicated thing to pull off one way or the other.

[YTDN]

^^They probably haven't introduced it for the same reason they didn't introduce Sansa's Tyrell marriage in her first meeting with Olenna. They like to stagger the introduction of plot points. Also, the way that fArya was introduced in the book- an ambigous line about not having Arya but 'Renly being dead until the Blackwater'- would be too confusing when there's going to be a year gap between the introduction and the payoff, while in the books there are only a few chapters which the reader can read right away. They could have put in exposition I suppose, but again, the year wait until the payoff is too long. Also, fArya wouldn't do much next season except go North. It;s the same reason that they didn't introduce LS this year- she wouldn't have done anything all year. Maybe for the same reason they didn't mention the Freys chucking Cat's corpse in the river, since the viewers will have to remember that info over a year.

I'm not worried about them not introducing the Fake Arya plot, or them using someone other than Jeyne Poole to do it. "Arya's" existance in Winterfell drives the Northern plot in ADWD< and Theon's redemption, and D&D have admitted that Theon's one of their favourite characters- hell, they even thought their original plot in S3 was good, even though most viewers... didn't. (I thought it was a good idea with some great scenes and great acting, but had shite pacing, was dragged out too much and should have been plotted differently). They've already shown themselves able and willing to delay introductions until they are absolutely needed (see the Reeds, and Oberyn Martell next season. Neither of them got a mention until their introduction). And I see no reason why they would use someone other than Jeyne Poole. I know they are cutting minor characters left and right, and the whole Talisa thing happened, but I see no reason why they should change Jeyne for some other girl (Talisa seemed to have come out of them trying to cut away Jeyne Westerlings family, then try and think of a way for her to be on a battlefield alone, then finding a way for her to be 'attractive' to Robb, since the saving-her-honour thing wouldn't work now she's not an official nobelwomen etc.). They might cut out some of Jeyne Poole's backstory, have her just be 'Jeyne', or whatever. And all these theories of other female characters taking her role should have died with Ros and Talisa. I mean, Yara? Seriously??

Yes, I am very defensive of Jeyne Poole (as you can see if you've been following this thread.)

[Ser Luke.]

I think the fake arya plot will be introduced this year. My secret hope is that Bolton (and Frey) will be invited to the PW and that they can kind of cover some of the character building we lost from Bolton not being at Harrenhal with Arya (i.e. leach scene, his feelings on classism) That way he can be in KL and also help hatch the fake arya plot. Also on some level it doesn't totally make sense why Tywin would engage in the fake arya plot, even as repayment to the boltons.

This is also what I'm hoping.

[The King Of Limbs]

I might be in the minority but I loved Theon and Ramsay's storyline this season. Brilliantly acted and really starts the sets up what is going to a great arc in seasons to come. I personally think they could just use any random girl to be Arya. It doesn't have to be Jeyne Poole. People are going to sympathize with a little girl who is being forced to marry Ramsay regardless of who she is, and Theon's heroics will still be just as important.

[YTDN]

I might be in the minority but I loved Theon and Ramsay's storyline this season. Brilliantly acted and really starts the sets up what is going to a great arc in seasons to come. I personally think they could just use any random girl to be Arya. It doesn't have to be Jeyne Poole. People are going to sympathize with a little girl who is being forced to marry Ramsay regardless of who she is, and Theon's heroics will still be just as important.

My point is that if they are going to use a random girl, why not use Jeyne Poole? Her character doesn't have any strings attatched like the Westerlings to Jeyne W., and her 'backstory' can be covered in two sentences.

Or maybe I'm just really attatched to the name Jeyne.

[Ser Luke.]

I might be in the minority but I loved Theon and Ramsay's storyline this season. Brilliantly acted and really starts the sets up what is going to a great arc in seasons to come. I personally think they could just use any random girl to be Arya. It doesn't have to be Jeyne Poole. People are going to sympathize with a little girl who is being forced to marry Ramsay regardless of who she is, and Theon's heroics will still be just as important.

Agreed.

[Nezzer]

It looks like we will see Ramsay hunting women next season. Charlotte Hope, who played one of those whores that Ramsay hired to mess with Theon, said she was taking horseriding lessons for season 4, according to WiC. Can't wait for more of Ramsay evilness :devil:

[Our Blades Are Sharp]

Ooh awesome, glad to see they are including Ramsays ladies

:devil:

[Arkash]

I too loved Ramsay and Reek's arc this season ! I'm confident we will have the hunt for Rickon and that those two storylines will also meet Yara's one (Wex introduced in her crewmembers ?)

[SoManyVows]

I think the fake arya plot will be introduced this year. My secret hope is that Bolton (and Frey) will be invited to the PW and that they can kind of cover some of the character building we lost from Bolton not being at Harrenhal with Arya (i.e. leach scene, his feelings on classism) That way he can be in KL and also help hatch the fake arya plot. Also on some level it doesn't totally make sense why Tywin would engage in the fake arya plot, even as repayment to the boltons.

I expect that in the show that Roose will be the one come up with the Fake Arya plot and pitch it to Tywin. As Tywin told Tyrion in the finale, "Roose Bolton will be named Warden of the North ... until your son by Sansa comes of age". That makes it sound very much as though Tywin is planning for the Bolton's dominion over the North to be a temporary measure, which will be revoked once Tyrion can rule it directly as a Lannister in the name of his heir. After Tyrion is arrested and Sansa flees, Tywin will have lost the opportunity to secure Winterfell directly through a Lannister-Stark marriage (particularly if Jaime has already refused to leave the Kingsguard). The next best option will be to secure Winterfell through a loyal supporter - which Bolton will present himself as. By providing a viable candidate for a Stark marriage that will preserve the illusion of legitimacy (necessary to secure a grudging peace from the other Northern lords), he'll effectively leverage Tywin into making his status as Warden of the North permanent. Tywin may not be happy, but he'll implement the plan because he doesn't have better options available.

Doing it this way would show just shrewd of a political operator Roose Bolton is, increase his notoriety among the audience and position him to take over as 'seemingly omnipotent evil mastermind' slot that Tywin will be vacating at the end of Season 4 (Littlefinger will fill that role too, but Littlefinger's persona is designed to be less overtly threatening than either Roose or Tywin, even though he's probably more dangerous).

[Aeternum]

It looks like we will see Ramsay hunting women next season. Charlotte Hope, who played one of those whores that Ramsay hired to mess with Theon, said she was taking horseriding lessons for season 4, according to WiC. Can't wait for more of Ramsay evilness :devil:

Iwan Rheon is absolutely flayin' this role. I, too, can't wait for scenes of Ramsay's morbid hobbies.

A scene where Ramsay and Roose are reunited would also be interesting - not only because of the characters and their twisted father-son relationship, but also because I want to see how Rheon and McElhatton play it out on the big screen.

[moophasa]

Asha/Yara sailing up the Narrow Sea seems to be a very weird choice that puts her on a collision course with Stannis. However, I can't see that making sense this early on. What sort of storyline will she have if she is captured by Stannis so soon? I had thought that they would have her at Moat Cailin, and then get beaten back by the Bolton forces, leaving her time to return to the Iron Islands for the KM. But this Narrow Sea business complicates matters.

[protar]

Asha/Yara sailing up the Narrow Sea seems to be a very weird choice that puts her on a collision course with Stannis. However, I can't see that making sense this early on. What sort of storyline will she have if she is captured by Stannis so soon? I had thought that they would have her at Moat Cailin, and then get beaten back by the Bolton forces, leaving her time to return to the Iron Islands for the KM. But this Narrow Sea business complicates matters.

Having her captured by Stannis early removes the need to have the expensive Battle of Deepwood Motte and allows her to take the role of Mance's spearwives in rescuing Theon and Farya. For S4 I don't think she'll be doing too much aside from tagging along with Stannis. Perhaps:

• E1: Absent.
  
• E2: Infiltrates the Dreadfort but finds Theon has already left.
  
• E3: Absent
  
• E4: Captured by Stannis' forces.
  
• E5: Presented to Stannis who decides to hold her hostage.
  
• E6/7/8: Absent.
  
• E9: Battle at the Wall. Fights the wildlings and attempts to escape, but fails.
  
• E10: Absent, but mentioned perhaps.
  

[go joff go]

agree with Protar. I mean if she is going to engage in a battle at least be in one that is integrated with other important characters. I think in general any storyline where a major character is wandering by themselves is probably going to be merged with another storyline.

[YTDN]

I agree that she's likely to get captured by Stannis, but I'd hate it if she ends up part of the "Arya" rescue mission. I think it's very important to Theon's character that in the end he chooses to save Jeyne by jumping over the wall all on his own, and having Yara with him (unless they choose to kill her in Winterfell, which could only cause trouble down the line) would ruin that. Also, I really love their reunion scene in Asha's last ADWD chapter, and I'd like to see that preserved in the adaptation.

I'm pretty sure she's going to be stuck as a prisoner of Stannis on his march to Winterfell, as in the books.

[go joff go]

I agree that she's likely to get captured by Stannis, but I'd hate it if she ends up part of the "Arya" rescue mission. I think it's very important to Theon's character that in the end he chooses to save Jeyne by jumping over the wall all on his own, and having Yara with him (unless they choose to kill her in Winterfell, which could only cause trouble down the line) would ruin that. Also, I really love their reunion scene in Asha's last ADWD chapter, and I'd like to see that preserved in the adaptation.

I'm pretty sure she's going to be stuck as a prisoner of Stannis on his march to Winterfell, as in the books.

I don't see the how her being with Stannis earlier changes anything related to Theon.

[King Tommen]

I'll continue to say that matching Yara up with Stannis makes no sense whatsoever. Matching her up with Theon, since that's all they've been setting up in the show for the past season seems to be far more logical.

And there's also that small matter of her stating implicitly on the S3 finale that she's going to the Dreadfort to free Theon.

But let's continue to ignore what's right in front of our noses so that we can hold out hope that Jeyne f'n Poole still gets on the show after us having multiple opportunities to introduce her on the show in the logical spots ignored completely.

[King Zee]

At the end of season one Arya set out for Winterfell. She still hasnt gotten there.

Who says Yara will get anywhere near the Dreadfort.